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If a woman leaves the workforce to raise kids a "postnup" should be signed to assure a comfortable future for the women if the marriage fails at the expense of the man. WTF?

[deleted]

January 3, 2014
65 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Title If a woman leaves the workforce to raise kids a "postnup" should be signed to assure a comfortable future for the women if the marriage fails at the expense of the man. WTF?
Author

[deleted]
Upvotes 65
Comments 109
Date January 3, 2014 1:15 AM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1u9vf6/if_a_woman_leaves_the_workforce_to_raise_kids_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/if-a-woman-leaves-the-workforce-to-raise-kids-a.231868
https://theredarchive.com/post/231868
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Comments

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lolno.gif

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 76 points77 points78 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

"I'm not quitting my job to raise this baby unless you sign a contract promising me lots of shit when I divorce you!"

"No."

"Fine. I'm divorcing you and taking a lot of shit."

What's the point of this again?

[–]Lipophobicity 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

My thoughts exactly, anyone dumb enough to sign this deserves the motel room they live in. Also, fuck cnbc for this pandering garbage

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Letesse 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

"take care of kids"...oh fuckin no, thats horrible, what has the world come to!...wait, the're your own kids?..eewww! Typical feminist thinking, we can't "give anything up", there must be no consequences to our actions. Sickening.

[–]Gorgonzola54 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah I guess taking care of your own kids is a pretty big burden that deserves a large payout.

That's how it works right?

[–]SocialDarwinist 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Getting married is basically giving up your independence.

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, they throw out prenups all the time, when the woman bawls a bit that she can't get as much as she is entitled to.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Women have all the power in whether or not they have children. Far more choice than men... Men get "keep it in your pants." Don't act as if it is something happening TO you, you chose to leave the workforce.

The point is, divorce already caters to women... now they want a fucking contract that guarantees it to them just in case.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Women have all the power in whether or not they have children.

Because you just can't help yourself?

Men have power in this as well, they should stop whining and use it. Don't have kids with the woman unless you specifically choose to do so. This isn't rocket science.

Every month (at least) there's some sob thread in askreddit about how the woman got pregnant, didn't tell the guy, then aborted his kid. Well what do you expect when you fuck a woman who would murder her unborn child? It's not as if she raped you, you could have chosen to not make her pregnant.

And don't give me any bullshit about how you didn't know she'd do that... don't be fucking women unless you know that they wouldn't.

These are the things that we need to be teaching our sons (and let's be honest... our daughters).

Don't act as if it is something happening TO you, you chose to leave the workforce.

Anyone who thinks that you can have kids with both parents working fulltime with no issues... they're fooling themselves. If you want to drop a newborn off in daycare, have fun in a few years when it gets attachment disorder.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men have power in this as well, they should stop whining and use it. Don't have kids with the woman unless you specifically choose to do so. This isn't rocket science.

I already addressed this above... see: "Keep it in your pants." In case it wasn't blatantly obvious that I clearly understand the topic.

Well what do you expect when you fuck a woman who would murder her unborn child?

Oh Jesus... lol.

Anyone who thinks that you can have kids with both parents working fulltime with no issues... they're fooling themselves.

I didn't claim this at all... I actually just told you that it would be your choice to have a child and leave the workforce.

Is there a point at all in your response here? I don't feel like you refuted any of my points... just kind of ranted all over the comment box.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Men have no financial independence in a marriage, and you know it. We are essentially financially responsible for our wives in perpetuity, even if they divorce us. So go cry me a fucking river on how 'unfair' the system is to you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Is this a trick question? If you say that the partner who can choose to stay at home and live off the other is giving up their financial independence, then you're working off a different definition of independence than the rest of us.

[–]MizukiAkane 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't independence mean that they don't have to rely on someone else? If you're staying at home and relying on your SO to earn you money, you're not financially independent. What's your definition of independence?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Going by that definition, nobody is truly independent. Even the man is dependent on his job and maintaining his performance at work.

It's different from kids and parents, in which case kids are truly dependents because they literally can't go out and start earning enough money. Whereas an adult woman usually can and just chooses not to, in favor of letting hubby go out and work.

[–]turnballZ 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Someone had a story due at CNBC.com and this was the best crap they could come up with. Yes divorce courts already handle this sort of challenge quite successfully.

