askTRP is fantastic, but IMHO is highly flawed. This isn't a question but more a "Fuck You" to the guys in that tell you to "Be Yourself" and "Frame is all that matters"

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June 19, 2019

Okay, I'm going to start with a controversial topic, and then my experience with said topic. Artificial enhancement. This is long winded, so if you ain't with it, skip.

I started off a tall, skinnyfat, ugly AF MF that dressed and smelled like shit. Being 6'4 and somewhat smart was the only thing I had going for me. Went to a top 15 Business School prior to arriving at RP.

After coming here I lifted, got big (strong enough to bench 235, Deadlift 500, do 20+ pullups, etc. At this point, all I would get were the super ugly and fat chicks throwing themselves at me. Did exactly 3 cold approaches at this point and got rejected both times.

Then I fixed the grooming and started spending money on dressing. I got my teeth whitened, got a skin care routine, and got a sales job where I got hella social experience. Would consistently get complimented on my size and how I dressed at this point. At this point, very normal/average chicks would throw themselves at me. Here and there, I would hear from mutual friends that average/normal chicks would be talking about wanting to fuck me. I picked up the cocky funny vibe from TRP and it worked on average and ugly chicks like a charm.

I hit this weird state where I could not get the HB8 level in a plateau. Then I caught heavy oneitis for a chick I was friendzoned with who was a legit model and had 20k+ social media presence. That shit was awful and so cringy so I'll move on.

I kept shooting on chicks in the 7-8 range or fringe model level fitness chicks, and only succeeded on one of them with an unfathomable daddy issues psycho chick that had amazing genetics. I got rejected and shot down over and over and it was depressing cuz tbh I am legit ugly AF and I considered getting surgery on my fat ass honker.

I asked questions here, everyone just said "you're fine, just keep approaching. Being ugly AF is fine since you're tall and strong". So I tried, and tried some more and I just reached a plateau where I was not able to get the quality of chicks that I wanted.

Everything else was going well, my business took off, I was soon to graduate college, so I pulled the trigger on a rhinoplasty to fix my shit up.

I got it done, had no swelling whatsoever when I was done. Within a few weeks, I went back to approaching and I IMMEDIATELY noticed the difference.

The one insecurity I had, the honker was gone. It was like I had been playing on hard mode, and once that got taken off, nobody could mess with me. It's like a video game. You have different stats on body, dressing, career, confidence, face etc.

If you get a big instant boost on one of those key areas, it changes things. Finally experienced true abundance after hitting a few legit 8's the last couple of months after hitting exactly 1 in life prior to that. I watched 7's and 8's slide in my DMs, come over asking me for squatting advice, invite me on hikes, all after the artificial enhancement. That never happened before and had nothing to do with frame or game.

So my conclusion from this all, is all the people in here that were claiming "frame is all that matters" and "short fat balding guys with wife beaters can pull 9's in the club with frame" are absolutely full of shit and have no experience whatsoever.

First of all, you can't even get into a club with a fucking wife beater on. Second, the short balding ugly guy thing only works if you're shooting thousands of shots, on every single girl and absolutely racking up rejections like mad. Not a marker of efficiency at all and contrary to what some guys here think, women like to have sex as well, and looking like shit does not aid in that.

My advice to guys reading. Do whatever the fuck you want, life is short as fuck especially when you're young. You're responsible for yourself. Own your shit. Take what you need from TRP, change your life, and move on.

Post Information
Title askTRP is fantastic, but IMHO is highly flawed. This isn't a question but more a "Fuck You" to the guys in that tell you to "Be Yourself" and "Frame is all that matters"
Author NikeSigma23
Upvotes 78
Comments 101
Date 19 June 2019 06:32 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
abundanceframegamethe red pill

[–]CrazyHorseInvincible[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child) | Copy

It's called askTRP, not tellTRP.

[–]nester7939 points40 points  (17 children) | Copy


Frame and personality are huge but there is a plateau where ugly and fat can't break through.

