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HD/LSE Wife... any tips?

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June 13, 2019
13 upvotes

After re-reading Practical Female Psychology, I've become more and more convinced my wife falls under the "HD/LSE" (high sex drive/low self esteem) category the authors talk and warn about. In particular, she can take it personally if I say no to compliance tests or pass shit tests, and will escalate to fighting. STFU/ignore/leave room is ineffective... she'll follow me around screaming, swearing, threatening, waking me up at night to keep fighting, etc... This type of response is erratic. Usually passing a test works, but on rare occasion it's met with this extreme behavior. She meets many of the LSE criteria (awful father/childhood, history of DV in many other relationships, etc...). I could elaborate on specific events in comments, but the events themselves aren't really significant. What matters is that she takes a "No" to a compliance test as an attack on her self-worth/self-image (validates LSE belief of poor self worth) and responds with defensiveness/aggression. It's gotten worse recently as my OI, confidence, and DNGAF attitude has increased. My SMV right now is at least a 1-3 pts higher than hers.

Regardless... Has anyone dealt with this before, or have any tips? Will staying the course cause improvement in this scenario, or do I need to tweak how I respond to shit tests (compliance tests in particular)? It may be fundamentally incompatible, but is there a way to add comfort while passing a compliance or shit test? My gut instinct says no, but figured I'd ask if anyone has pointers.


Post Information
Title HD/LSE Wife... any tips?
Author mrp_awakening
Upvotes 13
Comments 78
Date 13 June 2019 03:07 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/241792
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/c06ynl/hdlse_wife_any_tips/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
domestic violencesexual market valueshit test
Comments

[–]0io-Tsundere10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy

Will staying the course cause improvement in this scenario?

Probably. If she doesn't react well to jokingly passing shit tests, you can still pass them by refusing to comply without any humor. Example, she drops something on the floor and tells you to pick it up. Just say no, you can pick it up yourself.

If she doesn't get any kind of "reward" for the lengthy temper tantrums they'll get extinguished over time. It might take several months.

Edit: Probably she learned early in life that when she threw a tantrum she got what she wanted (shitty parents). It could take a while for her to un-learn that with you.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Edit: Probably she learned early in life that when she threw a tantrum she got what she wanted (shitty parents). It could take a while for her to un-learn that with you.

Or she learned it due to beta faggotry. Looking back I was the one who caused my wife's behavior. Throw a tantrum equaled "I'm so sorry honey, let me rub your feet. Do you need a drink or a snack? What can I do for you?". It just got worse and worse over time. So now by not giving her what she wants - she ratchets up the tantrum. She throws out divorce and "maybe I'll go find a new husband", etc. This is the tantrum at the extreme, she can't go more than this threat. Once she knows you truly DNGAF if she does that, then she'll be out of options. Note - she can pull this for months to try and get a reaction. No sex = trying to get a reaction. Just be happy with yourself and keep improving. And feel free to point out her bad behavior in a way that shows the damage she is doing. I could see the shock on my wife's face when she said "you're going to end up divorced because you're such an ass" and I responded calmly but firmly. "Sweetheart, I'm not going to want to be married to YOU with this level of hostility and disrespect" (\leave room*).* Only use for true boundary crossing stuff (like disrespect).

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

See above. I think it was due to shitty parenting, but not tantrum=get what she wants. More so, constantly being punished (serious spankings) as a kid for anything and everything likely led her to act out because it wouldn't matter either way (not act out = punished, act out = punished), but acting out at least gave the chance of being heard. Looking more critically, this could be why being unreactive and unacknowledging of her outburst might be making it worse. I still need to be unreactive, but perhaps at least acknowledge her feels are there without trying to fix them.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Acknowledge by SHOWING. Hug, "Aww, I'm sorry you are upset. Let's go get some ice cream."

Also, I believe psoriasis is caused by a sun deficiency. Get her outdoors in the sun and those scales will fall right off.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Probably she learned early in life that when she threw a tantrum she got what she wanted (shitty parents). It could take a while for her to un-learn that with you.

Perhaps... her dad was the type to ruthlessly spank her and her brother for any kind of real or perceived insubordination. I wouldn't be surprised if temper tantrums were because that'd be the only way she'd get heard as a child. Maybe that's what's going on... her feelz get upset and she thinks she needs to escalate to fighting to be heard. STFU/ignore/leave room/AA will only make the problem worse because she's looking for feelz validation. In her mind, if feelz aren't being validated, it's because the tantrum isn't big enough. I'm not entirely sure where to go because she'll take it all the way to nuclear and/or beyond. Threatened to call 911 and claim DV. Threatened to divorce (started filling out paperwork). Kind of goes back to what I was thinking before... not give compliance (what she wants) but try to acknowledge the feelz. IDK...

[–]Grimsterr3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Threatened to call 911 and claim DV.

That's a hard line in the sand for me, the second this is said I would GTFO. There's dealing with crazy then there's dealing with career ending (or at least vastly changing) threats. I'd let her find that new husband, and pass that crazy potato off to some other shmuck.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I get that. I know her threats for what they are though... she's the type to escalate talk like that to get a reaction but not actually follow through. Still playing with fire though... and a follow through would be devastating.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just say no, you can pick it up yourself.

Assuming your wife is shorter than you, you can use "nah, you're closer" with a grin.

[–]friggandfrayed7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

There is a way to add comfort while passing a compliance/shit test...

