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Damned if you do...

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July 16, 2018

Question for the audience. Anyone notice a damned if I do, damned if I don’t attitude from the wife as you’re making this journey?

For context, I left for a trip this morning and before I left I checked the truck (her vehicle) to make sure it would start. I’d done some maintenance on it on Friday and the battery had been acting up. It didn’t start (this was at 6 am as I’m out the door) so I threw the charger on it. When I got to my destination I called a neighbor I trust and asked him to pick up a new battery and install for me since I was away. He was happy to help and we had a new battery installed before noon. When I called the wife to tell her he was coming over she threw a fit, said I should have asked her to do it, and complained that she was still in her pajamas. I told her she’d have to change, that this was happening. She continued to rage and, for the first time I can remember, I started laughing. Not at her per se, though I’m sure she thought I was, but rather at her stupid complaints and the fact that 6 months ago I WOULD HAVE asked her and I know she’d have thrown a fit about that. How can you ask me to do that, you caused this you figure out how to fix it, you left me with a bad vehicle etc. She hung up on me, which made me laugh more. When I called later, after a hellish flight, she was snippy with one word answers so I just asked to talk to the kiddo and we had a pleasant conversation.

Is this attitude of you’re always wrong common? I’m assuming the answer will be AWALT but I’m curious. I’ve always complained that she engages in moving goalposts but this was something else. I’m still laughing about it.

Thx in advance.

Post Information
Title Damned if you do...
Author _Try_Try_Again_
Upvotes 9
Comments 46
Date 16 July 2018 12:20 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204211
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8z6dh4/damned_if_you_do/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's something I have learned from dealing with people over the years. If someone likes you, you can do no wrong. Something happens, it's cool, they are chill, they give you space to fix things. If someone doesn't like you, nothing you ever do is right. They just plain don't like your face and even when you get things right, you are still wrong.

Now, how do you get people to like you? I have noticed the biggest difference from lifting and shaving my head. No one likes a fat beta. Doesn't matter that I can be abrasive and a bit of an asshole. I say it with a smile people lap it up.

So, sounds like you are a fat fuck whose wife doesn't like him much.

[–]bowhunter66 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Couldn't agree more. When she is hot for you, you can do anything you want as long as you don't concede the frame when limits are pushed. When she's not into you, you are a piece of shit no matter what you do.

Be attractive, don't be unattractive.

[–]creating_my_life11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy

Anyone notice a damned if I do, damned if I don’t attitude from the wife as you’re making this journey?

The part where she knows she's losing control in the relationship and panics like she's never panicked before? That she's losing control of her carefully managed beta and is now going to have to compete for her own survival?

BTW, good job owning your shit.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Ok, so pretty normal. Thx for that.

I guess I was expecting to be told I’m being a faggot or autistic about it. Weird. The old me would feel bad about upsetting her day, but since she’s always upset at something what’s the difference, right?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]shadowycoder1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

That line of thinking has helped me out a lot the last few weeks. If she's gonna be angry anyway, I might as well just do what I want and shrug off whatever 'consequences' she has lined up for the day. Ah well, the kids and I love having fun.

Nice work, man.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thx. Just got off the phone with her. More one word answers but slightly better tone of voice. Refused to say goodbye after I did. Good thing I’m not on Facebook or she might unfriend me!

Clarity edit

[–]BlackFire681 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She’s going to be angry anyway, so do what YOU decide to do. That’s a mantra that helps me

[–]simbarlionRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

There is an excellent jackten post you should read, summarised as....

"She doesn't want you to fix the problem, she doesn't want to know there was a problem."

Comes back to OYS.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think I’ve read that one. I think you’re right.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is a great sign that you found it funny because, quite frankly, it is!

Keep your foot on the gas... mix in a little comfort here and there.... just so her hamster doesn’t fly off....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent point. Don’t want to go Rambo.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

For an unattractive beta, she’ll move the goal posts on you.

For an attractive alpha, she’ll be a cheerleader who fucks you.

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown!

[–]SepeanRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s called shit testing. This idea that there is that your wife’s behavior is some sort of puzzle with a right answer that makes her happy is downright silly and just shows you haven’t read the sidebar. She’ll shit test you whatever you do.

Her being sweet and submissive is a response to high alpha and SMV, not to you doing what she wants or what is most efficient or whatever blue pill ideas you still have.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

When I called later, after a hellish flight...

This is where you lost frame. She wanted you to own her feelings and you confirmed it by fighting with her.

I would have put her on ignore until she could behave like a good girl.

Captains don't fight with the first officer.