[–]DevilishRogue9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

there is a plateau where ugly and fat can't break through

As an Alpha. As a Beta that plateau doesn't exist, you just make more money.

[–]donkeydodo2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy

Yea, I forgot that DJ Khaled is probably fucking any bitch he wants in the world even though he is one ugly fat motherfucker.

No, this is a lie that you rookies tell yourselves to feel better about your weak ass games.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy


[–]donkeydodo-2 points-1 points  (10 children) | Copy

So the first claim made, i.e. "there is a plateau where ugly and fat can't break through" is proven false?

[–]Vikingcel8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

Just become famous

[–]donkeydodo-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

How hard is it though, really..?

[–]Vikingcel4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

The question is why would you want to become famous just to be a betabux?

[–]donkeydodo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Now, the real questions are asked

[–]htowntrav1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Jeff bozo owner of Amazon maybe? Or even Elon musk. Two super wealthy entrepreneurs. Both are average with women. Just because you get the money doesn’t mean you’re successful in life romantically. Also the opposite is true.

[–]Vikingcel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cause they don't throw Dan Bilzerian parties.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Technically, I suppose yes.

But not everyone has money, so saying ‘but DJ khaled’ is void because he hasn’t really broken the barrier of being fat and ugly, he just has a lot of temporary money.

[–]donkeydodo-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

So he has broken the barrier of being fat and ugly, by having status and money, literally the things that women care more about than the looks of men?

There isn't a barrier, you've created one yourself

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

No no, I’m not advocating that being fat and ugly is an impassable barrier. Lift, get built and earn as much money as you can, being fat and ugly will never be a worthy excuse.

I was just saying that DJ Khaled stands to lose it all in a flash if he doesn’t have the money, ‘cos the guys fat and ugly and only living off the money. Guy needs to get ripped, eat better and hope he doesn’t run out of money.

[–]donkeydodo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree to the extent that for himself, it doesn't do any good in being fat; when it comes to women, all women care about is you bringing something to the table (i.e. Status, looks, money, fame etc), it doesn't matter what shape it takes. If looks were that important, women wouldn't let older men fuck so that the women in question could reach the men's wallets, and truth is; most guys wouldn't ever fuck, because men, in general, are retarded when it comes to how to dress, smell and look for women to actually find them attractive. Women have a much lower standard for the looks of men relative to the standards that men have in the looks of women. This is something the sidebar explains as well.

Women's SMV is their looks, men's SMV is their looks, status, and money. Men can have only 1 of 3 and STILL get women, though the ratio of how much you get to fuck increases with your status, money, and looks.

Think of it like this; Women are rated 1 - 10 based on her looks. If she's hot, she's a 10, and ugly, she's a 1. Men are rated 1 - 10 but differently - as mentioned, we are rated on looks, status, and money. What this means is that men have 3 different subliminal ratings

Status 1 - 10
Looks 1 - 10
Money 1 - 10
So what women does subliminally is averaging these numbers. If you are 10/10 in each area, you're a 10. If you are a 5/10 in Status, 3/10 in looks and 7/10 in money, you're a 5/10. This is also why you want to play on the mystery revolving you, and not revealing all your cards, essentially ever to women. You have the power to raise your SMV, by being a mystery, because that which she doesn't know but wants to believe, she will believe. Heck, that she knows but don't want to believe, she won't believe either. Women are entirely feeling based, and if you're giving off the feeling "my nose is fugly", she will be infected by this feeling and thus she will perceive your nose as fugly as much as you do. Now, she might think that your nose is ugly from even before she got infected by your feeling for your nose, but the thing is that if you would display the feeling "I know my nose is fugly but that doesn't mean I give a shit about my fugly nose", she will be infected by this feeling as well and thus perceive your nose as ugly but don't really give a shit about how ugly it actually is. You as a man control a woman by controlling yourself, and this is why DJ Khaled fucks who he wants - in his head, he owns the world. Because of that, he can do what the fuck he wants more or less and fuck whoever he wants. Women know he is ugly, but he doesn't give a shit and thus they don't give a shit.

