Q4ALL: With more and more men failing to have sex at all, do you think western societies are moving in a polygynous direction? Do you think polygynous societies are sustainable in the long run? Are they doomed to fall apart due to the unequal distribution of sex?

daveofmars · 2018-11-15T21:59:32+00:00

No civilization has been poly for very long because men get disgruntled and turn over the apple cart. Pretty much every successful civilization has been monogamous or polygamous, but polygamy isn't very stable either.

Sharing mates with other people will always open you up to jealousy and anger, not to mention STDs. The fact that people in the poly community have to actively work against their natural emotions means most people aren't cut for it, and exporting that lifestyle to everyone will result in social chaos.

SkookumTree · 2018-11-15T21:41:24+00:00

I don't think they're "failing" to have sex, they're not really trying. Porn (among other things) is just making sex and women in general kinda not worth it.

ImJuliusPepperwood · 2018-11-15T21:31:31+00:00

I think you need to prove that less men are having sex. There have always been men who went without; the incel “movement” is simply a result of the internet.

Society is not moving in a polygynous direction.

Throawayqqqq · 2018-11-16T01:03:21+00:00

Humans have been monogamous only very recently in history. In fact monogamy and marriage are fundamentally anti feminist. A hard working man is rewarded with a loving wife and family, and the woman gets to feel protected.

With the sexual revolution and rise in feminism, society will only gravitate towards polygamy. If the 80% saw how ridiculously privileged the 20% are they would be up in arms.

But the key to keeping the society stable is to delude men into believing that it's their own fault for going sexless. That's why I believe although philosophically anti-feminist, RedPill upholds feminism in the long term by giving these men hopes, often times false, to overcome their sexlessness. Incels on the other hand are scary, because they threaten the fabric of civilized society, and are adamant that their inceldom is rarely of their own making, which is true in some ways.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-11-16T01:02:17+00:00

Poly societies are unstable for obvious reasons.

There’s been an unequal distribution of sex since the beginning of the sexual revolution.

Most men who aren’t having sex aren’t involved enough in society for them to be noticed, missed, or feared. They’re incel shut-ins who play video games and jerkoff all day.

jazztaprazzta · 2018-11-16T14:06:09+00:00

Quoting from The puzzle of monogamous marriage:

Reducing the pool of unmarried men and levelling the reproductive playing field would have decreased crime, which would have spurred commerce, travel and the free flow of ideas and innovations. Greater security would have reduced transaction costs and both public and private security expenditures. Instead of engaging in risky status-seeking endeavours, low-status males would be more likely to marry, thus becoming risk-averse and future-oriented, and focus on providing for their offspring in the long run. Higher status males, instead of seeking to attract additional wives, would make long-term investments and attend to their offsprings' security. More personal security and less crime would have meant that many more individuals could shift to investing in long-term payoffs, including businesses, apprenticeships and education.

Normative monogamy is the better choice if we actually want to have working institutions, commerce, education, etc.

Basically all of today's civilization is founded on monogamy. Once you remove monogamy you're back to 5000BCE.

blkarcher77 · 2018-11-17T04:28:47+00:00

I don't think so. I think sex robots will come about in the near future, and i'm incredibly interested to see how they affect social dynamics.

My theory is that women and men have different powers in the social scene. Women are the gatekeepers to sex, while men are the gatekeepers to relationships. I think we can all agree on this. You often hear "if a woman has sex with you, and she has nice underwear on, she decided to have sex, not you." On the other side, men are the ones who initiate romance for the most part. They're the ones that typically ask out girls, make the first move, etc.

Sexbots would shatter that. I'm interested to see what would happen

wemonger · 2018-11-16T00:58:26+00:00

Depends on whether or not you think a society with 77% of children born to single mothers where few men want to work is sustainable or not.

Here4thebeer3232 · 2018-11-15T21:38:29+00:00

We've had this discussion on here a few times. I think there was one just yesterday. There is no evidence that men are failing to have sex in droves. People might be having slightly less sex compared to a generation ago. But the average man is hardly sexless. Meaning the rest of your assumptions are mute until proven otherwise.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-11-16T18:13:25+00:00

why you people, i mean, males, say "distribution" of sex? women's bodies arent a commodity, you commie. no one is owed sex and love, period.

loser males should get hypnotized with something, VR and such , or threatened with forced castration should they ever entertain the thought of raping someone or demanding govt do something. the rest of us will have orgies with top tier partners.