  • "hmm i don't think so" with smile & kiss on forehead

Simultaneously putting you above her physically (to kiss her forward) and putting her in a submissive

  • "not tonight beautiful"
  • "nahhh *silence* you look great in that dress tonight"
  • "I love you!", smile, walk away
  • "maybe tomorrow", smack ass, walk away
  • silence, no response - make her walk over to you - then kiss her, smack her butt, kiss her neck and cop a feel

Make about more than that. It may simultaneously raise her SE cause she feels 'wanted' even though she's not getting what she wants.

You can stay the course (doesn't sound like you've been on it for awhile?). She will adhere eventually if she doesn't want to lose you because she'll realize she's not getting the proper response. Many women are like children in that it's a learned behavior that she does ABC and eventually you do XYZ. You have allowed that to occur, feeding that behavior. It will take time to relearn that ABC no longer gets her XYZ. She will amend her actions. There maybe a learning curve where it gets worse, especially if as you're mentioning, her LSE is watching your SMV rise AND her ABC is no longer getting her XYZ. She's frustrated, doesn't understand how/why, causes her to get angry... more so than before. Give it time. Stay the course, GAME HER! And add in a few of the comforts when faced with a test. She won't see it coming and just the surprise should shut her up for a few minutes.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good points. Thanks.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

You read that whole book and believe it all hook line and sinker.

For 2 years before I found MRP I was convinced my wife had a personality disorder. Back then sounded just like you, only taking about cluster B personally disorders. I use to read the forms on outofthefog.net and I use to reccomend that site to all kinds of people.

I also read a book the subtle art of not giving a fuck and one of his realizations was each time he found something that looked like an answer, he later found a better answer and a better description of the proble. MRP was my better answer.

Personally disorders cant be cured, cognitive behavioral therapy only if you can get them to even recognize that they have an issue.

Your wife follows you around and screams? I use to get into conflicts with my wife where if our genders were reversed, she would have beat the shit out of me. She raised her fists and threw things at me multiple times and she even drove insane a few times with the kids in the car.

How long have your weathered her storm, because we are just taking about the weather here.

I changed and my wife changed. You are not me though and your wife is not my wife.

What value does she add to your life experience because she sounds like a God dam nightmare.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

For 2 years before I found MRP I was convinced my wife had a personality disorder. Back then sounded just like you, only taking about cluster B personally disorders. I use to read the forms on outofthefog.net and I use to reccomend that site to all kinds of people.

I've been on the fence with mine, mostly because of external influences (her family thinking she has a problem). She has some anger issues, but really I think it's AWALT. Pretty sure 99% of us on here at some point thought their wife was crazy.

I also read a book the subtle art of not giving a fuck

Excellent book, changed my life. Highly recommend

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Unchecked feminism is indistinguishable from narcissism.

The only way to beat a narsasists is to go no contact (run) or be a bigger narsasists. Its probably why rian stone is always going on about men being narcissistic deficient.

I chose narcissism.

It works for me.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, since incorporating more red pill advice she's straight up called me a narcissist multiple times. Selfish is another big one. Autistic is another, when I'm holding frame and being stoic (not getting upset) while she's trying to make me fight.

Her father was likely a narcissist, and put on an over the top dominant charisma to cover up massive insecurities on his part. So, from growing up around it she sees through a lot of ways to pass shit tests, and associates them with insecurity. When I fog, she straight up catches that I'm dodging and agreeing with something different. When I AA/AM, she accuses me of making a joke about whatever we're talking about. Sometimes it works on her, sometimes she responds with anger, says I'm being childish and indirect.

I have seen some change for the better, but it's definitely a long, steep, road ahead. Her tantrums can be nightmares, but they're not every day (once a week to once every couple months) and she does bring value otherwise.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Narcissist, asshole, selfish prick, dick, bastard. These are all positive things when she calls me them. Be careful and hear on the autistic one. You still can show emotion without getting upset. You actually need to show emotion in a masculine way. I forgot who it was who recommended this but the line I used worked nicely "if you think I'm not upset, you're wrong. Just because I do not react on my emotions doesn't mean they're not there". Controlled anger is another good one. let he know you're angry and disengage.

Her tantrums can be nightmares, but they're not every day (once a week to once every couple months) and she does bring value otherwise.

You aren't alone. While AWALT in terms of emotion, I do think my wife (and looks like yours) goes from 0 to 11 in seconds. There's no middle ground, it's I'm happy or I'm pissed. The other things with my wife is this perceived need at revenge "you hurt me so I'm going to hurt you back 10x worse". She's actually said that before.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good point about showing emotion, and something to think about. I can turn off emotion/stop caring in the moment, but perhaps this is the wrong approach. Thanks.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed on Personality Disorder.

So many weak men think their wives are BPD. No, in most cases they are unhinged and desperate for a man to contain them. BPD looks a lot like a woman who needs the comfort of being with a strong man and is not getting what she needs.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (19 children) | Copy

Honestly, I am not sure if it really matters. My wife displays the same and I freaked out when I read PFS. I was almost certain she was broken and I had to divorce her. Over the past 6 months or so, I have seen these behaviors almost stop completely. I can't remember the last time she followed me around the house acting crazy. We don't even fight anymore.

She hates when I don't comply still, but I have been doing it and having fun. Usually if she asks me to do something I make her say "please" and be very submissive. Oftentimes she will say please and add "I am not trying to make you my piss boy, I just need your help." I mix it up. Sometimes I comply, sometimes I ignore and sometimes I just say "Nah", smile and keep it moving with my day.

Have you tried fucking the crazy out of her? Crazy bitches just need dick and lots of it.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

I see an immature emotionally unintelligent man here FYI,

If I was your wife I’d strengthen my boundries and learn some good EQ and then wake the hell up and then leave.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

I like all the selfies you took, you sure are cute.