[–]Luxury-Elite1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Just be a millionaire celebrity.

[–]donkeydodo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]nester790 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He isnt necessarily alpha. He just has money.

[–]1redhawkes26 points27 points  (3 children) | Copy

If your nose was a legit grotesque level fucked up, then yes, it can be a game changer, but that's not the case with at least 90% of the guys here, they just want to use some strawman as an excuse, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[–]donkeydodo7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Which essentially OP did as well - you create your own reality; believing your nose is too ugly for HB8+, it will be so.

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're speaking facts

[–]Sin-Silver2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with this, I've been battling with a physical limitation of myself and it's easy to use it as a rationalization to stop working or fall into a comfort zone.

[–]newtothepill1239 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy

Needed a post like this bro - I have severe confidence issues because of my honker.

Most likely getting surgery on it next month - Do you mind me asking how much it cost ya and where you got it done? Bloody expensive here in AUS

[–]xddm26537 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

what the fuck is a honker

[–]Sin-Silver6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's slang for a big nose, imagine a clowns nose that 'honks' when you squeeze it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

nose i think

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s what the big old horns on vintage cars were nicknamed. The one that was just a horn with a rubber ball at the end. Because people with big noses could make a similar noise to what it sounded like 😂

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm a Dual-Citizen in a place that's the hotbed of honker fixers in the world. The quality is super high and the price super low, in part due to the plummeting economy because of the US oil sanctions that are strangling the economy.

It's also an Islamic country, and a very dangerous one at that, so the likelihood of a probably white Aussie getting kidnapped is super high.

[–]MegladonBass1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]xx-Rain_Maker-xx7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well... For me TRP is more about knowing the backstage of the social matrix and learning how to game it. I have to say people that come here and say xxx or xxx do not matter are delusional. They of course do matter, the thing is that now you know they matter and you can start dealing with them. I wouldn't take this sub too seriously though, it's full of people in the anger stage that cannot form ideas by their own. On the other hand, OP just corrected his face and now his SMV increased. I don't see any wrongdoing of TRP in that regard.

[–]abratoki5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

Hey! I am reall happ for you and your success in the pursuit of your happiness, way to go brother!

One question I have for you that I want you to think about:

Would you agree that your honker - due to your own subconscious insecurities - was messing with your own frame? I honestly think that the two are connected and there is casuality between getting hb8 chicks and your mental block gone - thus being able to maintain an HONEST self confident frame.

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Fucking fantastic question. I asked myself this all the time before. I do think that it fucked with my frame subconsciously, because it was so egregious that people mentioned it all the time when I was growing up so it was ingrained.

The honest self confident frame is right on the money.

[–]abratoki0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Im glad we can see this the same way. And tbh I think that was the reason other people were telling you to stfu, keep frame and continue to lift.

There is a saying - fake it till you make it. Keep faking the honest confident frame will eventually have the “faking” removed and you will be “just” honest and confident.

You arent getting chicks now NOT bc of your nicer honker. You are getting hot chicks because you fixed your frame.

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No. Women can't magically sense his better frame. He said he got chicks sliding into his DMs.

[–]donkeydodo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Look up the concept of "Shadow psychology" and learn how you create your own reality

[–]AceMav213 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

So you’re saying I should run a cycle of Tren?

[–]Atheist_Utopia3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Be sure to eat clen as well

[–]kayfab1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

and take tones of T3

[–]Snowaey0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

yea bro go crazy

[–]SnivelingCoward10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

Ive been saying this for a while.. you can have a lot of game and frame but never get a HB7. I know lots of friends like this. Like they can literally date 50 girls and all of them will be under HB7. If they get the HB7 or something close, its thin ice. One false move and it forces them to be on their A-Game 24/7.

I am good looking too, so i realize my advantage, but luckily i was blessed with charisma and frame.

