698,118 posts

[Mod] Snark, sarcasm, and mocking...

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November 6, 2014
309 upvotes

Occasional jest in good humor brings a little levity to our sub, so I don't usually make a big deal of it. But I wanted to address a particular type of humor that is prevalent in reddit culture, annoying as fuck, and doesn't belong here.

Mockery, snark, and sarcasm are the language of the passive, those who cannot confront an idea with logical discussion resort to these methods out of necessity. For them, the argument is an emotional one, and thus is only confronted emotionally.

This weakens the blade, however. When you allow your mind to rest, receive and make comments from the gut, you have accepted the culture and perpetuate it via compliance and conformity - cultural checks and balances that perpetuate memes by emotional merit regardless of value to anyone's mind.

Yes, the red pill has a culture, but to accept it blindly is stupid. None of us are infallible, and all of us are here to learn.

I don't mean to cut down comradery, which I think I speak for all of us- has been a positive experience. A fair number of us come from a background where these types of bonds with men are not happening, or are rare to find. To find a group of like minded individuals has been almost life saving for myself and I suspect for a lot of lost souls.

I do not plan on approaching this with a heavy hand, but encourage you all as a group to drop the language of the passive and stay focused on the topic at hand. If a post contributes nothing, we will continue to remove it as we always have. But if you find yourself about to sarcastically call somebody a "rapist" or snark about double standards instead of address them rationally, I encourage you to change your approach.

Snark, sarcasm and mocking are the tools of social justice warriors and adds no value to our sub.

That is not to say humor doesn't belong here, if done tastefully I believe it fits quite nicely. But do us all a favor and consider if the comment you're about to make truly brings value to our sub.

-RPS


Post Information
Title [Mod] Snark, sarcasm, and mocking...
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 309
Comments 79
Date 06 November 2014 03:02 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/24372
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2lh7ua/mod_snark_sarcasm_and_mocking/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
standardsthe red pillsocial justice warrior
Comments

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper70 points71 points  (1 child) | Copy

While I generally agree, sometimes laughter is an important weapon against nonsense.

You see, when an opponent takes a rational position, one can debate rationally. But when someone says something cartoonishly ludicrous (saying "good morning is sexual harassment, the burden of proof should be on those accused of rape), then debating them actually lends them credibility because it makes their position seem worthy of this kind of address.

In other words, we debate people who think socialism can work... but we don't debate people who think Elvis is alive. We laugh at them. Because otherwise we are helping them to move the Overton window.

[–]OsoFeo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also, one well-calculated snarky takedown can sometimes be more effective at highlighting the absurdity of a position than any rational argument.

The problem is that stupid people don't respond well to rational arguments. The only way to effectively counter some types of stupidity is mockery.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil48 points49 points  (8 children) | Copy

This is a bit off topic but here goes anyway: If you are going to post on Red Pill post for your audience not for yourself.

Keep your posts a moderate length. Keep your paragraphs short. Avoid unnecessary details. Don't suck your own dick too much.

[–]2IVIaskerade43 points44 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don't suck your own dick too much.

You know we wouldn't be here if we could do that.

[–]BloodRoseTRP8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

post for your audience not for yourself

And this is why GayLubeOil is one of my favorite contributors here on this sub. Far too often submissions are difficult to read due to grammar and formatting. As I've come to learn both on this sub and elsewhere, if your writing is not presentable, it will not be read, even if it is a mountain of knowledge.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't suck your own dick too much.

Haha. And I was just thinking, "Damn, GLO has gone all serious. No shock effect."

[–]WazzuMadBro1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't suck your own dick too much.

This should be on the sidebar. Cant stand reading the comments here sometimes because so many posters here are just humble bragging or worse fabricating bullshit to make themselves look more alpha. Its like /r/fitness where everyone claims to bench, deadlift, and squat way more than you know they actually do.

I'm happy for people having success. I am. But I come here to learn, and when people are embellishing, exaggerating, or just straight up lying, it makes that information less effective for myself.