[–]gameoflibidos0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

agreed. never engage in fighting. ever.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I don’t. After reading (and re-reading) NMMNG I’ve gone from not arguing cuz that would rock the boat to not arguing cuz what would it solve. The change in mindset, despite the same actions, has seen results.

[–]gameoflibidos0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

But you just said you did and it was hellish.

The real reason you don't argue is because they always start with her shit testing you and then you fail and she drags you into her explosive emotional bubble frame. Stay in your frame.. that's why you don't argue. Women are like microwave popcorn.. they heat up real fast and start poppin like crazy.. but it only lasts a few minutes.. cools down and then you can hang out with it and watch a movie.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Good advice, but flight wasn’t a typo. I fly for a living.

[–]gameoflibidos0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

ah.. got ya. Totally read that wrong.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All good. Still good advice.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Nope. Actual flight. I’m a pilot.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ah my bad

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When I am in top form ie. non-butthurt attitude, outcome independant, DGAF attitude I get away with anything.

When I am not on top form, everything is a problem. I swear too much, I am not neat enough, drink too much. Every thing.

A woman fills the container she is given. If you get on top of your game you can even leave her stranded by the road with a flat battery and she will make a plan and blow you when you get back.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

As much as you laughed through this...I'm smelling an underlying scent that this bothers you and you care.

So...is your real question: Hey guys are all women like this?

Or is your real question: Hey guys this bothers me...what should I do about her and/or the fact that this bothers me?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy


It bothers me that her default mode seems to be to react negatively to whatever I do. I’ve always seen my wife as a little bit more logical and rational than the women I dated before her. I’m reevaluating.

I think what really bothers me is that I’m still really new to this journey, that I’m not super confident yet, but I’m seeing things improve in fits and starts so I’m continuing. I don’t want my marriage to end because I think there’s still hope for happiness but also because I don’t want to be a failure but then I realize that I mean a failure in other people’s eye so I’m willing to sacrifice my happiness and sanity for other people’s opinions which is complete bullshit.

Fuck I’m a mess.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm thinking 3 levels ahead here but: What if the hope you have for happiness is based on something that doesn't exist? Sure you want a happy marriage with someone...but does she even want a happy marriage with you? What if you were doing this because you thought she actually wanted to be happy with you and you could save face in front of other people...but she doesnt? What if the second you get fed up with her not following, you said "well fuck it...I'm done trying" and she actually says "good, about time". And you realize the happy marriage you wanted with her could never be a thing because she never wanted it. But you didn't see that because you were blind by your fantasy to have one?

But here's the one step ahead answer...because you had enough balls to admit that maybe your question was a little ego defensive and you really wanted an answer to the things you're seeing in your journey: Think of how small a car battery is in the grand scheme of things...and ask if this should bother you. But then think of how big your 1st mate''s buy in is in the grand scheme and ask if that bothers you. Why would you want to stay around if this is the behavior you get?

Now my view might be slightly bias in that some guys on here post that their wives still throw a bitch-fit when they say they're going out for beers for the night. I can't imagine having to even deal with someone like that. Maybe that's the difference not in the way women are...but what some men will accept. But to your point...the WHY she's doing it may be because you're taking the reigns, it could be because she's a bitch that'll never change. You state your boundary and move on either way right? Stay plan = go plan right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, the stay plan is the go plan, but right now the only real plan is to own everything and lift and stfu. I’m still working on my mission.

As for the rest of what you wrote, wow, that’s a lot to digest. I think I laughed at her precisely because the battery was such a small peanuts thing. Im just starting to turn the ship around (like, one or two degrees so far, to follow the boat analogy) and I’m trying to give her the 1000ft rope. I do think that at one point she wanted a happy marriage with me. I also know we’re in the position we are because I abdicated control to her long ago. Cuz she’d know what she needs to be happy, right? (/sarcasm)

I’m holding out hope that she’ll come around, and I don’t want our shittiness to start affecting my kid. There’s a balance of staying beyond the toxic point, and staying to work thru the shit to get to a better situation. I’m going to give this time but last night was the first time I really considered divorce, not so much the act but what my true fears of it were. It wasn’t as bad as I had previously thought.

Thx for your thought. I appreciate them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

your wife criticizes you because she hates you

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Probably true. Should I add “right now” to the end of that?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

if it makes you feel better

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That was from one of the sidebar posts.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

So I called her this afternoon. Short answers about how her day is going and so on. So I asked her if she’s still mad about the battery. She said it was one of many things. Hour plus conversation using the laundry as focus. She’s mad I don’t turn her clothes right side out when I fold them. I said it was disrespectful for anyone to leave it like that and expect someone else to do it for them. And I’m talking jeans turned all the way out with underwear still in the legs. She’s said it’s typical me, cutting corners and blaming others and not being helpful. She’s not wrong here. This is exactly how the old me would think. But it’s not the case now, even if the result looks the same. Her point is that folding the laundry always included turning it right side out since we’ve been married. This is an example of a covert contract for me. When she brought it up a few wks ago, I made my point, she made hers, and I kept doing what I was doing expecting her to get the point and be responsible for her clothes. She saw it as intentional disrespect because she told me how I should be doing it.

