If you believe a person has a right not to be objectified, what justifies this restriction on the thoughts of another being?

rreliable · 2017-11-02T09:29:50+00:00

Because when people rail against objectification they're not talking about female bodies being used to sell cars and videogames and shit but about the secret thoughts of random redditors.

Aaren_Augustine · 2017-11-02T08:58:41+00:00

First you weren't allowed to DO things that triggered people. Then you couldn't SAY things that triggered people. Now you can't THINK offensive things that MIGHT trigger people.

Give 'em an inch they'll take the whole fuckin' thing.

goatismycopilot · 2017-11-02T11:14:49+00:00

I mean is that not an unenforceable right anyway? Do we make people wear little mind reading hats that deliver an electric shock current when they have a bad thought?

YetAnotherCommenter · 2017-11-02T10:18:28+00:00

Actually, Nussbaum's idea of "objectification" is a little more nuanced than you suggest. Its actually derived ultimately not from Dworkin or MacKinnon but from Kant.

Kant argued we should treat others as "ends in themselves" rather than "means to an end." The implications of this are still debated amongst philosophers, but Kant himself apparently thought that (for example) masturbating was treating oneself as a means to an end, and thus 'self abuse' which one had a perfect duty to never engage in.

The thing is, if you look at Nussbaum's idea of what constitutes objectification, men are the victims of it at least as much as women. Objectification isn't limited to sexual objectification. Indeed, political philosophers like Nozick argue that almost all governments objectify everybody.

wtknight · 2017-11-02T11:19:57+00:00

I think when people say this they usually mean "the right not to be treated like an object," which is a behavior restriction rather than a thought restriction.

Salty-Bastard · 2017-11-02T09:10:44+00:00

Post reported to the Thought Police.

tempuserthrowaway5 · 2017-11-02T10:29:37+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_thought

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html

You are thinking of freedom of thought.

A person is free to think all things, they may even be free to say most of them, they are not free to act on everything they think.

Butt-Factory · 2017-11-02T17:49:22+00:00

I don't believe it's a right, it's just a general expectation of general social etiquette and decorum.

If I ask a stranger what time it is and they refuse to tell me even though they have their phone in front of their face, my rights haven't been violated. They're just being an inconsiderate asshole. When a guy makes it obvious that he's checking me out and being weird about it, he's not violating my rights. He's just being a rude creep. It's only a violation if he crosses the line by touching or threatening me.

oneprettycoolcat · 2017-11-02T20:06:22+00:00

It's important to remember that most people don't want to be objectified, but they are fine doing it to others, especially when those others are men. See the thread about men paying for dates. That's nothing more than objectifying men as sources of money and resources but people are generally fine with it.

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BiggerDthanYou · 2017-11-02T13:58:11+00:00

(I don't really regard them as academics, despite their title, because they don't know or understand anything)

And mister "I don't understand it therefore they don't understand it either" strikes again. Have you ever considered getting your autism levels checked because they are clearly off the charts.

objectification is nothing more than a thought. That thought may or may not trigger actions in the real world by the person experiencing those thoughts, but objectification alone is literally just an arrangement of thoughts.

No one cares about your thoughts. We care if society and the media encourages these thoughts and discourages seeing women as people.

We care about objectifying actions. We care if you see a hot butt and just grab it without considering if the person that belongs to the butt might even like it. We care if you shout "nice tits" at any pair of tits that walks by without even taking the tit owners feelings into consideration. We care if women are only used as sexy background decoration in video games and told that their only worth is their looks. We care if you see a passed out chick and just start fucking her.

Until lately, thoughts have been considered as free from legitimate regulation by the community, and it was considered immoral to attempt to force individuals to adopt or abandon thoughts by external pressure.

Yet atheists, gays, communists, hippies and trans people have always been told that they should have different thoughts just because they didn't fit the societal ideals.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-11-02T13:29:04+00:00

You can think as you like, but you must behave like others.

Anyone remember that Law?

sublimemongrel · 2017-11-02T14:57:45+00:00

I don’t even know what this means. How am I supposed to know if someone is objectifying me if it’s just in their head?

ConnorGracie · 2017-11-03T08:01:58+00:00

I cannot force myself to value another person, if your value to me boils down to your genitals, then I accept that.

Title	If you believe a person has a right not to be objectified, what justifies this restriction on the thoughts of another being?
Author	rreliable
Upvotes	4
Comments	84
Date	November 2, 2017 8:23 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7aa5yh/if_you_believe_a_person_has_a_right_not_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-you-believe-a-person-has-a-right-not-to-be.265072 https://theredarchive.com/post/265072

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