Are women naturally inclined to believe the apex fallacy?

jax006 · 2018-08-16T19:16:36+00:00

I'd say both men and women are susceptible to it.

We just had that thread about people's perceptions of Average sex frequency. Guys answered those surveys with an apex mindset.

Makes perfect sense to think this way in a competitive environment, regardless of its rationality.

sublimemongrel · 2018-08-16T19:24:19+00:00

I’m not sure but I do see a lot of dudes here who seem to the bottom of the barrel is “average”, ie guys who like to claim most men are close to inceldom or can’t ever find a woman who feels genuinely attracted to him. To me, that’s not an “average guy”, that’s the bottom.

Ultimately I think there’s a lot of hyperbole when people try and argue x gender (I’ve seen both genders argued) “only see the top of the opposite gender and everyone else is invisible.” Like I find it difficult to believe that most people aren’t aware of a hierarchy when it comes to various “privileges” as you’ve put it, whether it’s in terms of power, money, attractiveness, etc.

Also to your last point - I don’t think being indifferent to lower tier people necessarily means you’re not aware of them.

IncomeByEtnicity · 2018-08-16T21:21:27+00:00

because they naturally tend to look to top tier men and at the same time are kind of indifferen/oblivious to low and middle class men?

I think this is only true for women who are in the highest wealth class. For working class and middle class (suburban church) women, this is not true because they have no access.

Celebrities and High fame individuals are not an accurate representation of the 1% or the top tier class of men. Go to a 2nd tier or a 3rd tier city and go to the Downtown area. You will find 20-40 year old 12 storey office buildings. Someone owns that building. And that single asset in itself makes the owner worth more than Robert Downey Jr or any Hollywood star. Now do the math. So many buildings, so many 2nd and 3rd tier cities. So many wealthy individuals. And that is just urban real-estate. Then there is Agriculture. Food processors, manufacturing etc. 98% of the high wealth individuals in this country, are people that the common man has 0 access to. Because of this extremely stratified nature of class in our society, it is very difficult for every day Stacy to court these men for anything more than a random Tinder one night stand in one of his Satellite homes. NOT REALISTIC.

KikiYuyu · 2018-08-16T20:25:55+00:00

Feminism does not = women.

[deleted] · 2018-08-16T22:10:59+00:00

Would you say that women are naturally inclined to believe this fallacy because they naturally tend to look to top tier men and at the same time are kind of indifferen/oblivious to low and middle class men?

Yes, this is most why they believe this fallacy.

Not only are women oblivious/indifferent to low and middle class men; they just don't see these men. At all. Because they aren't attractive and there's nothing distinctive about them. Women just don't see or notice them. You can't care about or observe something you cannot and do not see. If you cannot or do not see it, you don't know it's there.

Or even if you know it's there, it's not important at all to anything. It's something like dustbunnies on a wood floor. You know they're there. But they don't mean anything at all, they aren't relevant to anything, and they don't affect anything. So it is with how women see nonapex men: They know those men are there; but they register as sexual blanks. They're males, not men. They're irrelevant, and they don't affect those women's lives in any way.

It's why women are so repulsed when a man she's never noticed before, an average unattractive man, tries to act like an attractive man. That unattractive man suddenly shows up on her Man Radar - a place where that unattractive man is Not Supposed To Be. How dare that unattractive man act like an attractive man! This is not how it's supposed to be. That unattractive man needs to retreat back into the Sexual Blank Shadows where he belongs, so as not to clutter up the Man Radar Screen and so she can notice attractive men.

Eartherry · 2018-08-16T21:50:14+00:00

Feminist's real issue is based on the very real tendency to form in-groups with other men. This happens regardless of economic class with all deliberately excluding women, often so they don't have to reign in any unfavorable personality traits any women might see. This isn't a problem in lower economic classes as women are able to match the same level as a man, avoiding any avenues of unwanted influence from them. The same cannot be said of the ultra wealthy. It's bad enough that we in the lower classes have to bend to their will without recourse. But the fact that the majority are men is more of an urgency for women because men with unchecked power are often dismissive of women at best and oppressive at worst.