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

32 and lives with mom. No concern of yours

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

32 and lives with mom. No concern of yours

Lol... WTF is he doing here on MRP then? Larping?

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A huge portion of posters that attack, insult, and demean are violently projecting. This is no exception

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I reviewed "his" history and am almost certain this is a woman.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] -1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy

make her say "please" and be very submissive

Funny you should say that... I've done that a few times in the past before, and she's trying to flip the script now. Last night I asked her to something easy for her, but would have been an inconvenience for me and she told me to say please. I laughed, said no, and then she blew up. She was up till 1:30am screaming at me, waking the baby, etc... until I appologized. After 2-3h of STFU/ignore/moving rooms I finally lost and got angry. I get up at 5:30 for gym, and was stupidly tired at that point and she just wouldn't stop. Our 15mo old was also crying cause she's screaming, etc..

Have you tried fucking the crazy out of her? Crazy bitches just need dick and lots of it.

Seeing as it was a shit test that started the whole thing, I'm convinced that would have been the answer. Problem is she's self sabotaging (common symptom of LSE). Passing the test makes her angry and fight. When she's angry, she says sex is off the table out of spite. Not passing the test leads to her not wanting to fuck (despite needing it) and more bitchy behavior.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

When I first started MRP, I sat her down with our pastor and his wife. Actually, she initiated the meeting because she wanted to "sick" the church on me. I took them by surprise and owned our marital problems. Even sat there stoic as she flipped out about me and got all emotional and looked like a child. My pastor looked like he wanted to choke a bitch. He couldn't believe my demeanor. I had been there 1,000 times before over 12 years and was decent at STFU already.

I told her them and her that I can't do the verbal abuse thing in front of the kids any more and it was pushing me to divorce. I had never introduced it, but I was serious. Ill give it 6 months, and if she doesn't join the team I am fucking OUT. I also said if she does it again, I will leave for the night.

1 week later I was cutting my hair during the work day. Long story short, it triggered her because I messed up her clean bathroom. She literally went into orbit. I told her to get out of the bathroom and closed the door and locked it. She opened it and lost her shit and got even louder. I calmly packed a bag and told her I would see her tomorrow after I trained BJJ in the morning.

She literally had an emotional breakdown and cried on the floor in front of her mother and the kids. I wasn't there to witness it because I went to go eat dinner with a friend.

She never did that shit ever again...

Are you a bitch? If not, lay down a boundary and then follow through. Watch what happens to your little princess when you actually lay down boundaries and enforce them. YMMV but it worked wonders for me.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Are you a bitch? If not, lay down a boundary and then follow through. Watch what happens to your little princess when you actually lay down boundaries and enforce them. YMMV but it worked wonders for me.

Said something similar to my wife last week. Next day she's on her best behavior. I don't think it was a coincidence. 100% would recommend but you have to have real DNGAF, OI, and frame to pull that off. Otherwise she'll smell the weakness a mile away.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You brought back memories for me of the one and only time I had to up and leave. Like you said, it shouldn’t take multiple tries. . In my case it only lasted a couple of hours before she was calling me begging me to come back home. I was fully packed and ready to hit a hotel after the gym.

I ended up with two great workouts that night, some new PR’s in the gym and some bonus cardio when I got home.

Pussies are just too scared of losing their “one” to use the only power they have...the ability to walk away.

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If going nuclear doesn't work, just kill the fucking puppy please.

[–]rocknrollchuck7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

I laughed, said no, and then she blew up. She was up till 1:30am screaming at me, waking the baby, etc... until I appologized. After 2-3h of STFU/ignore/moving rooms I finally lost and got angry.

And this is why she keeps escalating. Every time you give up, you're just training her to push harder to get the results she's after. Because when she pushes just a little bit harder, you cave every time. Your actions are reinforcing the very behavior you're seeking to change.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yep, I know. Guilty as charged. I made it through 2-3h and eventually the lack of sleep and ringing ears got to me.

[–]rocknrollchuck5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Next time, leave. For a few hours. And leave your phone on the table at home. Set a boundary and defend it.

Your boundary next time should be "If my wife starts yelling at me, I will leave."

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, I've done that before. Was 2:00am, and I was drowsy from tiredness and probably shouldn't have been behind the wheel of a car. Tried moving rooms, and she'd chase me around the house yelling wherever I tried to set up camp for the night.

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Every time you give in she learns to push.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yep. You're right.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, it sucks in the short term, but long term it's the only way... pfft 2-3 hours. That's amateur stuff. 2-3 hours is mild - I've had days of constant shit. First few days are always fine (and even entertaining!). After that, I find you have got to disengage, be busy... go drive around in the car for an hour just to get out, spend a little more time at work before going home.

Reinforce the following in your mind:

1) you're not wrong/incorrect/being unreasonable

2) AWALT and she's pushing to get you to react

3) it's not going to last forever. The longer you do not react, the WORSE it will get. She wins if you react to her. Keep your frame - hers is her problem. Your frame is unshakable, it is the correct view of the world for you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You may have to really distance yourself - as in leave and go to a hotel even if it's late. Take the 15 month old if you can. Sounds like she just gets completely flooded with emotion.

Problem is she's self sabotaging (common symptom of LSE). Passing the test makes her angry and fight. When she's angry, she says sex is off the table out of spite. Not passing the test leads to her not wanting to fuck (despite needing it) and more bitchy behavior.