[–]u-r-silly0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't suck your own dick too much.

Suck mine instead? Is that what you mean?

[–]DCLdit-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Keep your posts a moderate length. Keep your paragraphs short. Avoid unnecessary details. Don't suck your own dick too much. "

I'm new to blogging. My writing needs a lot of work.

Maybe you new guys have an idea you want to write about but aren't sure how. Here is the rough structure, I have open on my computer, when I write a post for my blog.

  • What am I trying to communicate?
  • What impact do I want to have on my reader?
  • How will this benefit my reader?
  • How was I drawn into it?
  • How did it change my life?
  • What emotional baggage do I bring along?

I found these tips on some site about learning 'how to blog'.

Hope this helps new guys with writing quality stuff. -d

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan71 points72 points  (23 children) | Copy

do us all a favor and consider if the comment you're about to make truly brings value to our sub.

Probably the most important part of this post. If a post or comment doesn't add significant value, then it shouldn't be submitted. Of course I have on numerous occasions been baited into stupid arguments, nobody is perfect, but I never incite them. In fact I think the endorsed badge makes you a target for people who take general issue with TRP but hide within the sub rather than just nope the fuck out of here.

Criticising someone by attacking them doesn't count as adding value, it looks bitchy/needlessly critical/provocative and is generally, in poor taste. You add value by instructing them (with methodology) on how they can do better, not by saying "HEY GAI, U DOIN THIS SHIT ALL WRONG, U NEED TO READ A BOOK" that's not adding value, that's just bitchy BS trying to pass itself off as advice. I'm pretty sure everyone is acquainted with the concept of reading, you can't truly believe you're not being a pretentious little fuck when you say dumb asinine shit like this without going into specifics and giving the target of your opinion examples they can research.

Sometimes I think a person who approaches me on here as retarded, or other times autistic, because there seems to be a growing prevalence for someone to miss the general point to argue "it isn't always like that." It doesn't have to be about women, it can be anything, you get these people who fill the need, almost obsessively, to point out that 0.35% of the time that in fact X does occur in spite of the dominance of Y. It's like a NAWALT for non-women related things. Again, we can work that out from deduction, that adds no value. It is a fluff redundant post.

There are a growing number of faggots on the sub who try to pass off "I told him to read a book in a aggravating way" as "self-help advice" but it isn't. I've had it happen to me recently and I don't appreciate it. If you're not going to give someone the tools/resources to do something better, you're probably not helping, just undermining with unactionable criticism. We are not here to undermine each other, but help. So if you see someone needs help with something specifically, tell them how to do it - point to a resource, show them HOW THEY CAN TAKE ACTION. If you don't, your suggestion/opinion comes off as pretension, not advice. Also if you don't know how to help someone, don't make some half-assed post because you want reddit karma (the shit is worthless,) we don't need the blind leading the blind.

A little respect and thoughtfulness in how you communicate with others goes a long way. Again, I suppose that is a self improvement interpersonal skill for the real omegas and social outcasts who have almost zero social skills and don't realise they alienate people in this way. Learning to value information exchange in and of itself, and keeping it high quality, rather than arguing the pedantic fuck out of any perceived imperfection or fallibility of someone's assertion (hiding in hypothetical, attacking their spelling etc) is crucial. All this pedantic shit throws entire topics off and leads to bitch fits. Not necessary. Must stop.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]teeelo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My good friend, allow me to take this Sticky posts advice and contribute to your betterment!

Place a '>' before any paragraph you are quoting, it looks and reads better with the suitable indentation. Also browse the 'formatting help' for more neat tricks.

[–]crazycattime1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely. The best way to text a girl is a very different kind of communication than trying to exchange ideas between men on the internet. Sometimes it seems like guys are using their text game writing style on here. Poor grammar and spelling mistakes may encourage the tingles in girls, but they undercut real communication between men.

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

On that note, the only person I know that can get away with that is GBFM over on Chateau Heartiste, because writing in such a ridiculous way means you have to actually think about what he's trying to say. He does it on purpose, and makes it work really well. He's intelligent as fuck, his writing style is just a device to make you pay closer attention.

