Why do we punish shallowness in friendships but not relationships?

theiamsamurai · 2018-07-18T11:20:09+00:00

"Shallow" is a very vague catch-all buzzword the definition of which seems to differ depending on each thread.

Anyway. I don't think either of your examples is considered socially acceptable by most.

If your friends are suddenly only interested in you again when you're successful and wealthy, you will tell them fuck off.

If your ex-girlfriend, or girl you have a crush on, or whatever, is suddenly only interested in you when you're successful and wealthy, you will also tell them to fuck off if you're smart.

When it comes to "being in a bad place" though this is a delicate issue, it's easy to lose friends and girlfriends alike if all you do is dump your mental issues on people without also being fun to hang with.

Among my close friends we vent our issues now and then, but if someone spent all their time complaining about their problems and did literally nothing else they'd eventually get cast out. Yeah it's shit they're depressed but no one wants to be used as an emotional tampon and that's not a gendered phenomenon.

Gravel_Roads · 2018-07-18T10:54:31+00:00

We don't. The structure and function of friends/friend groups are different from relationships -- If anything, shallowness even in friendships shouldn't be punished. People are not obligated to sacrifice their mental wellbeing just because you aren't feeling well. It's not the sign of a bad person, it's the sign of a person with good boundaries.

That said, you are absolutely not required to tolerate a lack of empathy or depth in a relationship. I don't. Don't date people that don't treat you like you're valuable. People that can't do this from the start don't tend to get "better" with time.

[deleted] · 2018-07-18T11:36:23+00:00

We punish it in close friendships, but not casual ones. We do this because close friendships and your eventual life partnership are the most important voluntary relationships you ever have, so it's best you're picky.

Young_Oryx · 2018-07-18T16:13:55+00:00

Why do we punish shallowness in friendships but not relationships?

Who's "we"? You're welcome to tolerate or not tolerate whatever traits you want in your friends and romantic partners.

Personally, I don't expect friends to put in significant effort to take care of me if I'm "in a bad place." Nor would I expect them to financially bail me out if I were poor. That's just not their job.

Since when have people started expecting friends to fulfill the function that families traditionally fulfilled?

wtknight · 2018-07-18T12:21:02+00:00

Attraction is a different dynamic than friendship. People are attracted to other people who have qualities that they admire. People are friends with people who have qualities that they identify with.

NalkaNalka · 2018-07-18T16:08:15+00:00

"shallow" is one of those words that tell you a lot more about the person saying it than the person it's directed at.

CatchPhraze · 2018-07-18T19:41:31+00:00

Because most relationships are mutually beneficial. If the super hot middle class person didn't want anything to do with you romantically while you where fat or broke, but then became interested when you got your shit together, all that person is saying is I now think this relationship is a good deal for both of us.

You might have been that super cool person who thinks your personality is worth it, but that's just one thing going for you. Plus MOST people think they have a good personality. If that other person is also then rich or attractive, then they objectively had more then you to offer. You can either choose to accept this persons revaluation of you, or be bitter about before. That's really your right. But logically to me it seems fair.

OUcommawinkyface · 2018-07-18T21:51:17+00:00

Because your friends are your friends and your partner is your partner?

When your friend loses their job very little changes for you, when your partner loses their job everything from plans for kids to education to 'are we going to get evicted?' A friend with mobility issues leaves you maybe having to pick restaurants carefully and help them with doors, a partner with mobility issues leaves you with almost all the housework, having to schedule around driving them, changing the layout of everything in your life, caring for them etc.

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toronto87 · 2018-07-18T13:08:23+00:00

If you had a friend group that wanted little to do with you when you were in a bad place they weren't your friends in the first place.

goatismycopilot · 2018-07-18T13:47:59+00:00

Those people are not friends though, the ones who bailed when things got bad. Most people have a varying range of acquaintances based on some shared thing and very few actual bury the body with friends. If somebody treats me poorly, I cut them out, I don't give a speech or make some dramatic gesture, I just let them go. So I apply the same rule in my whole life, I am not going to form a bond with somebody who treats me badly.

kandyapplez · 2018-07-18T14:42:32+00:00

because friendships don't involve pooling your resources together and potentially creating a family unit, bringing children into the world, sharing property and inheritances

different things involve different standards because they're different

EdwardBarnes1913 · 2018-07-18T15:09:46+00:00

Most just do not punish any of those shallownesses. You just didn't pay attention.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-07-18T18:01:24+00:00

We don’t hang out with our friends because we like fucking them. We voluntarily hang out with them because we like them.

IncomeByEtnicity · 2018-07-18T18:47:23+00:00

I have not lived in a place with such a small dating pool, to have regurgitated partners, but I wouldn't never consider someone who has rejected a previous version of me. There are no mis-steps in your life. Every one of them, you needed to take, to get to where you are today. If you accept her, you are rejecting your own past. And that is dangerous.
The only exception would be that I might consider a business relationship with someone who had turned me down earlier when I was less established. The reason is, they never evaluated me as a person because I never gave them that level of access. They were only evaluating the work proposal I offered them and my experience in the industry.

thereddespair · 2018-07-18T19:19:43+00:00

are you shlonging your friends?
of course for your partner the rule bends

petrichordium · 2018-07-18T20:25:55+00:00

Friends are less exclusive than lovers. There’s less “zero sum” nature to different friend options. Having your fun, happy, successful friend you party with is not detracting AS MUCH from your close old friend in a weird place right now. Even then there’s a limit if they’re a broken record using you for free venting that allows them to avoid dealing with the roots of their troubles but still. It’s doable.

Lovers are different. Even in a poly setting, you’re bypassing a whole shit ton of opportunities with others to be with a selfish, sad sack loser stuck in a rut you’re enabling. Fuck that noise.

Eartherry · 2018-07-18T21:21:10+00:00

Friendships and romantic relationships are different in the number of acceptable boundaries that come with either type. Since friendships usually have more boundaries it's not as important to protect oneself in as many ways. Romantic relationships usually means fewer boundaries in fewer areas, making it more important to consider who gets to cross those boundaries and who doesn't.

nomansweb · 2018-07-18T11:13:41+00:00

Is this actually real though?

If you're 30 and still in your mama's basement playing xbox all day and complaining about your multi-year depression you got from lack of exercise, sunlight and vitamins, while your old friends have established careers and live on their own I doubt they're still your friends...

And on the other hand people definitely do look down on gold-digging hoes: your own family will probably warn you if one of those suddenly showed up now that you're successful.

Also, you don't have to live 24/7 with your friends...

Eastuss · 2018-07-18T11:36:13+00:00

Not just that. I noticed people friend circle are generally looksmatch.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-07-18T15:14:22+00:00

Wait, is this how the term beta bux came about? As a result of the shallowness of some women?

Title	Why do we punish shallowness in friendships but not relationships?
Author	EdwardBarnes1913
Upvotes	8
Comments	55
Date	July 18, 2018 10:44 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8zue8i/why_do_we_punish_shallowness_in_friendships_but/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-we-punish-shallowness-in-friendships-but.261481 https://theredarchive.com/post/261481

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