[–]mattycopter 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy

Your blessed with looks, not charisma and frame. Those are learned and harnessed

[–]SnivelingCoward1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I mean my charisma is God-given, i believe i have potential politically or as a celebrity, although im not interested in politics. Ive always been a leader of my friends since elementary school, without me being aware of it at the time. I was a Chad since a young age. That means im either really good looking or i had an X-factor charisma/presence thing going on. so My charisma ceiling is elite. Im still a young man in my 20s so im just having fun using my charisma just on bitches and meeting great people. But later in life i will probably think about utilizing it to make a difference, most likely from me being in a leadership role and influencing people.

Frame on the other hand, was earned and you are 100% right. But i feel that I have the frame and mental strength of a professional athlete that can handle the pressure in tough situations. That, i feel was blessed upon me, a high frame ceiling. I just need to max it out. When shit hits the fan, everything slows down and i can easily be calm and be the shot caller while everyone is panicking or emotional. Its just a natural thing for me. It would feel awkward as fuck if i panicked, it wouldnt feel right within.

All these things make me a natural leader and i get the positive validation that comes with it, making it a positive feedback loop that just makes me stronger and more confident in everything else. Even if this comes across as narcissistic arrogance, it doesnt matter. I believe it and that gives me an edge by default.

[–]dusara2177 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol, name definitely does not check out

[–]AClive220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How heavy is it to carry that huge fucking head of yours

[–]DerpJungler2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are right to a certain extend. Everybody knows that facial aesthetics matter, on top of body aesthetics. In every gym I've been, I've seen countless jacked mfers that don't take care of themselves. Patchy beards, smelly (duuh it's the gym, but that says something about you), ugly ass haircuts, huge armpit hair, shitty skin etc.

What comes after taking care of yourself, is a raise in confidence. You fixing some facial characteristics, not only has boosted your appearance, but most importantly, your confidence and with that, your well being (T levels, less stress etc.) It's like a chain.

However, reading a couple PUA books (e.g The Game, Neil Strauss) has made me realize that game/frame/mentality etc. are equally important. Maybe - in recent times - appearance is more important than all that, since social media are feeding us false expectations and making our generation self-conscious, but being good in one department can make up for lacking in the other (appearance - game).

I agree with much of what you've said, but it's false to assume that being ugly will force you to be a virgin all your life, or settle with 5's and below. The point is to balance it out, place emphasis on your strengths and make up for your weaknesses.

[–]Ohboohoolittlegirl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


My advice.. Recognise your social strengths and weaknesses. Keep the strengths and try to address the weaknesses with TRP principles. Learn to understand the basic principle of RP, instead of seeing it as a set of boxes you have to tick. TRP is about self improvement. Strengthen yourself, keep the good parts and create your new self based on this.

"Chad" is like a scale. You don't need to and imo shouldn't tick all the Chadboxes, but make sure you are masculine enough to pick up on your weaker sides.

[–]Distractingyou1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would have to disagree cause normally average people tend to disqualifie themselves too fast and you would be surprised cause in my personal experience a female friends i had which was super ugly would get like 1 or 2 dudes per party and i know this guatemalan who is really funny but he is ugly as fuck and he has a high n count of girls so far dating many white girls the time he has been here, but i admit after googling how does a honker look like i admit it looks disgusting and ugly

Honestly in the future for the good of humanity genetic engineering is going to be necessary and i would argue mandatory for achieving a more equal society, sadly it would require violence so i think it's better to leave it that way without thinking too hard how society could acomplish that, sometimes the blue pill is necessary so society doesn't collapse into violence

[–]6sterile61 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lol rinoplasty? Wtf

Please post pics of ur nose. You must have had a 10 inch nose for it to be a problem

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm going to go with fuck no.

If you Google Max Holloways nose, imagine that but worse. It was fucking bad, like small children in the family would come up to me asking what happened to make it like that.

It makes me laugh my ass off now, but that shit was fucking bad, trust me.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy

Anecdotal evidence is best evidence...

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy

EC, with my respect to you anecdotal evidence is all that TRP has. There is next to zero empirical evidence where we can quantity things like a hard science. This is a form of social science, an art.