[–]Aaron565 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

By: Jeff Landers.

If I were rich, that motherfucker would be payed a visit tonight. This sort of stuff needs to be discouraged.

[–]rarlcove 29 points30 points31 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

He's a disgrace to his gender. It's male enablers like this who allowed feminism to become such a problem.

[–]AminalBones 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are we even sure that "Jeff" is a guy?

[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

why is feminism a problem?

[–]Glorious_Master 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

creates difficult to solve problems and ruins lives? just a manifestation of female hysteria given a political body? srsly...

[–][deleted] -18 points-18 points-18 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[–]1 TRP SupporterFred_Flintstone 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

77 cents per dollar stat ignores many things: most major being that men simply are more likely to be financially motivated. Look at which gender starts companies which is where real money is made. Who is becoming a quant etc.

A more fair statistic would be the median salary of twenty somethings from each gender. And women now outearn men in that regard.

This is the tip of the iceberg of it all, please read more before posting here. I only answered as you post in seddit

And we tend to talk about third world third wave feminism rather than feminism here, many disagree with Saudi Arabia on some issues.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Typical sedditor, fucking male feminists.

[–]Glorious_Master 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. lets just assume the bullshit 77cent argument was right, how is this my problem? oh don't let me guess, I need to check privilages that are given to me by the patriarchs every year in their north pole gatherings so I keep telepathically oppressing women with my 7.5inch antenna.

  2. I got beat down and had the attackers walk away, I had a female neighbor trash my apartment and walk away. do you honestly think I care about two drunkards taking this or another position and how they rationalize it?

like seriously I'm actually a moralist guy who believes in active justice I just really fail to see past this wall of bullshit no matter whats the angle.

yeah feminism will magically make china unpolluted and disband the commie party let snot forget whos behind every orwellian law these days.

idk get a pepper spray, stop inflating your self worth and put some tent on your face if you don't want to be raped and stop being such a liability to every company that hires you. and society at large.

[–]rarlcove 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The pay gap thing is a myth. Women on average choose to work less hours and do lower paying jobs. In this day and age there's nothing stopping them from getting more high-icnome jobs if they wanted them, but they don't.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Only it hasn't been debunked, as even accounting for factors such as experience, education, industry, and hours, among others, a substantial gap persists. (Section A.1. for ease of reference) And even if women only earn ten or twenty cents less than men on the dollar, wouldn't that still need to be changed? Also, what of the second part of my comment? Once again, I don't like annoying tumblr feminists, but real feminism that prevents rape in situations like these and educates men and women about how to respect each other as equal creatures is good, yes?

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I suspect you're trolling, but i'll answer you seriously anyways. Because it's fair and you're a basically decent human being? Not everything that benefits one person over another is good. Slavery in america (and around the world, but i'm using a race specific example to make it easier to conceptualize) is the easiest and most commonly known example, so I'll use that. Should black people still be enslaved if it would benefit me, a white guy? No, not only because it's a terrible crime against humanity because it's not right for one group to have that much of an advantage over another, at the expense of the liberties and happiness of the other group. "All men are created equal", and that can be stretched to apply to women too.

[–]1FloranHunter 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Are you trolling or just stupid? The wage gap myth has been extensively debunked.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Only it hasn't been debunked, as even accounting for factors such as experience, education, industry, and hours, among others, a substantial gap persists. (Section A.1. for ease of reference) I'm neither trolling nor stupid, and even if women only earn ten or twenty cents less than men on the dollar, wouldn't that still need to be changed? Also, what of the second part of my comment? Once again, I don't like annoying tumblr feminists, but real feminism that prevents rape in situations like these and educates men and women about how to respect each other as equal creatures is good, yes?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That report is incredibly biased. It cited vast female privilege like 2/3 of pell grants going to women as a good thing. uh lol?

Then it says

this gap only widens over the course of women’s careers, in part because women are more likely to take time away from work to care for their families. As men gain experience in the labor force, their wage gains typically exceed those experienced by women

Basically it states, "Women like to slack off, now lets whine about how much less money they make because of it". The truth is a bit different - they are doing work but of another unpaid sort but effectively the same.