The only way to win is not to play. This is exactly the same as my wife right now. Passing = pissed the fuck off, go sleep in the kids room or the guest room, physically keeps distance, etc. But... you know and I know that she wants you to pass. I believe it's her logical brain fighting with her primitive one - I should be mad because he should just fold and apologize - he's such an asshole vs. he's unshakable and he's weathering this emotional storm - that's hot. I'll reiterate - make sure you're setting and enforcing boundaries. She does need to be called out sometimes for shitty behavior (like in this case).

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Sounds similar to my wife in terms of behavior. I haven't completed PFP so can't say where she falls in that regard. But I don't think it matters what quadrant she is in.

In particular, she can take it personally if I say no to compliance tests or pass shit tests, and will escalate to fighting.

I just figured AWALT. My wife can flip out about something as simple as not getting up to turn the light off because she wants it off. There's triggers for sure - certain words that will cause immediate rage up to 11.

she'll follow me around screaming, swearing, threatening, waking me up at night to keep fighting,

I think it's best to disengage... get in the car and go somewhere. Waking up at night can be the same... though that's annoying as hell.

as an attack on her self-worth/self-image

It's gotten worse recently as my OI, confidence, and DNGAF attitude has increased. My SMV right now is at least a 1-3 pts higher than hers.

These two are related. /u/HornsofApathy put it nicely to me that after being on a pedestal for years, now she knows she's off it. HER eyes are just now working and the fantasy world she thought existed is crashing down. Suddenly she starts to become aware of the change in SMV levels. So she's going to fight that, and try and claw back on top. Two things I've observed during this (I fully believe my wife is going through this right now):

1) She tries to prop herself up - she's a great wife, she does so much for you, you'd be a mess without her, she's attractive - her friends say so, guys sometimes stare at her, whatever. It's qualification to try and get you to perceive her SMV has higher than yours.

2) She tries and get you to drop your SMV in your mind. This can be "I don't care what you look like", "you don't look good, you looked better before", "you think you're such hot shit, you won't get anyone as good as me", "you're a selfish ass and will end up alone". Her statements will be different but her goal here is to get the SMV at least equal if not to push hers higher again. I 100% this is driven biologically and subconsciously.

My guess is that it's extinction behavior. She'll push and push and push, eventually main event and then she'll know that you are unshakable. At that point she will either eject herself of fall into your frame. I would recommend if she crosses a line (e.g. disrespect) you call her out on it in a masculine way. Reinforce expectations of the marriage you have. "I expect my wife not to wake me up screaming when I'm sleeping". If she takes that as "trying to control her" (i.e. my wife), just restate it. Don't ever let her get you to think you're emotionally abusing her, manipulating her, or forcing her to do anything - you're not, you have your expectations and she's free to disregard them, but obviously there will be consequences (like her ending up alone).

[–]nordicpolarbear2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

She could also try to validate her smv by cheating and getting attention from other guys.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

While it's always a possibility, it's actually a pretty low one in my estimation of OPs dynamic relationship. Despite her getting rage angry and following him around to beat him up.... it's still feelz. She cares. A lot. Evidenced by her shit testing and compliance tests.

It's when the tests stop that cheating is more likely.

OP is giving her feelz, just not the feelz that he wants.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Attention from other guys is more likely than cheating imo. Assuming your SMV really is higher than hers. She needs to truly believe that cheating = throwing away a great, attractive guy.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, that's why I doubt she'd cheat. Can never be 100%, but I'm pretty certain.

She needs to truly believe that cheating = throwing away a great, attractive guy.

She's verbalized that to me before, and has expressed worry on multiple occasions that I'd be the one to cheat on her.

[–]helaughsinhidden3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Been there, done that. You have entered the realm of SHITTY COMFORT TESTS.

In the short term, women enjoy dominating a man and while it is enjoyable for a moment it ultimately fails. HOWEVER, relinquishing that control or having the one being dominated rise up, even in a healthy way, can be scary and threatening. You gotta remember that passing a shit test is actually taking your balls back out of her purse. She knows in her heart that you could be a powerful force to deal with if you actually figured that out.

Like Yao Ming when he first entered the NBA. Dude was taller and stronger than Shaq, but played like a small forward at best. Once he understood the advantage he had, he went from an experiment to Hall of Fame level performance. You are still a rookie in the big leagues and part of her is scared to death of what you might become if you realize you are the prize.

You'll see her go back and forth in rewarding and admiring alpha traits and resisting and punishing you for exhibiting them other times for a while until something very significant happens. She has to trust you. It is terrifying when a person who has been drunk a lot of the time takes the wheel. If a woman is grabbing the steering wheel really tightly, it's gonna hurt her when you are taking it back, so pay attention. That trust will take longer for women that have experiences that lead to LSE because part of her believes that either she deserved it and another part believes that she was a victim and everyone has the potential and motives to abuse, neglect, or manipulate her again.

When you feel things going sideways and instead of her reacting positively to passing a shit test, pause and stop listening to her words and pay attention to her actions. Focus on her facial expressions, body language, arms, hands, etc. She may need a simple reassuring smile, kiss on forehead, slap on the ass. She may need a timeout where you leave her for a bit. What she doesn't need is you DEERing and don't turn STFU/fogging into stonewalling if she needs some comfort. Simple comfort stuff to let her know she's valuable and you aren't hostile. If you've taken control over something she's uncomfortable with, saying things like "I can see this upsets you" or "I am sorry this makes you feel that way" in an understanding tone that isn't judging or mocking, but also is not apologizing for asserting yourself, being defensive, or owning any guilt or shame for who you are or what you've said or done.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

In the short term, women enjoy dominating a man and while it is enjoyable for a moment it ultimately fails.