[–]mrmaika102 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are speaking the truth my friend. My buddy in early high school had way more game than me but he looked like total shit. I would get more girls than him every day of the week simply because of the way I looked. People desire attractive people, men and women both, and frame can only compensate for so much. It’s evolution

[–]kayfab1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was on both side of the fence, from 14 to 18 i was the good boy being rejected all the time, i am close to 6 feet and when i reach 19 i had develop a good physique that women started to notice me.

Younger i picked up women i though where out of my reach and i was amazed, yet being a beta i always dated below average cunts that cheated and rejected me.

I pro wrestled in the Indies in Montreal i had the beach body then things started to look up, i grew my hair, i also have piercing blue eyes.....

But after my last relationship at 41 i gained lots of weight, and i tried and failed online dating, i even met a few women, the younger ones seem to be more attracted to younger men then the old hag my age.

At some point i just stop chasing women, its useless, i still hit the gym hard stronglift 3 times per week, and i still look good, but i am just tired of this stupid game.

In today world looks are everything even 45y old hags who think there smv is the one they had at 20 want perfection.

I saw what was left and honestly i gave up, be alone or be with a single fat mom of 2 kids, the choice was clear for me

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

you have to be autistic to think ugly guys get hot chicks because of game, kunfiduns or some other imaginary trait

[–]Vikingcel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. Most guys here are full of shit.

The only ones who preach game/frame>>>looks are the ones who ain't actually lacking in the looks department.

[–]Distractingyou0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

My personal take on this is that fuck society not your classic fat sjw tumblrina way but in a more realistic way like for example i still remember when i was a child when someone said to me ugly goes to ugly, pretty to pretty, skinny to skinny and fat to fat i thought that's unfair i am fat as fuck and i want that skinny girl, i wouldn't entirely disagree with that premise but it made me think do i really have a choice in the matters? Does a chobby fat like me only deserve (and not better) another chobby fatty? The answer of course is not, idk how much agency humans really have but the fact we can question reality and take action gives us enough free will to not be some pussy faggot incel complaining about how he can't get girls and rather take action and do the work. I am still a kissless virgin but in reality everyone is on their own, greatness only comes after something or someone denys your existence and no one gives a shit about you so you might as well try to be that mosquito that doesn't quit biting that girls ass

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am still a kissless virgin

So the only difference between you and pussy faggot incels is that you don't complain (yet)

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

It's hard to tell when you don't have pics. Good for you, though, man.

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This is TRP. That would be literal suicide for showing your face in a place that's almost universally labeled a home of misogyny

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Still makes it hard to tell. This guy could have literally had a bus for a nose. Maybe it was just too hard not to notice.

[–]Sartek0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cut out your eyes + hair then blur it a bit then crop out everything but face. You got your nosed changed so should be hard to identify from before pics. You can always delete it in a day. Who said you posted it, nothing stopping a bitter friend or crazy girl from posting pics of you and framing you yaha

[–]Blackhawk24790 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Whilst I am sure the rhinoplasty physically made a difference to your SMV, you’re probably benefiting more from losing your obvious insecurity about it and projecting more confidence.

[–]mams17240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can we see what you looked like before and after?

[–]donkeydodo0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You are living in denial to the extent that you are blame shifting to TRP for your own faults. I can see one clear reason as to why your questions were left unanswered to yourself and why the answers "you're fine, just keep approaching blabla" didn't work - because you didn't believe in it, or yourself. You thought your "honker" was an obstacle for you, so it essentially became an obstacle. You are denying for yourself that it was literally your own insecurity that retarded your progress with HB8+.