But lets not ignore that pretty much every 3rd party ever has stated that the gap doesn't exist. Pretty much the only ones that show a wage gap exists are the ones which have political backers. Those politically backed ones then can't even agree on how much the gap is. It is .73:1 or .88:1?

It's been 15 years since this report was published which basically points out every error in the 'official' politically backed reports, even the ones published in 2013. Shit, the link I provide even references the exact wording of the link you provided as an example - from 15 years in the past.

On the one hand, the White House has said that “the gap is, in part, attributable to differing levels of experience, education and skill. However, even after accounting for these factors, a significant pay gap still remains between men and women in similar jobs.”

then further down

Recent studies confirm that, in fact, compensation disparities are largely -- if not entirely -- attributable to factors other than employer discrimination. Specifically, 10/ these studies confirm that compensation disparities are based largely on the differences in average levels of experience and tenure, years and type of education, hours of work, and industry and occupation:

and finally in the conclusion

the EEOC must not lose sight of the fact that the compensation disparity is the product of many forces, the large majority of which are societally motivated and economically oriented and not the result of illegal employer discrimination.

So what does this mean? It means since the majority of potential voters are women and that if you examine the likelihood per potential voter women are more likely to vote you indeed should skew your politicized reports to garner favor with the dominant group. Or as XKCD put it,well then now we have a problem.

[–]xkcd_transcriber 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Original Source

Title: Beliefs

Title-text: Scientists are also sexy, let's not forget that.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 21 time(s), representing 0.28% of referenced xkcds.

Questions/Problems | Website

[–]1FloranHunter 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It looks like they control for hours by controlling for fulltime vs parttime. This is merely a subtle lie: men who work fulltime average more hours than women who work fulltime. This is not a trivial factor.

It is notable that they are controlling for many factors but never control for discrimination directly. No matter what number they provide, it can only be an upper limit on how much of the pay gap is due to discrimination.

It is also likely, though I didn't specifically check, that when they say "industry" they group together very different jobs. As much as pediatricians would like, they are not as valuable to others as are heart surgeons. Their jobs are easier, require less skill, and have much more flexible hours. Yet they occupy the same industry.

Women, when asked their career priorities, value flexible hours much more than do men. Men overwhelmingly value pay. Women cannot fairly be paid as much as men if they also have more pleasant jobs than men. If you really care about pay discrimination then you should seek to convince women to take jobs they don't want so they can earn more money. It won't actually help them since they will just seek men who yet earn more than them (as you should be aware, by now) but it will close the gap.

even if women only earn ten or twenty cents less than men on the dollar, wouldn't that still need to be changed

Only if that were due to discrimination. To the best of my ability, I have found that it is likely that women are less able than men to aggressively negotiate higher pay as a matter of gender roles. This accounts for about a 2% pay gap that could bear change.

Since the gap is due to individual choice and preference, it's perfectly fine. It's not like women are systematically kept from pursuing positions of prestige, wealth and power. They're encouraged where men are ignored. But women know, because they're not stupid, that easier paths are available to them. A woman can go to art school and marry an engineer because her husband also knows, because he is not stupid, that he has to take the hard path of studying engineering because he will never marry above his station. Female hypergamy isn't an idle curiosity. What women value, men emulate.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We're talking about feminism as it pertains to the West; in less developed countries they still need the equivalent of first and second wave feminism.

As for the wage discrepancy, none of that is due to oppressive forces. It's a combination of the fact that women don't work as long, pursue as much experience, or seek employment in lucrative fields as men do. A woman with the same experience and qualifications as a man earns as much as he would.

All of this requires women to take on accountability and personal responsibility, which is something they are notoriously bad at. It's much easier to blame external factors. As someone noted below, women in their 20's out-earn men right now. Funny how that fact isn't perpetuated anywhere.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah that's a different kettle of fish entirely, I thought when feminism is referenced it was the feminism most of the world refers to, not the tumblr sjw feminism that is ever so annoying. However, even accounting for factors such as experience, education, industry, and hours, among others, a substantial gap persists. (Section A.1. for ease of reference) And even if women only earn ten or twenty cents less than men on the dollar, not the full 33, wouldn't that still need to be changed?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They conveniently add the term "among others" without specifying what. I guarantee they fail to note female desire. Women simply gravitate to fields that don't pay as much. From your article:

Women and girls across America are benefiting from efforts to promote Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Implying that they don't normally pursue such degrees. Men have no such incentives available to them, and despite the fact that women account for 60% of college students they are vastly under-represented in STEM fields. That's because they don't desire those industries.

