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Addressing married finances...?j

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May 9, 2018
8 upvotes

I’m (38 y/o) about 2.5 months into MRP and starting to realize I’m a total noob at this game.

Wife and I have been married for 4 years and common law for almost 15. We have no kids nor do we intend to.

When we got together we were pretty close to even with our incomes. I was in the trades and she in marketing. I had pretty much zero debt and she had a lot with student loans a etc. Over the years we both advanced pretty well evenly in our careers until about 3 years ago when she decided she wanted to quit her job as an Art Director and teach yoga full time as well as pursue starting her own yoga studio. This cut her income in half although she has this last year paid off her student loans. Now I make 100k a year and she sits at about 35k. Up until that point we were splitting all the bills evenly. I started paying more of the bills and running some of her expenses through my business (small stuff like phone bill and dinners out) to allow her some financial support to start her business. We were living in a condo she had previously owned up until last fall when I bought a house and we started renting the condo, which was my choice as I couldn’t stand the condo any more.

So as of now I make about 3x what she does and our combined bills are more than she can afford if were to split them 50/50. She still teaches yoga but the business never materialized.

I was ok to pay more than her with the idea that it would rebalance when her business was running but I’m not comfortable with that being the way forward with no real business progress. I’d be willing if we had kids but not the way we are now. Our expenses are easy for me to afford half or even all but for her it’s not possible to carry half. We’ve had some fights/discussions about it in the past and I’m ready to get shit back on track. She has been half assedly looking for a better paying job in the marketing field for a couple months but I don’t think she has put out any applications. She has expressed the desire to make more and carry her weight but no real progress.

My question is this. I’m working on MRP and I know I have a ways to go and I understand STFU. Should I lay down a deadline for her to get a job that pays a decent wage and start paying the bills or should I just keep working my MAP and wait?

Ultimately I’m really getting uncomfortable with the financial situation continuing but don’t want to fuck up the progress we’ve made so far with my on growth/her response by throwing down an ultimatum. I’m willing to to end the relationship now over this if there is no hope of it changing but I’m seeing some changes in other areas... ultimately I would rather fix the shit I have than burn it down and start over. Should I bring this to a head now or wait till I’m further along with my own shit?


Post Information
Title Addressing married finances...?j
Author suprathepeg
Upvotes 8
Comments 32
Date 09 May 2018 06:57 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204520
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8i8hgt/addressing_married_financesj/
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[–]the_grizzlebee12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

If it was me I'd firmly but calmly put her on a well-defined allowance until she gets a job.

Honestly though? If everything else is good (she puts out, cooks, is on top of her FO duties) and you aren't really hurting for the money, it seems foolish to nuke anything over this.

[–]2ndalRed Beret8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your question doesn't have anything to do with finances. Your question is all about setting boundaries. Do some research on boundaries using search and the MRP sidebar.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I know a decent amount about her now but I don’t know much about you. What are your lifts? What is your BF? Are you interesting? Do you game your wife regularly? Do you have abundance? Do you do anything cool? Are you a self-reliant man? Could you pick up even a fat SAHM at the grocery store if you wanted to?

I’m (38 y/o) about 2.5 months into MRP and starting to realize I’m a total noob at this game.

Never think you aren’t a noob. You always have room to grow, room to learn, and room to improve. The day you don’t is the day you start to die or become beta again. That sounds morbid and dramatic but it’s just a fact.

Wife and I have been married for 4 years and common law for almost 15. We have no kids nor do we intend to.

Much like my comments to another guy, you’ve been with this woman for a long time. I’m assuming you have been a beta pushover for most of this relationship so recognize that you will have a lot of lag in this process. We are looking at least 18 months before she starts to change (if she ever does… which shouldn’t be your “goal”). Stop focusing on changing her. Change you. Then, AFTER you are changed, you will be in a position to expect better out of her and if she doesn't deliver, you can get it elsewhere. Right now, you have nothing to bargain with and probably can't get a yoga enthusiast if you tried. That's why she is acting like this. She knows she owns you. She is right. So improve you.