[–]crazycattime0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with your point, but don't like GBFM.

I sincerely tried to parse his posts and found them not worth the effort. I agree that he does it on purpose, but don't agree that there's anything in there that makes it work really well. Some people really do grok him, though, so I don't find myself grinding my teeth as much as I used to.

The larger point, though, is that there isn't room for more than one of those guys, yet they tend to encourage similar posting styles, which are nowhere near the same level.

[–]Senior Contributordeepthrill14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

but encourage you all as a group to drop the language of the passive and stay focused on the topic at hand

Without necessarily calling out individual posters or comments from recent discussions, it may be beneficial to others if you have a few specific examples of sentences that are over the top snarky which prompted this post.

[–]__ROOSTER__7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

One of the best things I was ever told by another man , came from a SAS SGM. He told me "Rooster, we are men. We do not live in the world of lies"

Speak man-talk to other men, remove all the little beta bitch from your soul. Man talk is straight, it doesn't mean it's nice, in fact it many times isn't "nice" , it for lack of a better term "tough love" if you care about another man you talk straight to him.

Of course you need to be talking to a man, if he is a male , not a man , it won't work.

Snark and most sarcasm are how pussies talk IMO. All I can think of is a Seinfeld episode.

On the flip side is a man straight talks you and it's constructive, you shouldn't whine and make excuses like a little bitch either. A good indicator of your actual self-worth is how you take constructive criticism from worthy people that actually have your interests at heart.

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[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

The reason why TRP is such a good sub is partly because the snark and circlejerking that makes up the rest of reddit does not happen here. Another thing that reddit has a lot of that TRP would do well to keep under control is interpreting uncharitably. Purposefully misinterpreting someone's argument in such a way as to make them look stupid for internet points is beyond lame.

[–]2RedPill4LYF2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I couldn't agree more with these sentiments, and I know for a fact that discouraging this kind of behavior is exactly the reason I have been able to learn so much from TRP. Snark, sarcasm, and mockery are the tools TBP employs almost exclusively when debating on PPD. I admit, it was a guilty pleasure to go there and to logically defeat blue pill opponents at first, and while that hasn't changed entirely, after a time it became clear most of them are dedicated trolls who just don't want to see anyone make a clear point. I've watched some longer than others, and the amount of boiling hatred in their hearts makes it all the more ironic when they try to tell me I hate women for the gazillionth time.

The main draw to PPD for me was the opportunity to challenge my views. I see the value in rational discourse, and have learned a lot that has strengthened my beliefs as a red piller by hearing what the other side has to say. I'm not afraid to acknowledge reality, and when I debate, I put in real effort. Not so for blue pill trolls. The moment you corner them, every time, they pull these very same passive transparent tactics, anything to avoid giving an honest straightforward answer. The racism and bigotry displayed by TBPers that PPD gives passes on is far too great.

This is why I've taken it upon myself to create an alternative debate sub that should appeal to all sides of the discussion who want to be constructive in their contributions. I should like to think that men who are past the anger phase will see an opportunity to add their valuable insights. Likewise, I believe women who are rational enough to see that men are people will have a lot to offer as well. It is my hope that we can all come together to discuss the issues of today in a calm adult manner that is void of sarcasm, mockery, and snark. This sub is a call to all who want to see an end to legitimate inequality no matter your race, gender, or where you're from, one battle at a time.

I would go ahead and plug my sub here, inviting all who are interested in contributing, but I've got too much respect for TRP to do so without your blessing, fellow red pills and mods.

[–]teeelo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

and the amount of boiling hatred in their hearts makes it all the more ironic when they try to tell me I hate women for the gazillionth time

100% agree and can confirm.

But they can justify it because we are worse, being rapists and whatnot so it's perfectly fine to belittle and bully us.