Look at this article. Women dominate 9 out of the 10 lowest paid fields (e.g. child-care worker, library assistant). This has everything to do with choice, not oppression.

This is the problem with third-wave feminism. Women are leveraging it to get free handouts instead of doing exactly what men are doing. It has nothing to do with oppression. Women dominate colleges, they out-earn their male colleagues in their 20's, they have all kinds of incentives and female quota-requirements in workplaces, and 90% of HR staff are female. And yet they still earn less than men.

Women already have the massive upperhand when it comes to getting ahead. They just don't want to do the things men will do. Dangerous jobs are overwhelmingly male-dominated. Note that 95% of workplace deaths are men. Dirty jobs like garbageman are also male-dominated. Women simply don't want these jobs.

[–]SpankThatDill 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Leave here while you still can

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, but I don't understand. Are you saying if I stay I'll become trapped?

[–]iggybdawg 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll sign after I add a clause that she gets nothing if she committed sexual abandonment..

[–]Lipophobicity 27 points28 points29 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Hey take a peek at where this author earns his money:

http://www.bedrockdivorce.com/about.php

"About Bedrock Divorce Advisors The financial half of a woman’s divorce team

Based in New York City, Bedrock Divorce Advisors exclusively advises affluent women throughout the United States before, during, and after divorce."

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol shameless. How do these fuck heads sleep at night

[–]KJL13 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably very well in their mansion/multi million dollar penthouse.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck, you are right! "Jeff Landers" is plastered all over that page top to bottom.

[–]Laughing_Jelly_Bean 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I can't imagine anyone signing something like that. There's no leverage to make the man sign.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the man, I'm sure there's tons of Beta Bucks out there who'd sign in a hurry if their girl threw out an ultimatum.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But it's only duress when she does it!

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't choose to reproduce with such a woman. Nor should she choose to have my children if she thinks I'm such a lowlife that I'd not take care of my kids.

[–]Glorious_Master 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ive seen just this guy, he basically signed his entire life away for one of the wall-sluts when he got married in age 30. is a fucking doctor of chemistry and seems not to even realize what is wrong with the fact he wastes his life away working overtime while the divorce letter is being planned probably already.

he is all over him, while she is mostly polite. he bought at her nagging life insurance on himself, and was spending a whole week boasting how much money will she get if he was to die not even getting the jokes that were raised about how its beneficial for him to go. "but it will be insurance fraud!"

I mean you would expect this to be some decade problem or a minority-case problem and than we will all learn and it will be curbed down. but it get worse....

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Threat of divorce where it'll happen anyway?

[–]Laughing_Jelly_Bean 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ha! Exactly.

[–]bearlamp 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For some, all it would take is the pussy that got them there in the first place.

[–]MockingDead 30 points31 points32 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Two reasons why this article doesn't matter:

  1. Don't get married
  2. See rule 1.

One reason this article matters:

Maybe it will convince those failing to follow rule 1.

[–]DatBoobGuy 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't even matter if you get married. If you live with someone long enough they're still entitled to half your shit.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That flavor of divorce-rape depends on your state or country's common laws. Just be aware of them and act accordingly

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Only a few states have common law marriage and they all require you to hold out to the public that you are married.

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A lot of people do live in Canada, where common law marriage rules are completely fucking insane.

[–]turnballZ -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That sounds aboot correct

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]MockingDead 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why my code compiler hates me.

[–]mrpoopistan 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

From a legal perspective, if you can get someone to sign a highly disadvantageous agreement, why not do it?!

If he's fucking dumb enough to sign it, more power to her.

[–]Clauderoughly 22 points23 points24 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

because the courts will toss it, if it dis advantages the woman.

Same with pre nups.

[–]mrpoopistan 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Every agreement is subject to potential litigation. That's just life in a so-called civilized world.