Yeah, I think that's what's going on.

part of her believes that either she deserved it and another part believes that she was a victim and everyone has the potential and motives to abuse, neglect, or manipulate her again.

spot on.

don't turn STFU/fogging into stonewalling if she needs some comfort

Probably what my issue is. Not sure how to give comfort when she's demanding either compliance or an apology for non-compliance. Any attempt to deflect or divert is fought and those demands come right back to the surface.

"I can see this upsets you" or "I am sorry this makes you feel that way"

I've tried those. Probably even more triggering to her than the original offense. Her dad's a narcissist and she's gotten enough of those types of sorrys without acknowledgement of guilt that she see's right through it.

The way I see it, I think I need to give a healthy dose of comfort/SE boost while passing the test to prevent needing to do damage control afterwards.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

"I can see this upsets you" or "I am sorry this makes you feel that way"

I've tried those. Probably even more triggering to her than the original offense.

I don't recommend the sorry this makes you feel that way... that doesn't say anything and you're not really sorry. Have you tried to put yourself in her shoes and mirror it back?

Here's a recent example w. mine: "Listen, I know this is hard for you lately. You're confused about why I've changed. I get that - I'd find that difficult too. I know with [youngest kid] starting school soon you're getting anxious and that adds to your stress. You have to be going through a tough time.". Now the immediate response I got was her holding back tears saying "you don't know anything about me". It really doesn't matter - you're recognizing and acknowledging her emotions. That builds up that 'emotional connection' thing in her mind. Try it even with simple stuff "wow, it had to have been frustrating that the dog peed on the floor after you let her out, she's a dumb dog".

[–]helaughsinhidden1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The way I see it, I think I need to give a healthy dose of comfort/SE boost while passing the test to prevent needing to do damage control afterwards.

Maintaining frame is the key here. Smiling in a confident or cocky manner and NOT in a sarcastic or mocking way and you'll be fine. If you had more specific examples of the actual test and responses that are giving you the most trouble, the comments in here will be more useful.

[–]tap09885343 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

I also freaked when I read PFP. My was LSE, but is now mostly HSE, was BPD, but is now less so, and was FA, but is now mostly secure. Dread of any kind sends her off the rails.

Give an example of a compliance test. I look at a compliance test as her demanding something unreasonable or in an unreasonable way. If it is something that I should own but have slacked on, I reframe it as my responsibility, and something that I will take care of because it is my job, and I will choose the best time and approach to doing it.

If it is just something unreasonable...aka throws shit on the floor in front of you, demands you clean it up, then just laugh at that shit. "Dammit, you look hot when you're unreasonable. Come over here and make it worth my while. "

If its something reasonable, but in an unreasonable way, flip the compliance test. "While, you're up get me a fucking beer, dipshit." Walk over give your hungry eyes, lean in like you're going to kiss her, and then in sexiest voice, say "I don't think I heard you say please." right in her ear.

Back in my wife's BPD days, I was always compliant, and she doesn't really want that. It drives her more crazy than anything else. I spent plenty of nights sleeping outside somewhere, locked in a car or barricaded in a closet.

There are four key things: 1) Own your shit. If it is your responsibility, then step up and own it. 2) Don't own things that aren't yours. 3) Refuse unreasonable demands without getting angry or withdrawing 4) DNAGF no matter how long she's mad

This sort of behavior sounds very BPD/FA. She feels anxious so she provokes, you are upset and withdraw, she was right all along, you don't really lover her, blah blah, attack attack attack.

The trick is to lean in and engage more strongly when she provokes. You should be aggressive and confrontational, but in a sexy fun way. Escalated confrontation between two men leads to violence, but escalated confrontation between a man and a woman should lead to making out.

Women need strong emotion to get their feels. As FA behavior, she is testing to see if you will confirm her fears by pulling away. It is not intuitive. When an FA is a bitch, you can't punish them by pulling away. It is like dropping a kid with PTSD into a battlefield.

She is the flag flapping around and you are the flagpole, anchoring her. You cannot be reactive to her emotions. Your emotions come from you, hers flap in the wind. She needs someone that can tether her to a different emotional reality. If you are reactive, it feels feminine and insecure. It raises her anxiety. If your emotions are responsive to her moods, then she is a kite hanging by a thread, and you are the tail getting whipped about whenever the wind rustles her.

So when she is a bitch, always engage more, as the flagpole you are not moved by the wind. She slaps you. "You just made me rock hard." She bitches out. Slowly move in close with confident desire, kiss her and grind her against wall.

Since her hamster is doing cocktails of cocaine, shrooms, and cotton candy, you never know how she'll react, but by escalating engagement, you'll short-circuit the FA wiring that results in panic and feelings of impending doom. If you stay engaged, and escalate, but she still can't get over what's driving her batty, she will at least withdraw, instead of night stalking you.

Also teach her that waking you up means you will be aggressively initiating sex. Every time you wake you are ravenously horny, and so happy she's there, and you want her so bad. Like a fantasy sex robot, you were just laying there waiting to be flipped on. Half awake, barely conscious, a lizard brain who only exists to drill her into the floor. Eventually she will start to feel like there is no difference between waking you up and initiating sex. You will get more sleep, and when she does wake you, you might not mind.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

My was LSE, but is now mostly HSE, was BPD, but is now less so, and was FA, but is now mostly secure.