[–]usul16285 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

I'd really appreciate some made-up examples, because I'm not sure whether to agree with you or to reconsider my participation here. Part of what makes the place unique is not punishing people for speaking their minds. Sometimes your mind says "You're an idiot". There's not enough time in the world to logically take down every piece of bullshit. On the other hand, asking people to be more receptive to newcomers and their myriad of mistakes is fine by me.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 9 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy

Any time you see somebody post a red or blue example, the first comment chain is:

  • But we're the oppressors!
  • So should I stop raping now?
  • But guise I'm a female so I'm oppressed!
  • Something something that's so beta!

It's an annoying chain of comments, and we'll be fine without them.

[–]AzraelApollyon-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy

So you elect to take away a dialogue option from a free flow style of conversation that is supposed to flow naturally while adhering to this new rule...Right. Will you at least concede that this decision was made from an emotional stand point and not a logical one?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I didn't take anything away. Did you read the post?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Part of what makes the place unique is not punishing people for speaking their minds.

Also I want to ad, this is not a rule (as in we are not banning/deleting sarcasm):

I do not plan on approaching this with a heavy hand, but encourage you all as a group to drop the language of the passive and stay focused on the topic at hand.

It's just an encouragement to up the quality of discourse.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I noticed some of this happens on our other RP subreddits (asktrp for example) when new folks come around and perhaps ask a question prematurely, without lurking and reading enough first. There's gotta be another way of purposefully answering these guys without perpetuating the bad habit of posting without studying.

[–]teeelo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A slap is just a hug that hurts is a nice sentiment.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Here's why snark, sarcasm and mocking reflects negatively on you:

By making these kind of comments you are basically telling the other person and/or everybody who listens that the other person is an unreasonable individual, that there is no point trying to talk in a sensible way with him because he is a lost case. You are alienating people in this way, you are declaring that you consider them an enemy and stranger.

First of all, it is a waste. If you really think somebody has so little value that you want to alienate him in this way, why do you even bother communicating with them? There are thousands of strangers around you, if you decide to alienate a person and make him a stranger, what is your interest in spending energy on him?

Some cultures are based around bullying and alienating. Swedish culture is a prime example. People can not bond at all unless they find a common person to alienate. If you refuse to take part in alienating people you will be alienated yourself. Which of course is a far better option than being friends with people like this. In most cultures it is considered a very bad trait for a man to talk behind somebody's back instead of dealing with any issue.

Also it makes no sense. If you think somebody is an idiot or an unreasonable individual and you see no point in trying to deal with it, why would you let them or anybody else know how you feel about them? What do you have to gain from that?

In most internet arguments you can see that it really just is persons taking out their frustrations in life on an easy target, an anonymous stranger. There are so many different compositions of people in this world that you're usually aiming very wrong if you're projecting or assuming things about the other poster.

[–]2emptyform2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

In most cultures it is considered a very bad trait for a man to talk behind somebody's back instead of dealing with any issue.

Unfortunately, this is not at all true in corporate America, where passive-aggression is the name of the game.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seems like many conversations initiated by strangers start this way. In a long line and something's going on at the cash register? Someone next to you will look at you and murmur a complaint to you, and you'll share that little moment where you are both aggregated against a common enemy.

For me I do it more with my co workers than anyone. What a great excuse to relax and find easy conversation to break the boring day up: talking shit on customers when they aren't around.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Snark, sarcasm, and mocking...

I am pretty shure that everybody here enjoys some good old, drily served, to the point sarcasm and black humor, but these are exactly the words I auto-substitute whenever a woman claims for herself that she is "a humorous and funny person".

Thanks for making the point here.

I'd like to add to this, that 4chan-slang also isn't something I would actually call masculine. While I enjoy a little 4chan now and then, this is not the way you should contribute to the discussions here.

It might be confirmation bias, but I've noticed an increase in the use of it lately. I was just waiting for the first question over at /r/asktrp posted as a greentext.

Everything's got it's place somewhere, but that place is not necessarily here.

[–]__var2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Is there a way to search for previously stickied posts? If not, can you create an archive of previous stickied posts?