Bedtimeshine · 2018-08-18T10:19:47+00:00

True. It’s the same thing when when women say all men Are dogs. No just the men you want, that other women also.. men that have options and exercise those option instead of choosing you... are dogs. The majority of men are t even close to being dogs... but they also don’t gave that option.

abaxeron · 2018-08-16T23:15:35+00:00

Would you say that women are naturally inclined to believe this fallacy because they naturally tend to look to top tier men and at the same time are kind of indifferen/oblivious to low and middle class men?

No; only when there are 3 or more pedestals stacked under them. Exceptions to that rule include fiscally conservative nations that don't have excessive gynocentric welfare networks, and nations in the state of deep scarcity of resources and/or men where women actually have to work for a living. And not as accountants, social security clerks, or some sort of administrators.

Hystericalprince · 2018-08-16T20:02:02+00:00

Men look at the top women all the time, it’s just what people do.

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cateml · 2018-08-17T09:04:35+00:00

'Male privilege' - It does not mean what you think it means. Look it up.

(You can absolutely apply it to working class men.)

To answer your question 'Are women inclined to believe this fallacy' - yes in the sense that the whole point of fallacies is humans are inclined to fall for them.
But more so than men? Nah.

I mean, on this subreddit, I constantly come across men saying - 'Yes there are more male CEOs, but women tend to be working in cushy middle management jobs while working class men are labouring/in trades'. Completely ignoring that the whole point is the cushy middle management women are comparable to the CEO men. Working class women are more likely to be doing things like shop floor retail, home carers, cleaners, child minding, etc. - things that actually pay less and have less social prestige than their class-comparable male counterparts.

Part of the idea is that if women have positions of power in politics and business, that will be visible and influence how those organisations and the wider world view women, meaning that women will be considered more capable of valuable contributions and all women's roles will be considered more important and valuable.

Yes, the 'lean in' feminists are often a bit of an eye-roll. But thats because class privilege affects women as well. For every waspy 'its important that I get the corner office because feminism, I know the real struggle' type there is at least one male manager bitching about how unionism is about ganging up to shake bosses down for the lazy workers and why can't they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

nomansweb · 2018-08-17T11:02:55+00:00

Would you say that women are naturally inclined to believe this fallacy because they naturally tend to look to top tier men and at the same time are kind of indifferen/oblivious to low and middle class men?

This is part of it, another part of it is all human's innate interest in high status individuals, which is exacerbated by our culture (moreso in the US than in the rest of the West, but academic feminism mostly gets produced in the US and then exported to the rest of the West anyway).

iceicle999 · 2018-08-17T13:37:54+00:00

It's not just women that are drawn to it. Men do it too, to each other. I noticed for a long time that this gets brought up very often when men's issues are discussed. It is used almost constantly as a broad brush to dismiss any male issues. Just because some guy is well off and has a dick, doesn't mean he shares any of his "privilege" with other human beings that have dicks.

GridReXX · 2018-08-17T15:17:17+00:00

I think the original feminists were concerned with affairs in their own social strata.

Or their own purview.

I don’t think that’s Apex fallacy I think it’s consistent.

LeJacquelope · 2018-08-19T14:23:42+00:00

Yes, because it lets women escape responsibility for their actions and also gives women a scapegoat in the form of men. Why would women not be inclined to believe in it?

poppy_blu · 2018-08-17T00:50:33+00:00

Apex fallacy is human nature and you’re most victim to it when you’re frustrated by being in a place in life you don’t want to be and feel you have little to no power to change it.

When youre broke, it seems like everyone else is making ends meet but you.

When you’re single and lonely, it seems like everyones in happy relationships but you.

When your kids fuck up, it seems like everyone’s a better parent than you.

We’re all guilty of it to some degree.

passwordgoeshere · 2018-08-16T20:39:12+00:00

I'm not clear on how this is fallacious against feminism- Aren't working class men still more privileged than working class women?

[deleted] · 2018-08-16T20:15:47+00:00

Low value men, women don't go outside. Naturally you can cross them off

DXBrigade · 2018-08-17T23:23:46+00:00

Middle class women also provide to their families and they also contribute to society. Apex or not, isn''t the fact that top tier place are mainly held by men still a problem ?

Title	Are women naturally inclined to believe the apex fallacy?
Author	ifelsedowhile
Upvotes	6
Comments	105
Date	August 16, 2018 7:11 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/97v7g7/are_women_naturally_inclined_to_believe_the_apex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-women-naturally-inclined-to-believe-the-apex.261131 https://theredarchive.com/post/261131

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