[–]mussedeq 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, it makes sense for a married guy to do it, because he already signed one before: a marriage license.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Never gonna marry! MGTOW! Fuck dat shit fellas.

[–]fuckingkike 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

So the guy gets sole custody of the kid in this "compensated for giving up her prime earning years to have a kid" scenario and there will be mandatory paternity testing, right?

I'm not entirely sure how this particular agreement is supposed to work, but getting things settled in pre and postnups is hardly a bad idea.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It should work in theory, but the insane family law courts ensure that it won't ever be applied fairly in actual real life.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It's just another shit test. If a woman so much as mentions this while I'm dating her (as a potential wife), she gets demoted to plate status at best.

[–]fuckingkike 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's not a shit test. Providing for children and protecting investments are legitimate concerns. Contracts like this just give you specific recourse for mediation or litigation should something go wrong.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

In other words, a western marriage

[–]fuckingkike -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You do know what happens in divorce right?

[–]fuckingkike 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, goody. I'm talking to a moron.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol ok man.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Again I'm at a loss for words but since I will never fall for that shit i'm safe.

[–]Stopher 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the author is a lawyer.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The contract is dumb but the basic idea is fair.

If get married(don't want to argue this) then have kids and decide she should stay home to take care of them that is a huge risk on her part for financial independence. She is stopping her progress in the workforce and her skill set can diminish in value become outdated. While the husband is not risking this.

If a divorce happens as a result of the husbands fault he should continue to support her until she can get back on her feet, which realistically might take many years.

[–]AminalBones 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Isn't that called Alimony?

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is already covered on the biased family court system.

[–]Glorious_Master 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

taking step one towards marriage predation.

she needs apostnup for more stuff

why stop there? get a life insurance on him and have him killed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thats what Thai bitches do...force you to get insurance then they hire a hitman on retainer.

[–]Glorious_Master 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

how is this different from bounty on your head?

like yeah except the fact that the wife gets it.

they must have been so fucked up all their life that they feel validated through being walking atms.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats exactly how they made me feel, like a walking ATM. I had fun because I figured it out and just pumped and dumped.

[–]classicjimmy 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Another example of women living in modern society. They want all of the equality with none of the responsibility. As a kid who grew up with 2 working parents, I can say as living proof there is absolutely no reason why a woman should need to quit her job in order to raise kids.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Isn't this called alimony?

[–]jokersmild 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What a Dick.

[–]bearlamp 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reason #467 for why I don't want to get married or have children.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A woman's child-rearing years are usually her highest-earning years.

There's no mistaking the cruel timing here. For most women, the phase of life devoted to child-rearing and the phase of life devoted to corporate-ladder-climbing tend to overlap.

FALSE. Regardless of when a woman decides to have children her earning potential plummets once she can no longer work the hours a single man can.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

I dunno this one kinda makes sense.

[–]MahlerNinth 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

How so? If the wife chooses to stay at home, the husband's work and leisure patterns have to adapt to provide. Think about this in labor economics terms:

  • the husband needs to work more hours (sometimes multiple jobs) in order to make up lost income that the wife does not earn
  • the husband's time is focused more on work, less on leisure

So the husband makes a great deal of economic sacrifices in terms of workload when the wife stays at home and raises the child. Why should a postnup then effectively penalize him for making these additional sacrifices for the family?

Marriage is basically a flawed institution that makes it expensive/nearly impossible for a man to veto a relationship, but gives women an incentive to veto a relationship. This just increases the inequality in that dynamic and makes marriage even more costly for a man, while making the prospect of divorce even more lucrative for a woman.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I see your point. What I saw that made sense is the hidden opportunity cost for the wife of her career growth. By being a stay at home mom she is forgoing career growth that she cannot get back. And in addition to that, there is a period of time where she must devote herself to raising the kid, and truly cannot work. I think it is fair to say that she can bear the brunt of her lack of career growth so long as the man is 100% liable for the economic sustenance of a woman for around four to six years after he gets her pregnant. I think that laws to that effect would produce much less fucked up children. Because a woman makes the decision of whether to be a mother, and needs to deal with that choice. But at the same time it is critically important to make sure that the both the kid and the mom actually gets their economic needs cared for.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is where feminism fails. Everything, but everything comes with an opportunity cost, and career growth is not the be all, end all of life.