When we got together we were pretty close to even with our incomes. I was in the trades and she in marketing. I had pretty much zero debt and she had a lot with student loans a etc. Over the years we both advanced pretty well evenly in our careers until about 3 years ago when she decided she wanted to quit her job as an Art Director and teach yoga full time as well as pursue starting her own yoga studio. This cut her income in half although she has this last year paid off her student loans.

Does this mean that she has been paying for her own loans or did you contribute a significant amount? You mention splitting the bills evenly below but did that include the 100 large she brought in?

Now I make 100k a year and she sits at about 35k.

I may catch some shit for this but 100k isn’t a lot these days unless you live in the middle of nowhere where stuff is cheap. What can you do to increase this? Stop focusing so much on her and start focusing on you. If you make over 300k, she can do whatever and it doesn’t really impact you on a practical level for long. Hell, she could divorce rape you and you’d still be sitting more comfortably than 99.9% of Americans. Think about it.

I was ok to pay more than her with the idea that it would rebalance when her business was running but I’m not comfortable with that being the way forward with no real business progress.

What type of Captain have you been up to this point? How much did you guys discuss this transition and were you on board? Did you discuss time frames for how long it would take to get her up and running? Did you discuss what you would or would not pay for through that time period?

If you didn’t, then you may consider eating all this as a sunk cost for you being a dumbass and not putting this stuff in writing. I’m not talking about a legal contract but I am talking about putting it in writing so she can’t hamster out of it as easily 18 months later.

She has expressed the desire to make more and carry her weight but no real progress.

You should definitely judge her by her words and not her actions. Ignore what actually she does and pay very, very close attention to how she feels. Go over those emotions in depth and use lots of words like "I care about that" and "tell me how you really feel." Then, rub her feet a little, wash the dishes, and maybe she will give you a handjob. (This is sarcasm if you are autistic)

My question is this. I’m working on MRP and I know I have a ways to go and I understand STFU. Should I lay down a deadline for her to get a job that pays a decent wage and start paying the bills or should I just keep working my MAP and wait?

Wow. You just said you understand STFU but you then ask if you should get into what will be a massive discussion that will likely unleash nuclear war from her hamster. You are dumb. You are two months into this. Shut the fuck up.

Shut the fuck up especially about the money if you can handle the expenses on your own. You got yourself into this mess. You didn't captain this worth shit.

Seriously. Just eat it and occasionally (starting a few months from now after you have improved a ton) start to tease her about it in a fun way. “Yeah baby, suck that dick like you need to make rent next month.” Shit like that but keep it fun and NOT degrading. Note that in order for it not to be degrading, she’ll need to be attracted to you which may take a while if you are a fatass or autistic in social terms.

Ultimately I’m really getting uncomfortable with the financial situation continuing but don’t want to fuck up the progress we’ve made so far with my on growth/her response by throwing down an ultimatum.

You haven’t made any progress yet. You just started this. Anything you see as “progress” is a mirage that a single wet fart could dispel. Keep your damn head down and put in the work. STFU. Read. Lift. Eat clean. Lurk here.

I’m willing to to end the relationship now over this if there is no hope of it changing but I’m seeing some changes in other areas... ultimately I would rather fix the shit I have than burn it down and start over. Should I bring this to a head now or wait till I’m further along with my own shit?

This isn’t something worth ending the relationship over unless she is completely toxic in other areas. Somehow though, you’ve managed to make this entire post about her and be in her frame without really giving us any information about you or her that is actually actionable.

So here’s my advice:
A. Start posting in the weekly OYS and follow the common format.

B. Read, lift, eat clean, lurk, etc.

C. Don’t engage with her. Read the Jack10 post on “verbal intercourse is optional” about 75 times to learn how to disengage tactfully from her.

D. Improve yourself so you don’t suck so much. Get fit and make enough money that it doesn’t matter what she does. Sorry but 100k isn’t enough.