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-11-15T22:36:04+00:00

Polygamy/ polygany is really the natural standard. Monogamy is not so common in the majority of living species, unless it’s serial monogamy.

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[deleted] · 2018-11-16T15:41:33+00:00

Nah.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2018-11-16T11:37:58+00:00

As I see it, the post-sexual-revolution would is new.

Back under tribalism, the strongest and most violent and ruthless (and often charismatic) men got the most pussy. That said, the women weren't always voluntarily participating in this system; dangerous warlords are dangerous, after all. It was sexual feudalism; give the local lord his 'cut' and in return he protects you.

Early pagan civilizations made it harder for women to be forced into sex although this still happened from time to time. Rulers still maintained harems, but there were many free women, and the rise of large civilizations meant more men could become "higher-ranking" and thus support families etc. For lower-tier males, prostitution (sometimes sanctioned as part of religion) remained available. We had a mixture of Sexual Feudalism with Sexual Capitalism.

The ideal and spread of Mandatory Monogamy caused a very large shift towards Sexual Socialism or perhaps a Sexual Welfare State is a more accurate way to describe it.

Now we're moving in the direction of a pure/laissez-faire Sexual Capitalism at least in theory, although obviously these political metaphors have problems.

Are we going back to the days of harems/polygyny? To an extent. Women can enter or leave any harem they want, and some women are members of more than one harem. So "sexual capitalism" is a better way to put it really.

Is this stable in the long run? That depends. How many men absolutely require a child to feel content with life? The reality is many men don't, and many men don't want a committed relationship with a woman in the first place (and most only desire one when they think such a relationship will be wonderful when the reality is there are big problems with such relationships... a more sober cost-benefit analysis would lead to these men thinking "nah, not worth it").

As sex substitutes proliferate, and to the extent gynocentric norms and gender-related pressure on men to prove themselves through crushing puss is ameliorated, the social situation we're in will be stable. However...

If the economy gets worse and if men remain socially chained to their gender role, I can see things getting worse. If men have to be pussy-crushing Chads to get social acceptance, some degree of self-esteem etc, and at the same time we continue with permitting the hookup culture we currently have, things will get worse.

blackedoutfast · 2018-11-16T00:08:29+00:00

humans are naturally somewhat polygamous. the reason for this is that in the past, many men would be murdered or killed off in battles with other tribes.

the solution to the incel issue is obvious. all men should be publicly questioned about their sexual success (or lack thereof). any man who can't prove that he is regularly having sex with women shall be automatically drafted into an incel army and sent off to wage war against the incel armies of every other nation.

meanwhile at home, the sexually successful men will be rewarded with harems of women.

Eartherry · 2018-11-16T05:20:23+00:00

I'll level with you, we might see rape go up. We don't have great methods for dealing with that right now. That won't pull society apart, not even close. But since there's also no solution for incels, and there isn't enough to terrorize society into compliance, they'll become public enemy number one. Any violence towards women will automatically be assumed to be because of them.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-11-15T23:25:21+00:00

I think there's too much jealousy for poly relationships to work as the majority in Western society.

abaxeron · 2018-11-16T11:30:22+00:00

I don't need to speculate; the vast majority of societies throughout recorded history were polygynous. From all the data we have at hand, polygyny is THE most stable and natural order of human tribe. I think monogamies are way less sustainable.

ragnorcock · 2018-11-17T15:43:11+00:00

From my vantage point, the West will follow some version of what Japan has become. Japanese men say that their women are "too troublesome and tiresome", the same complaint every nation has these days. As Japan perfects Waifus, the West will perfect VR porn. China has put all their eggs into the Robot companion for lonely men: https://dsdollrobotics.com

In every major culture where women vote, men are working on replacing them. Just like video games took a while to become mainstream, so to will robot-waifus be a while in development, but when they come out, men won't be lonely anymore. And that's a good thing!

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