Why do you think the ugly girls as you've described them started to come to you, and kept doing so? Because you essentially believed your own SMV was so much higher than theirs that you could literally do whatever the fuck you wanted with them. Why do you think the HB8+ didn't come for you? Because you believed your own SMV was so much lower than theirs that you reeked of it, thus they conceived you as lower SMV because you created your own reality by denying yourself. I don't give a fuck what you think - YOU are the one who is suffering the consequences of your own thoughts and actions. Don't blame this shit on anyone else - I've seen fat, ugly, acne covered geeks game chicks that a lot of men, looking like prince charming only would dream about. Why does it work for them? Hint - Game

The reality here is that your game was so shitty that you couldn't elevate your status - because you told yourself so. Are you familiar with Rasputin? If not, perhaps you could tell me how this ugly motherfucker managed to become a sex God. I know the answer, but I want you to answer it for yourself; I'm going to hint you in the direction that you need to hear and learn - Game

You are right about one thing, and that is that genetics do matter to the extent as to how easy it'll be for one to attain a game good enough to fuck anyone. The reality, however, is that unless you look like Quasimodo, it's only a matter of game and experience.

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why do you think the ugly girls as you've described them started to come to you, and kept doing so? Because you essentially believed your own SMV was so much higher than theirs that you could literally do whatever the fuck you wanted with them. Why do you think the HB8+ didn't come for you? Because you believed your own SMV was so much lower than theirs that you reeked of it, thus they conceived you as lower SMV because you created your own reality by denying yourself. I don't give a fuck what you think - YOU are the one who is suffering the consequences of your own thoughts and actions.

You're speaking in half truths.

Before the enhancement, I was never getting approached online or in person by 7-8's in any type of way. After the enhancement, both of those things have happened and they made it unbelievably easy.

That didn't happen because I "believed my SMV was better than them". That would be absolute fiction.

[–]donkeydodo1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I can see what you mean; you fixed your nose, so you became more attractive per the definition of what people find attractive. Yes, you weren't approached earlier. Doesn't mean you couldn't have fucked an HB10 anyways because you could have approached her yourself and gamed her.

I'll tell you a bit of myself. I am 6'5, 200 - 230 lbs (195cm, 95 - 105 kgs), and I'm literally perceived as a Viking. I have good genetics and I look good, I know it myself and others know it too. Do I get approached all too often? No. I can see exactly how many women want me where ever I am, but the truth is they are too scared to approach me - because I perceive myself as if there are no other human alive with the same SMV as me. The effect my mindset has? Basically fuck anyone I want, when I want to (and not when she wants to). Being approached means that you are talking with her on her conditions. I'm essentially displaying to women that I only would talk to them if I wanted so myself. I would only fuck her if I wanted so myself - her pussy has no power over me. Women can sense this, and because of that they stand desperately and stare at me. I made two sisters fight each other because I made out with one of them and fucked the other. Because I knew I could, and I knew I could because I believed I could.

Now, I'll tell you something else about me. I wasn't always like this - 5 years ago, I was the biggest fake alpha / real beta you could find. My general attitude was alpha, to the extent that I didn't give a shit about anything outwards, and because of that a lot of women got attracted to me - but I was a beta because I cared more than I showed at first glance; I was insecure in my looks, I had a lot of muscles but much fat as well and I was insecure about my fat, and whenever a girl took a liking in me and she saw my "real me", she got disgusted by the fact that I had essentially fooled her with my fake alpha aura that she didn't even want to keep me as an orbiter. Now, imagine that.

My Beta days were allowed, by no other than myself. My beta days were exactly what I had created for myself. Heck, I was a virgin far longer than someone would have predicted based on my genetics - because I had a shitty game. And I doubted in myself - I created my own living hell.

So, what did I do? The third time I got heartbroken, I thought "why the fuck isn't these nice guy actions working", I found TRP and here I am, with an N count I don't even know myself. I realized that I was the one creating my own reality, thus suffering from my own creation's consequences. There is a book called The Gulag Archipelago, written by Alexander Solzhenitsyn; he was a soldier in Soviet, and after 15 years of war in Europe he got back to Soviet - only to be thrown into the Gulags (concentration camps of Soviet) when he got back home. Now, what most people would have done, would be to think "Oh, it's Stalin's fault that I am sitting here because [Insert any rationalization]", but what did Alexander do? This motherfucker thought to himself "how exactly have my actions up to this point brought me to where I am today", and the effects that his introspective thinking had was literally the settlement of the Gulags - he literally changed the world by accepting himself and the fact that his suffering was a consequence of his own actions.