[–]teeelo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think most of them get major upvotes, so sort posts by 'top' to get started.

[–]2IVIaskerade1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

One of the few thing that I find is that communication via things like email and forums is perceived as deadpan snark by default. I mean, it's not like we can be particularly expressive when we can't see body language or facial expressions.

Whilst I do think that the amount of snark/quick replies is too high, I'd always be a bit wary of automatically thinking people are being sarcastic.

I mean, the phrase "I totally agree with this person" just sounds like you're mocking them when it's texted.

[–]teeelo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well for the record, I do totally agree with you.

please dont ban me...

[–]1TRPingBalls1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What's this subreddit's stance on satire? For instance, I've written a blog that mocks SJW blogs by imitating their style on a ridiculous subject. Would this be an inappropriate tone to go with for this subreddit?

[–]teeelo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I love satire personally, read any of Gay Lube Oils posts to get an idea of a rocking good time.

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[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And you're gone.

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[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If done tastefully, it can make a point. Flipping the scripts is a useful tool sans hyperbole.

[–]questionnmark1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Low value participation is a waste of time for everyone. To parrot something I read today 'you're not just talking to a couple of people. You have an audience of potentially thousands of people reading your post'. If you were in a lecture hall with thousands of people present you wouldn't waste time talking about inane BS.

Reddit rewards crap, so it can be a hard habit to break, but I don't think this is the place for it. There are thousands of toilets on reddit for shit, and this place isn't called /r/thewatercloset (Euphemism treadmill lol). It could make for a good November pledge to not post anything low value anywhere for a whole month.

[–]sciencegod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There must be balance in all things- especially the need to get unbalanced every so often.

Also, be careful adding new rules to established systems. As you increase the complexity of any system, you inevitably reduce its reliability. This is true of energy systems and information systems that are made of both implicit and explicit rules.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

tbh this is very subjective- how can you enforce fairly...?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Nothing here will be enforced, it's a suggestion to up the quality.

[–]AzraelApollyon-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah, not happening. I'm sarcastic and an asshole IRL. Language of the passive huh? Perhaps in the circles you travel in, since when is being an outspoken alpha not RP enough?

[–]killthestone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just because you claim to be sarcastic and an asshole in real life does not make you an outspoken alpha here or any place on the internet.

The posturing and the egos on this sub is toxic.

Everyone should set an example for those willing to learn, or go do something more constructive with your time.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women love sarcasm dripping with thinly veiled hostility. So yeah, that powertalk shit works wonders on them... Doesn't fly so well in a room of men.

I have an acquaintance who constantly spins sarcasm with a straight face. He thinks it's hilarious. Deserted him as a friend because I can't trust anything he says.

[–]teeelo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Hmm, Interesting.

It just occurred to me that Agree and Amplify is sarcasm, so there is some conflict here. If men should not use sarcasm, then A&A is off the table.

Thoughts?

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[–]Endless_Summer-5 points-4 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is just your personal perspective. Sarcasm has nothing to do with being passive. It does correlate with intelligence, so maybe you feel threatened by it and make up this idea of it being an indicator of inferiority. Which it's not, at all.

Also, tone policing is against your own rules, which is what this post is.

[–]Modredpillschool[S,M] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Only snarky people think it makes them sound more intelligent. If you want a place to be snarky, go do it elsewhere.

This has never been, and never will be the place for that.

[–]the_red_scimitar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, it's an echo chamber. The very few who strongly agree have commented. The rest will probably not bother. A lot of people truly do not understand snark and sarcasm.

Guess what? There's already an acceptability mechanism, run by the mods. OPs personal preference is just exactly that, and clearly not many people felt inclined to voice agreement.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I always appreciate your input and modding on this sub. Yet again I feel you are shaping this sub in a positive direction. The way to wake people up is not to act like the people they believe of us irrationally, but to reason, to be sincere, and to be firm. Intelligence is almost always the way to go. However witty sarcasm to show a point more clearly is always appreciated.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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