It was a stupid thing to use as a focal point but I tried to make it a discussion. Here’s the interesting nugget I got. At one point I agreed to turn it out if she agreed to be mindful of turning her clothes out when she took them off. She made a sarcastic comment, then said that I’m obviously not getting it because I haven’t agreed to do it her way. I called bullshit, that because something is her perspective doesn’t make it right or that I should just bend over and agree with her. That pissed her off but I could tell that she’d never heard that before.

I tried to apply comfort as one of the commenters mentioned. Told her I respected her and I loved her. She said she didn’t care anymore, that she’s barely hanging on, and she doesn’t want to be like this anymore. I’m not in any position to go thru a divorce at this point, and I still don’t want to. She’s a good woman, we’re just going thru this shit.

No specific question, just general advice pls. I’m not trying to blow it up (kill the puppy?) but it seems like she’s right there anyway.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Damn, dude. You need help. I'll sometimes fold my wife's laundry if I have the time and if I feel like it. In the 10 years I have been married, I have never heard my wife bitch and complain about a favor I am doing for her. The moment she complains is the moment I stop doing favors.

Stop doing her laundry right fucking now. If she wants something done right, she can do it herself. Don't say anything about it, just don't do it. If she asks or says something about it, just pressure flip and ask a question in return.

Why didn't you fold my laundry?

What makes you think that's my responsibility?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good, this was my conclusion as well. She said it as if it was her idea, that if I can’t do it ‘right’ then don’t touch her laundry. Done and done.

[–]DeeMooreDeeMarriet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This right here.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I still don’t want to. She’s a good woman, we’re just going thru this shit.

Way to set yourself up to lose.

Specific advice? Identify your covert contract.

Also - why are you doing her laundry? Gay.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This actually came up. When she said ‘you’ve always been like this (a bad partner)” I asked her why she married me. She said she doesn’t know but that she thought I’d change. I told her I thought there’d be more appreciation and sex from her after we got married so obviously we didn’t talk it through enough.

Anyway, the laundry is all mixed together. I do laundry cuz it needs to get done. Just like I load the dishwasher or vacuum. Basic household chores that need doing.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seperate your damn laundry.

[–]robertwservice19740 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like you’re trying to use logic and reason to resolve past issues. Stop talking and start solving problems. “She’s barely hanging on” = she needs a Captain to take action and lead the ship.

When your co-pilot is out of sorts and struggling, what do you do? Have a serious conversation about last week’s rough landing or take action to get things back under control?

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Why would you ever ask her if she is still mad? Dont ASK her to fight?! Some women just have a default "bitchy voice" but if you ask them if they are mad, they may not be, but they sure are now that you let them think you give a shit. Discontinue this immediately.

Laundry: Should have used AA, you missed a good one. "Oh, it's YOUR underwear you are talking about? Phew, I thought you found my sex crazed side chick's g-string. She said she lost them jumping out of the window last week. (Ha ha ha)." Or "You are completely right, I don't know what I was thinking. The only thing to do is severe punishment and no way around it. I'm going to have to tie you up and spank you when I get back." Or "hey, if you want me to put my hand in your panties all you had to do was ask". I can do this all day, I love to turn her shit test into making it seem like she's being slutty or jealous. It works so well on my wife.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, I guess I was looking for a conflict. Not sure we’re at the point where I can just AA the way you put it. We don’t have that kind of rapport yet and why my SMV is a bit higher than hers, she’s already made several comments about how I laugh and smirk. I know that’s part of the plan (yes I do read the sidebar) but I hate seeing her struggle with this. I’m still a faggot.

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just start doing it, the potential fallout is far less serious than you think and better than the continuation of the fight and giving her the power to upset you. Maybe start with "Not my fault, when I see your panties, I just get lost in thought". Something a bit more subtle even than that is do a Homer Simpson and laugh and say "mmmmm... panties". Right now is the best time to start and if she gets mad just shrug and say "it sounded funnier in my head" and laugh again.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I can do that. I guess my intent was to not DEER. Like practice I guess. I’m getting much better at fogging and staying in my own frame. Didn’t get upset at all just kept saying how small this was and how big a deal she was making it. Getting much better at not going into a guilt spiral. Her emotions and happiness are her problem. That kind of thing. Not worth it in the end tho. Thx for your thoughts.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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