What has this to do with anything, you might think? What this has to do with anything, is the simple fact that every action you take, every thought you think, you are in control of, and you create your reality thereafter. If you've ever thought to yourself "ah fuck my nose man it's too ugly for all these HB8+", then this is the reality you will create - I repeat, THIS IS THE REALITY YOU CREATE. You become too ugly because you believe yourself to be too ugly. Accept yourself for all that you are, and so will the world.

[–]Vikingcel-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

. I am 6'5, 200 - 230 lbs (195cm, 95 - 105 kgs), and I'm literally perceived as a Viking. I have good genetics and I look good, I know it myself and others know it too.

Stop giving "create your own reality" advice to ugly guys. You're not ugly, you have zero clue.

This is why TRP is full of shit. Guys who have it easy telling the guys who have it hard how easy it is.

Do you honestly think you're helping or are you really just jerking yourself off?

[–]Matthias_Foley350 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hard mode always makes you improve. If there are no challenges, there is no growth.

[–]party_dragon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The one insecurity I had, the honker was gone.

had nothing to do with frame or game.

Of course...

[–]dusara2170 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

Your experience does not reflect the experience of everyone out there. More than likely, you had shit Game and didn't realize it. Just take a look at somebody like Neil Strauss - dude was short, bald, and skinny, still managed to pull 8s, 9s, and 10s. Currently married to a literal model. If a guy with that many factors working against him in the looks department, I highly doubt that your average joe or even the vast majority of below-average joes, aren't going to be able to use Game to get laid. I mean, hell, there's literally an entire branch of Game dedicated to reeling in girls with higher SMV than you (Mystery Method).

Edit: Although, the people saying "just be yourself and have good frame" are still full of shit. There's a lot more to game than just having good frame.

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

I don't buy the bullshit about these PUAs that some guys in this sub idolize when so many of them have been exposed as frauds for A) making fake videos with actors, B) making high risk plays that are super inefficient, but when they work, it looks amazing. Like a PUA could go ask a random girl if they can eat nutella off their ass, and get rejected 1000 times in a row, but on the 1001th time they'll finally get a good reaction and post the video and their fanboys will go nuts.

I go based on what I've seen. Which is, ugly short balding guys who have balls and own their shit can do well when they play the numbers game. They won't shoot as high of a clip, but they can still get some play by being DGAF. Those guys rack up unfathomable amounts of rejections and dont give a fuck and keep shooting. Its brutal but it gets the job done. That's my experience.

[–]dusara2170 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Read The Art of Seduction. Short, ugly men like Gabriel D'anunzio have been getting laid by taking advantage of human psychology for decades and centuries.

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

D'anunzio lived in a different century.

[–]dusara2170 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Human nature is human nature

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Then find a current day example to throw around. Should be easy.

[–]dusara2170 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I literally just did. Neil Strauss. But we could always throw in the psychologically unstable, skinny white dude that goes by the name "Mystery" and specializes in picking up women way more attractive than he is. Maybe you've heard of him? You know, the dude that literally calls himself the greatest PUA in the world?

We could go in circles forever, either you'll except that human psychology is something that can be manipulated or you don't.

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Hm. I agree on Strauss. He's very average looking but short.

Mystery is a shitty example for you. He's a 6'5 handsome lad.

[–]dusara2170 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well, at this point he's a 48 year old failed magician picking up 20-something-year-olds.

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He's also a well known fuckboi though. Same with Strauss.

[–]BusterVadge0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Strauss is a high status author who hung (hangs?) out with rock stars. Status makes up for a lot of lack in the looks department.

I don't believe the incels that pound on their soapbox every day about looks being everything. Status can most certainly make up for lack of good looks.