Glad to know there's hope. I've learned to have an internal locus of control over the years, and try to take responsibility for what I can, so I don't want to blame my issues on my wife's personality type. Owning and taking responsibility is important. Actually, I initially wasn't certain if she was LSE or HSE, but since re-reading I've come to the conclusion that she's LSE but outwardly tries to appear HSE. Anxiety or stress will push her back to her LSE base though.

The issue last night was I had asked her to put an empty glass I was holding on the end table next to her. She said I had to say please (compliance/shit test). I said no (should have been a pass). Hilarity ensued.

As I see it... the issue is that with HD/LSE, she self sabotages. She's HD so she throws a test and when I try to pass a test it damages her ego and she gets angry. Failing a test is a loss of attraction and disappointment. Whereas with HSE, she'd just brush it off and things go by the book. I think the solution is to add comfort or a SE boost into the pass, but was wondering if that would be self defeating. I.E. the purpose of a shit test is to show you're an alpha who doesn't care about changing her feelz, as opposed to betas who try and improve her feelz. Could be overthinking it. Maybe next time, just ignoring it and complimenting something else or outright escalating might have been appropriate.

[–]tap09885345 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Anxiety or stress will push her back to her LSE base though.

I've figured out this is what is happening with mine. Even unintentional dread is like strapping her to the front an express train hurtling toward death. It causes a transition from secure to FA.

The issue last night was I had asked her to put an empty glass I was holding on the end table next to her. She said I had to say please (compliance/shit test). I said no (should have been a pass). Hilarity ensued.

You might try a different approach that strokes her ego better. A shit test is passed by your attitude more than your response. If you were flirting with girl at a bar, a she said, "Buy me a drink.", you wouldn't just bluntly say no. You would convey that you aren't able to pushed around in a fun, teasing way that shows high interest and value at the same time. Take the time to dominate your wife in a way that she will feel the intensity of your emotional connection. Instead of "no", take it as an invitation to manhandle her. Pin her arms over her head, grope a little, lean in with your dirty talk voice and tell her "You are gonna love the way I say please." If you can establish dominance and emotional connection in your shit test response, it is a home run. Especially, as HD, she's going to need a lot of emotion going to have feels. This means that if things are peaceful, you need to entertain her with a little drama to elevate her attraction. Fun pranks, teasing, physical domination/light wrestling are essential to keep up. When she starts picking fights, it is often just to get more feels. The words you say in response don't matter, the only thing that matters is how those words make her feel. If "no" makes her feel worthless, unloved, unconnected, and bored don't bother with it. The logic of it is useful only to a man. Respond in a way that makes her feel fun, amused, and submissive, not resentful. The sidebar will point you to AA and AM as the best responses. But basic responses of fogging, ni, na can be mastered in an hour.

As I see it... the issue is that with HD/LSE, she self sabotages. She's HD so she throws a test and when I try to pass a test it damages her ego and she gets angry.

But I think you're missing part of the puzzle. If her ego is bruised, then you're Jon Rambo, not Don Juan. The skill of the test isn't merely to stand up to her, it's to give her feelings of attraction. Flat opposition creates bad feelings, not good ones.

I.E. the purpose of a shit test is to show you're an alpha who doesn't care about changing her feelz, as opposed to betas who try and improve her feelz.

You can dominate the shit out of her and give her great feels at the same time. Pure alpha is incapable of maintaining a relationship, we call him Rambo, and he will end that marriage in 30 seconds. The goal in passing the shit test is to get the girl, not to shatter your emotional connection. Weak beta compliance will make her bone dry. "Fuck you, go die hag." will make her a slightly hornier shrieking shrew making plans for her alimony money.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. This is very useful.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Keep engaging and rewarding shitty behavior.

She gets shitty? Leave the fucking house for 48 hours. No contact. Go to a motel, enjoy the silence. Allow your balls a little time to grow back.

Come back, all reset because the incident is in the past. Play your nice card.

She doubles down, instantly freaks out on you, immediately get in the car and leave for another two days with no contact.

Operant conditioning.

You won't do this because you're codependent and enjoy the misery and interaction, but I just get off on giving advice that is ignored on the internet.... wait... realization... I'm codependent, too...I can't walk away, either.

This motel smells like homeless feet and sadness.

I'm a pot, you're a kettle.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

I read about half of this puke, and it’s pretty easy to tell that she

A) Doesn’t find you attractive (of course, no stats provided)

And

B) Doesn’t see you as a leader.

This post is all about her. What about you?

It’s a great book you cite (I helped get it added to the sidebar), but nowhere in it does it say you should use those variables as an excuse for poor leadership.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Stats are 5'10", 180 lbs, 10% bf. Squat is 300lbs, bench is 260 or so, OHP is 175. Been lifting for years. As far as A goes, I'm there physically. Shit tests can be sticking points, but I'm improving there. I do get approached by random women and flirted with on occasion. I dont think it's lack of attraction.

You're right on B though. I do need to work on leadership. I do need to work on how I pass shit tests too.

The post was about her because I was wondering if LSE changes anything. I intentionally left out examples to keep it less pukey. That wasn't the intention. As far as I've gone... I've been applying for a few months now and seen some improvement but would occasionally get these crazy outbursts.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I do get approached by random women and flirted with on occasion. I dont think it's lack of attraction.

The part you’re not getting is attraction from your wife is related to:

I do need to work on leadership. I do need to work on how I pass shit tests too.

Very unattractive traits. After you’ve been with someone and you. Are married, attraction comes more from frame. Frame helps build leadership and pass shit tests.

So yes... you’re not attractive to your wife because you lack frame. Get it?

Like I said, that’s one of my favorite books, but you can’t isolate certain parts of it, or you are then taking it out of context.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah, I get that.