E. Give it 2 years of you becoming the best you that you can be and refocus on the relationship after that.

Frankly, if you become a badass after two years, you might have a yoga enthusiast that is desperate to please your every desire who also pulls in 35k+ per year. If you are making good coin, that’s actually a damn nice situation to be in.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What value does she provide? At -$65,000, you sure could buy a lot of pussy, hire a maid, and a cooking service.

Why would she make up the difference, sounds like a pretty sweet gig.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stay at home wife and no kids... stop paying for her entitled life and start protecting yours.

Divorce rape due to income inequality is real.

Stop being the beta mule to her fantasy life.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

We have no clue what your financial plans are. Obviously you need a budget to achieve your goals and it might mean putting her on an allowance. My wife gets $300 per week. She spends it then she’s got nothing until the next week. Period. However without goals and just saying “spend less” ain’t gonna end well.

[–]Fritz_Frauenraub1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

300? Wow, you're generous. Mine gets 120 and regularly gets docked for shenanigans.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not that generous. The $300 includes gas and groceries.

[–]RelativeJellyfish2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't understand. How is she costing you money? Sounds like you partially funded a business venture that failed. But you chose to live in a house vs the condo. Are you including the condo profit into her salary?

Marriage is not a financial partnership, it is not a business. Either you like being with her or you would rather not.

When my SO and I first started living together, the essential expenses (i.e., rent, food, utilities) were split on a pro rata basis (basically, if I bring in 2/3rds of our total money, then I pay 2/3rds of our total bills). Now she works part time since we have kids and everything is commingled.

Seriously, life moves differently for different people. You are having a hard time adjusting since all you see are dollars. She is actually living her life. Give up the equal stance on money. If you are paying all the bills and have nothing left over, then move or cut your bills. You are being a selfish prick if you are forcing her to stop "doing something she loves" just to bring in more money. Shoulda married a rich widow.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wrote a post recently that might help you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

My question is this. I’m working on MRP and I know I have a ways to go and I understand STFU. Should I lay down a deadline for her to get a job that pays a decent wage and start paying the bills or should I just keep working my MAP and wait?

what do you want

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I’d like for her to at least pay her half. Obviously if she could make more so I don’t have to work would be good too. Jk

Ultimately I just want us to be partners on the financial side where I’m not bleeding cash so she can follow her whims without any responsibility.

I guess my question is about timing.

[–]wkndatbernardus2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're butt hurt that she actually took you up on YOUR offer to fund her business venture that then (surprise, surprise) shit the bed. What was your contingency plan if it failed? Did your wife seem like a strong entrepreneur when you agreed to pay for her to follow her "dream"? Did she seem comparable to that bitch on Shark Tank such that you would entrust your financial future to her?

Dog, you have one person to blame for this financial mismanagement and he's staring right back at you in the mirror. What's done is done, however so, now it's time to learn from your dumbassery and either lower your expenses so she can meet her half or make her get a higher paying job. I'm guessing the former will be a lot easier. Oh, and don't invest in some trick's dream again unless she wants to be the First Lady.

[–]FFDGTDS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

OP, I have to agree with u/wkndatbernardus, you allowed this to happen.

You said she owned the condo. Are you factoring in the income from the rental of the condo, the active and passive appreciation in the condo, as well as the increase in equity that could allow you to buy an additional condo which could also be rented, when you are figuring out her financial contribution?

Once the equity is sufficient in the condo, she could use that equity to purchase another rental property (duplexes are great for this). Condos can have hidden expenses, that can really eat into your cash flow and equity. Keep using built up equity to purchase other properties and consider this her contribution, if the initial investment is from her condo.

If you are in the trades, you could become the property manager and save even more money as well as increase value with upgrades.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

is it something you'd be willing to leave her over?

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If it’s never resolved then likely.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Apparently shit is not working out financially.

Instead of crying to us, fix it yourself

You have one life to live and it needs to be on your terms

I don't give a fuck what you or she makes, for MRP to work for you, you must treat her in that aspect as her pulling her fair share, and apparently, to you, she is not, so make the changes necessary to follow your mission in this area and stay in frame

You lifting ?