While the guy is ostensibly growing his career*, he is missing out on all the magical moments of parenthood, he may not be there to see his kid's first steps, to guide his kid as he would like to, or to take his kid to the playground as often as he would like. Where's the compensation for that?

* - Growing his career assumes that he is not in a dead end job to begin with. Not all men are executives earning beacoup bucks while his wifey sits waiting for him at home.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

While you are right, it is also true that all opportunity costs are not equal, and some are more threatening than others. The fact of the matter is that without some provisions for alimony and child support we would have homeless mothers and children and kids who would grow up in very fucked homes. While feminism goes too far, we do still need to take care of the stay at home parent. Hell, if its the man who decides to stay home and the woman who works it still makes sense to subsidize the stay at home parent. It's not a gender thing, its a kids are expensive and time consuming as fuck thing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

And right now we have homeless men and fucked up kids who are raised by selfish moms and their fucked up bad boy boyfriends. I wonder if that really is better. Want to ask the projects how they feel about it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

What does that have to do with what were telling about? Ghetto culture doesn't mean we should just say "fuck find children!" And get rid of child support laws.....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Do you think that when a society rewards something or removes the natural punishment from it, that it'll get more of it? i.e., do you or do you not get more of the behavior that you incentivize?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

When you incentivize behavior you get more of it sure. But that is a silly argument in this case because you can just write the law to only benefit the mother as long as she makes good choices. You can both take care of kids and incentivize responsible behavior. That's what annoys me about my fellow libertarians. They don't understand that welfare isn't inherently disincentivizing. It depends on the rules and requirements to get that welfare. It incentivizes shitty living in this country cuz the laws are just poorly written. A woman who has 5 kids but can't afford one isn't prosecuted for child abuse, that's a problem, let's legally fuck up the irresponsible parents and then people will behave themselves better.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you. Now let's rewrite the laws so that women who frivolously divorce don't get the whole house and tax-free money every month, and every slut that spreads her legs for unprotected bad boy seed can't withdraw from an account funded by normal, tax-paying citizens.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Marriage is basically a flawed institution that makes it expensive/nearly impossible for a man to veto a relationship

The institution itself is not flawed. The people are. Sometimes the man is a lowlife... we should be honest and admit that they're out there. Sometimes the woman is. Sometimes both are.

The tricky part is when it's only one or the other... you see, while the man may be a lowlife, what's that say about the woman that she'd get married to the lowlife? The most generous assessment is that she's a really shitty judge of character and/or makes bad, impulsive decisions.

And that goes for the men who marry lowlife women, they too are shitty judges of character.

The institution of marriage isn't what's at fault here, it can hardly be expected to cover for personality flaws as serious as those.

This just increases the inequality in that dynamic and makes marriage even more costly for a man,

Flawed logic. In the scenario you describe, it's not as if the wife gets to keep her money or her leisure either, so it's equally costly for both.

The real trouble here is that we're talking about men who want no children and either make it clear or who make it obvious without actually saying so, and the women who think such men should have children. Quite clearly something is pathologically broken with those men to the point that it interferes with their desire to reproduce. That a woman would want children with that... something's broken with her too.

Probably has alot to do with mommy and daddy divorcing 25 or 30 years ago, one has a pathological aversion to (being) daddy, and the other one has daddy issues but just not enough to go into a career as a porn star.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Marriage 2.0 is a fucked up institution.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Does the woman pay the man for having to work and not being able to be around his kids? No! Well they should but its a double standard. Man I'm so glad I took the red pill and woke up. FUCK THIS SHIT all I want is clean safe tail.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Actually if a man is the stay at home parent then in a divorce he is the one that gets child support from the woman. Which is as it should be. It's not about gender, it's about the kid and about what the stay at home parent has to sacrifice to care for that kid.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's not what I mean. I want to man who works outside the home to be compensated for the time he's lost from bustin his ass at work and missing out on the time with his child. I know it'll never happen but to me its the same difference.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I see your point. I agree. Both parties do sacrifice something do both should get something back.

[–]PerniciousOne -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I had a wife and she came to me with a post-nup, I would say sorry you need to have the child, and get back to work immediately. We can have the child in day-care.

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