I dont think I was taking it out of context. The point is I see in her the HD/LSE trait where she escalates fights to try and get violence out of me... ie testing for capacity for violence. Shes had a history of that in previous relationships too. Sometimes passing a test triggers her to ramp up and start a fight. As it's not something I'd want to live with for the rest of my life, I was wondering if theres a way to pass tests which isn't as triggering for HD/LSE types or if it's something I'll have to deal with forever. As it's something that i don't want to deal with, I've also thought about looking into ways to boost her SE, and what I'm reading jives with being a leader. Basically stuff like delegate stuff to her and give praise for a job well done. That goes well with leading and putting yourself in a place of authority. Maybe improving leadership can help with attraction and reducing her testing for violence. But I'm not 100% sold on it... maybe that's just who she is. And if so I'll have to make the decision to stay or go. If it were just me, itd be an easy call... but 2 young kids complicates things. For now the stay plan is the go plan... keep improving, own more shit, focus on gaming her and other women.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You haven’t given it enough time to know whether it’s just a storm or whether she has a disorder. See /u/blackpill-lotus comment. He nails it on the head, and it’s his personal experience.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I wouldn't call LSE a disorder per se... self esteem is a spectrum and everyone falls in a slightly different place. I also do not believe she has a personality disorder... I think most people can show symptoms of those here and there, but if it's not literally all the time then it's likely not a disorder. SE can also change over time, and should respond positively to improved leadership on my part. It just reinforces that as a sticking point for me and the area to focus on.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good, now you’re taking ownership. I like it

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I divorced one like this. I also see a lot of “she, her” in your post. What are YOU doing?

It all comes down to this: are you satisfied with your progress and your current status? If you are, then stop trying to fix her or change your actions to reduce her volcanic eruptions. Volcano gonna do what Volcanoes do.

Is she high value and who you want to spend the next 30yrs with? If not, pull the cord on the relationship sooner than later.

My Ex was terrible like this. Yelling and screaming whenever she felt slighted or didn’t get the compliance or comfort she felt she deserved on one minute, fucking my brains out the next. Finally got tired of leaving the house at all hours for her crazy ass and I’d met all my personal goals, while she continued to get worse. She wasn’t worth it for me to stay.

[–]markpf732 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Create excitement for her in ways that don’t involve choking her out or smacking her around.

You can physically dominate someone without being abusive.

If she really gets excited by violence or pain try some BDSM in the bedroom to satiate her appetite.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not a bad idea. Maybe work to get that need fulfilled during sex and it might get better at other times... or lead to more sex.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read Verbal Intercourse is Optional as well as the top comment/counterargument. That should give you a good starting point.

[–]Bedtimeshine1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

With a hd/lse woman... infidelity is always right around the corner...

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah, it's always something I've been keenly aware of with her. Honestly though, the longer I've been with her the less tendency I've noticed for her to be that way... but it's not something I'd ever discount (AWALT).

She's got her reasons to be faithful though. I'm a few points above her, and she knows deep down that she couldn't get another man like me to commit. She also recently found out that she was a child of paternity fraud, it stung, and she doesn't want her kids to grow up without their real father. Again, nothing's ever certain and I know to remain vigilant.

[–]Bedtimeshine1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Obviously, You know her and the relationship better than me. But from my experience lse = seeking attention/validation (especially if she’s on social media) and conflict in the marriage (even when she mostly starts it) = her justification

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

lse = seeking attention/validation

If you've read PFP, she definitely falls under the Adventuress HD/LSE category. When we started dating I definitely noticed attention seeking behavior from her when we were out. I wasn't red pill aware, but had read a bit from the seduction community and treated it as a shit test. Basically ignored, didn't let it bother me, no mate guarding, etc... It seemed to drive her more towards me. The longer we dated, the less this happened. I haven't seen that behavior in years now, and it's to the point where if someone does hit on her she lets me know. She's not going to hook up with someone equal or even slightly higher SMV than me if it means she'd lose a husband and have to settle for another guy 2-3 points lower than me.

I'm cautiously trusting. Social media is just facebook, and her posts there are typically about our kids. Conflict in marriage is exactly what I'm posting about here though.

[–]Bedtimeshine1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Looks like you pushed through some red flags. I wouldn’t have treated her behavior then as a shit test. I would have kept it casual and not taken her seriously as someone I’d commit to. But that doesnt really help you now lol.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yup... absolutely true. Guilty as charged.

I wasn't the most attractive teenager, but at 20 started lifting weights. Cut my hair, dressed better, read up on seduction. Went from a 4-5 to a 7-8 in like 2 years. All of a sudden had women trying to hook up with me, but no relationship experience. The child with dynamite analogy applies perfectly. Didn't know how to screen. Didn't know which red flags to look for. If I had more experience at the time, I would have left it as it was and kept it casual. Can't say I wouldn't choose to do it differently though... our 2 kids are awesome and she's good for the most part now, apart from the fact that sex could be a bit more frequent, and these outbursts could go away. But again... if I had known more at the time it would have been different.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

No. No one has ever experienced any of this. You are a unique snowflake.

she’ll follow me around, screaming, swearing, threatening...

This is what you call passing a test? At what point are you going to no longer accept this? Is this how an adult behaves?

TRP has some great tools, teaches a lot of fucking fantastic things, but you are so deep in her frame that you are licking the inside of her ass crack. You aren’t even applying what you are learning. You think she shit tests you. Pass it then she will be on her knees sucking you off. That aint’ how it happens until you have consistency. Until you have proven that you deserve it.