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol yes lifting.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Why are you renting out the condo as opposed to just selling it. If you sell after having used it as your primary residence for 2 of the last 5 years, you wouldn't pay taxes on up to $500k of gains on the sale. What is the rent vs expenses and the market value of the condo? Was it her idea to rent...if so, for feelz or for logical reasons?

Contrary to popular belief, owning rental property just for the sake of owning rental property isn't a good idea. Is it profitable vs selling and doing something else with the proceeds? Is it a hassle, or do you use a property manager?

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The local condo market crashed after she bought and it was a shit buy when she bought it. It’s by no means a desirable rental property but renting pays the costs and we gain the principal. It’s the best of a shit situation.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So is it under water? Would you at least break even on a sale?

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No we would lose $.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

i'm going to cast a line out for downvotes here, so brace yourself.

You're doing it wrong.

Income is one of MANY factors in which your wife is adding value to your life. You need to maximise your combined wealth, and remember wealth is not just money - you say she owns her condo?? that you were living in???? I balk every time i read you all posting about separating finances, but i am not in US and my wife earns more so take it with a grain of salt. I add way more to my family than the difference in our income.

Do you know FOR SURE, the yoga studio won't ever get to the point of franchising into a mega chain? Is MAKING your wife get some desk job she hates so much she gets depression and finds "other" sources of excitement in her life a good idea?

Lifes short buddy. why don't you back her yoga studio? Don't you believe in her?

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I did back the studio idea financially, with my physical efforts and emotionally but it never materialized so I backed out. I feel like was putting more into it than her and it’s her dream. I think it was an excuse to quit a job she didn’t like and just work as a teacher.

I don’t care about the lost money and effort on my part other than feeling played. There more details but it all ends at the same place.

I’m finding it hard after being exposed to red pill to find her an attractive partner...

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m finding it hard after being exposed to red pill to find her an attractive partner...

Well here is your problem. Talk about a buried lead. You're using frustration over finances to hide the fact that you have cold feet.

Can't help you without more info on this front......

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I balk every time i read you all posting about separating finances

i tend to agree with this sentiment; and i used to do this. the only valid reason to do it IMHO is your wife has no control; and keeping her away from your money is the only way to keep her from spending you into oblivion.

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s not overly complex. I just have a new perspective where I think I’m more valuable to her with what I bring to the table than she is to me. No doubt I let some of this happen and even encouraged it unwittingly.

Thing is she works really hard at whatever she does but it’s like being the hardest working burger flipper at McD’s, the return on her investment is so low.

[–]pathetic190 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Why are you uncomfortable? You are in a great position, you want to be the one earning much more, not the other way around. Bills/living expenses should be split according to income percentage, it's only fair really. I can see how you didn't sign up for this, and finances are worth breaking up over, but that's when they are racking up tons of debt and becoming a liability, not really the case here since she paid off her loans right?

[–]suprathepeg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Student loans yea, she has never been debt free though. She is always at her max debt load (thankfully the condo and her income level keep the amount she can borrow low, like a few grand) I just wish she felt the same financial responsibility I do.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's not a logisitcal problem, you've planned it this way. I'll bet she wanted the additional lifestyle upgrades, right? She couldn't afford, but you could, so you agreed. What you agreed to was paying for the upgrade. Now after its too late to change your mind, you found out you accepting something was against your best interests.

Ultimately I’m really getting uncomfortable with the financial situation continuing but don’t want to fuck up the progress we’ve made so far with my on growth/her response by throwing down an ultimatum.

Ultimatums are from a position of weakness. What it sounds like you want is for her to give you permission to act in your own best interests. Instead of that, have an end goal in mind, ignoring other people, something 100% selfish. Then work towards that.

Our expenses are easy for me to afford half or even all but for her it’s not possible to carry half.

also, check out /u/firetempered post on gaining back the treasury. It's not 100% applicable, but is worthwhile

[–]MRP-post500 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What's your MAP? How does the spending affect your plan?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

How far does 135k take you toward the lifestyle you want? Does the missing 65k significantly impact your daily life?

Unless your finances are straight and the missing money still hurts due to cost of living in your city, you're way to new to be making demands of anyone.



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