[–]dusara2170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He basically lied about every facet of his life when he first got into pickup though. He didn't start relying on his actual SMV until he was forced to by a woman not buying the fake SMV he was projecting but still being interested in him.

[–]escapethesolarsystem0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Like all things in life it's a combination what you're born with and what you develop. As a good looking guy (7-8/10) with no notable physical flaws (except maybe a little short at 180cm), I think it's total bullshit when people talk about how "frame is all that matters". Good looks matter. Even long before TRP I was always getting attention from 7-8's, occasionally even 9-10's but never had the skills / confidence to close the deal.

Success is a combination of luck (what you're born with and circumstances out of your control) and hard work, and the idiots who believe 100% in hard work are lying to you when they say luck doesn't play a role, as the idiots who believe 100% in luck are lying to you when they say hard work doesn't matter. But both of these groups of idiots won't admit that they are wrong, because their entire identity is wrapped around being an extremist either for luck (socialists / communists) or hard work (dime-a-dozen motivational speakers and prosperity Gospel mega-church pastors).

I'm glad to hear that you were able to fix your biggest physical imperfection (hey, it's your money, do what you want with it), so now all the work you did to build up that Alpha frame and confidence will go much further. I see nothing wrong with your perspective here. It's balanced, it's rational, it's effective. Keep moving forward.

[–]theherosmyth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The problem that popped out to me is that you sound like you heavily rely on the interest you get from women. Only 5's and 6's were interested in you. You say you approached all of 3 times and got shut down. Well no shit man. It takes a while to become decent at cold approach pick up.

Somewhere in the comments you agreed that the nose did affect your frame because it was so egregious that people mentioned it all throughout your life. I don't doubt that getting rid of weak points in your looks and generally looking better is an undeniable advantage. And I haven't seen your worse-than-Max-Holloway nose. Maybe it was truly ugly. But still we won't know what your cold approach results would have been like if you gave it an actual shot, and you could come from a place where you didn't let it fuck with you.

If it works for you, great. People who act like looks don't matter are delusional. Maybe it was so in your face (pun intended) that a rhinoplasty was undeniably your best bet. But let's not discount the fact that some people make a mountain out of a mole hill and get discouraged by stuff that truly wouldn't be such a big deal of they just didn't give a shit and focussed on the things they do have control over.

[–]wanker71710 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your game just sucks. I say this as a guy who when obese was pulling HB7s and 8s without being rejected nearly as much as you are saying.

No one is saying girls aren't harder on guys that look worse, because they absolutely are. If you look unattractive then girls will assume you have a low SMV and thus be more resistant to you. If your SMV is higher than their initial assumption you can showcase that once you have their attention. Grabbing that initial interest is what's harder when you're unattractive.

I think you saw how much more willing girls were to give you their time and thought "Looks are supreme fuck everything else" but that's a total misread of why you weren't getting success before.

[–]therandombiker10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You didn’t had game, so you can’t say for sure

[–]McVaghunter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's called SEXUAL MARKET VALUE, not Personality MV. Being SEXY is all that matters.

Fuck framefags and their misleading spam about the importance of frame. Frame my ass.

[–]celincelin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Retards here will hamster this away with “its ur confidence not looks u just got more confident after fixing that shit.”

[–]RedUtopia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What have we come into.. TRP is becoming more and more another branch of inceldom black pill philosophy each day.

[–]NikeSigma23[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mate I don't even know what the fuck all that is. I came to RP, got what tf I needed, and am on my way out a better man than when I came in.

Glad I offended some of the circlejerks on the way out

[–]uptimex-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, you haven't noticed, but eventually you developped a correct frame. Look for a frame definition in NLP. It is hard to get the correct frame without experience, or you should have very good imagination.

Be yourself means pull them to your comfort zone. You like to be shaved for example, but everyone like beards now, doesn't matter, demonstrate you don't give a shit and you like to be shaved, and that is you, your authentic character, this moment.

[–]merilius-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

What is AF, and what kind of surgery are we talking about?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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