You are studying it looking for what’s wrong with her. Why SHE won’t toe the line. You may have internalized all the Redness out there but at some point you need to make her leave the house until she can act like an adult. It is that fucking simple.

Seriously. At what point are you going to tell her to leave until she can speak like a fucking human being? You are putting up with her bullshit like some stoic throwback. Do you let her jerk you off with sandpaper? Then why are you putting up with this.

She’s acting like this because you are allowing her.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No. No one has ever experienced any of this. You are a unique snowflake.

Lol... if I thought nobody experienced this I wouldn't have bothered asking.

This is what you call passing a test? At what point are you going to no longer accept this? Is this how an adult behaves?

I'm convinced she's testing for a capacity for violence. She ramps up the fight to 11, and then pushes beyond (hits, bites, screams, won't let me sleep, etc...). If I finally lose it and show a bit of violence, she backs off, says she won't want sex for a week, but then 2 days later we're going at it and she is even more turned on than before. This has been a theme in every single one of her previous LTRs and even some of her STRs. If you read PFP, it says testing their man for violence is a pretty clear trait in HD/LSE women and to screen for it. BP me thought it was the guys she dated, but now I'm convinced it's who she is and she's trying (maybe subconsciously) to elicit that type of response, and is even testing for it.

Again... it's not every time a test is passed that she goes off like this. It's pretty rare, all things considered... but it's not something I want in my life.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your number one problem is you are thinking about this way too much. When are you going to do get into action?

You aren’t seeing it are you? Sure she could be deranged but you aren’t seeing what’s going on. You are a docile little bitch until you lose your cool. What is that all about?

She acts like that and you FINALLY lose it? Brother, my little shrew used to get angry every Sunday morning. It was a habit for her. Just a habit. I used to take the family out for breakfast every Sunday. I liked it. Yet ms. Bitch made an appearance. When I found Red Pill swallowed it whole I realized. WTF was I doing?

The next weekend she flew off the handle because I was going 2MPH over the speed limit, I stopped the car, told her to walk home. Kids and I were going to breakfast.

the Sunday anger didn’t complete stopped, but that’s another story but she thought twice about doing it when we were in the car together. If you want to get rid of her do it and stop looking at a book to give you an excuse. Yet you will have similar behavior from any woman because you are docile until you have had enough.

Why put up with it even once?

[–]markpf731 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

So many words. Here’s my back of an envelope plan for you:

1) your wife sounds like every other woman on the planet.

2) why do you care about her non-sense? You need to work on your FRAME!

3) power forward on your mission or finding your mission (HINT: it is not fixing her or getting her to behave a certain way).

4) don’t neglect the comfort and gaming your wife. I went a little too hard on a sincere IDGAF and it didn’t make life more pleasant - indifference as a state of mind while liberating is not fun. Balance these two aspects in your relationship.

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

your wife sounds like every other woman on the planet.

Really? Every other woman on the planet tests their man's capacity for violence and responds positively to displays of violence (albeit a few days later)? From reading PFP, I was under the impression that this was a trait exclusive to HD/LSE types. My wife has a history of violence in every LTR and most STRs she's had in the past. The STRs where there wasn't any violence just so happened to be with guys she got "bored of", and in retrospect didn't find that attractive. She will on occasion (every few weeks) try to escalate violence upon passing a shit/compliance test, and I was wondering if it's how I'm passing the tests that triggers it, or an itch she has that needs to get scratched. And, if it's an itch, will improving self esteem make that go away? From some comments who claimed their wife was LSE, it sounds like SE can be improved and this should go away.

[–]markpf731 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes sounds like every woman. Your claim of her trying to trigger violence is your perception and internal response. (Aka feelings). With more FRAME you may see (or feel) this differently.

You can’t fix or improve your wife’s self esteem. Unless you are telling her she’s a worthless piece of shit than I’d suggest you stop doing that...

[–]mrp_awakening[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your claim of her trying to trigger violence is your perception and internal response.

Thought that for the longest time. Then read PFP, and realized it wasn't perception but actually her intent. The fact that she drew that response out of every past relationship, and it would seem to make her more attached makes me believe it. PFP says to avoid HD/LSE women because they test for violence. Basically they won't think you're alpha unless you show that you will respond violently when pressed, and that it won't stop.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Mosty MRP tactics assume a HD man and a LD woman and that the man can become more attractive.

In the case of a HD woman, the rules could very well be slightly different. What would be the purpose of Dread Game for a HD woman anyway?

OI is not needed for a HD woman. When are you denied? Why do you need OI?

DNGAF works quite effectively for sexual denials. It doesn't work if she is throwing her body at you- he only weapon- and you deny her.

it's gotten worse

If you are getting all the sex you want, why are you playing games? Provide some comfort. If you are playing sexual denial games then STOP. We use female tactics often in MRP but this is not the time for womanly games.

As a man you can say "no" to a compliance test without making her freak out. Just smile warmly and tell her "no." Then give her a hug and reassure her that you love her. If she continues to demand the compliance test deflect- "you are so cute when you try to order me around." Then take her by the hand and tell her you can pick it up together (leads her to object of compliance test, moves hand to pick up object together while maintaining hug).

Treat her like a bratty little girl! You wouldn't get petulant with an 8 y/o demanding X, Y or Z. You might pat her on the head or send her to her room but you wouldn't get upset. Would you?

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like you both need to learn about your attatchments styles. Sounds like reading the first part she may be anxious-preoccupied and I wonder if your dismissive or something else. Just not secure as odds are not.



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