In response to seeing some TRP posters making the argument that flirting and spending time alone with a guy you’re seeing is irresponsibly leading him on or is being dishonest in some way.

What do you think is normal when it comes to young people dating? Do you think it’s formal or everyone makes their intentions known before they get a chance to know someone (hence, before they likely even know what they want)? Here's how it typically worked IME and based upon my observations:

Step 1: Boy meets girl. Party, through mutual friends, social event, bar, class, campus, whatever. Start flirting, chatting, getting to know each other, exchange numbers, start texting, agree to meet up.

Step 2: Boy and girl decide to hang out with each other. HOW this budding relationship will be defined is yet to be clear or even understood by either party. Maybe they go to a movie or a party together. Maybe they get dinner. Or maybe, just maybe, she comes to his dorm room and they watch a movie. Maybe they choose to do public things for a few times and then privately spend time with each other. People do that too.

Step 3: He puts the moves on her (or vice-versa). It is either reciprocated or it isn’t. Maybe she only makes out with him. Maybe she wants to go a little further but not full sex. Maybe she decides it's too fast for any of it and puts the brakes on getting physical entirely. Maybe she decides she really doesn't like him and she stops dating/talking to him altogether after he leaves. Who the fuck knows, options are endless. (and before anyone gets all up in arms, yes I think she does need to be clear at this point if the answer is no). There is nothing wrong with him putting the moves on her just like there is nothing wrong with her saying no. This is dating.

Step 4: He needs to respect her decision (obviously). If he’s annoyed she didn’t want to go farther and/or impatient at her decision to wait, he can choose to stop dating her. What he doesn’t need to do is have a mindset of “the minute she passed my home’s threshold I expect to have sex.” Ya’ll are DATING. Nothing about your relationship is defined yet.

This is modern DATING for young people. Nothing in this scenario means she is a) leading him on in some irresponsible/wrong way or b) obligated to have sex with him or c) required to have some weird and awkward conversation with him prior to step 2 where she needs to say "hey just so you know, I'm not touching your dick tonight" (which would honestly come off as if she thinks he's an entitled asshole).

This behavior is DATING. I don't care that he feels "cheated" if she doesn't fuck him. Women have no amorphous duty to tell you whether or when they will fuck you while flirting with you or dating you. They probably don't even know yet. It is literally a part of dating to figure that out. How the hell do you date someone without flirting and/or possibly spending some time alone with them (god forbid it's at one or the other's house for a few hours)?

This is completely normal, IMO. If you think this is irresponsible on her part, then go seek out other abnormal people who follow your weird dating rules of “any positive attention given to man means you must spread your legs accordingly or you must hard reject him immediately.”

Flirting =/= any obligation to sleep with him. At best it implies she might potentially be into him for something romantic. Key word here is “potentially” not “definitely will and must make her decision on the spot right fucking now.” Flirting is a completely NORMAL and NATURAL way that young men and women communicate in social situations. Dating =/= any obligation to sleep with someone until you’ve decided that’s what you want to do and you’re ready to take that step with that person – even if that person invites you to a dinner and movie at their house.

It’s like some of you never went to college or dated as a young person. As a woman I certainly wouldn’t expect a man to decide – right then and there – whether he wants to LTR me just because he flirted with me and/or spent time with me getting to know me (even at my house just the two of us).

To me, the idea that there’s some duty placed upon women which requires them to immediately determine whether she will sleep with him and if she can’t figure that out immediately, puts some duty upon her to never spend time alone with him in a private place, is both ridiculous and ignores the realities of modern dating. Particularly when it comes to young people like college students who don’t always “officially” date or spend a lot of money doing so.

So my questions are:

  • How do you view modern dating, particularly wrt young people?

  • Do you think it’s dishonest for women to date men by seeing them in private places alone without sleeping with them?

  • Do you think this is unrealistic of the modern dating scene, particularly when it comes to young people?

  • Do you think either party has some “duty” to know what they want upfront and convey it instantly?

  • Do you think women have an obligation to be sexual with a man for flirting with him and/or dating him, even if that means she might “see” him alone in a private place?

  • Conversely, do you think men have an obligation to LTR women they flirt with and/or date?

Bonus question: Does anyone want to live in a world where there’s some obligation that women have to put out if they show any sort of positive reinforcement to men? Because that would essentially mean women would just stop dating altogether and wouldn’t put out until they have locked a man down for marriage.