Why do you think women say they want "nice guys" ?

SirNemesis · 2015-08-19T15:54:49+00:00

They assume attraction and then say what kind of behavior they would consciously prefer in a mate.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-19T17:51:56+00:00

/u/trpthrowrug has put it perfectly: "It's pretty hard to find a guy with options, who will treat a girl like she's his only good option."

It's probably the most persistant fallacy coming from bluepills, especially women - that they truly desire nice guys. Of course, what they mean is "a very attractive man who happens to be into me and treat me like a princess", and not a genuine appreciation of niceness. Now a redpiller will say it's bullshit and that they will swiftly lose respect for him if he plays nice, which certainly has been observed over and over again.

However, it also is only half of the truth: the other half is that a guy being nice is immensely practical when she's into him. Think of it: a nice guy is probably nothing like all the selfish traits a redpiller aspires to have. He probably never acquired abundance mentality. He didn't sleep around. When he had girlfriends, he felt under the obligation to preserve the relationships and make nothing to inconvenience them. He doesn't expect much out of relationships apart from a partner being elated at the thought of being loved by him. In other words: his love is self-sacrificing. A "nice guy" who is a 7 or 8 may settle with a 6 and actually be delighted that he wifed up a somewhat good-looking partner and be constantly doting on her, always being understanding, and always reassuring her of his devotion and practically do everything for her. In her mind, it's just her finally having gotten the good man she deserves after all those jerks when in reality, she got a high value guy who doesn't know it (but we know how skewed female perception of what's realistically within their leagues are). A good man who will always be there for her, a guy she is at no risk of losing, definitely a guy who won't just sleep with her and then send her packing; i.e. not like the sort of men women who complain about the lack of good men are falling for.

grendalor · 2015-08-19T16:32:30+00:00

As I said here:

...

... when women say that they want nice guys, they mean that they want that on top of being attractive otherwise. It's supposed to be understood that what they mean is a very physically attractive, confident, established, interesting, sexy man who is also a "nice guy". Most guys who consider themselves "nice guys" don't have any of those other qualities. So women opt for guys who have those other qualities, which are indispensable for attraction, instead of the unattractive guys who have the "nice guy" characteristics.

This is why TRP focuses on men bettering themselves to become more attractive, because attractiveness is 3 billion times more important than being a nice guy when it comes to women.

JP_Whoregan · 2015-08-19T18:18:32+00:00

Women know in their heart of hearts that they don't want to end up with an asshole. They want to end up with Beta Bux. But in the mean time, they don't have a problem fucking and sharing the scarcer, hotter "douchebag asshole" types who rail them doggystyle and don't call the next day. They don't need an abundance of hot Chad assholes because they're just fine sharing Chad with other women.

The reason TRP terrifies women is pretty much that if most men become wise to AF/BB, it ruins their whole strategy on them. The "natural alphas" will be mixed and clouded with the "had to work at it former betas", and in the mean time, more and more men will learn that marriage is a ripoff.

And God forbid, if the "nice guy" pool dries up, and more men refuse to settle down and marry women, who will these women have for a good divorce rape when they're 45 and want to sign up at a dating site like CougarLife?

Ballllll · 2015-08-19T15:54:32+00:00

I think they mean nice to them, which guys can interpret to mean nice to everyone, which is where the confusion sets in. Chad might be a dick to me but I know he treats his lady well.

Xemnas81 · 2015-08-19T16:46:17+00:00

They want an alpha with options and the power to leave or cheat if he so desired, but for her feminine SMV to command and thus terminate his polygyny in order to be the Alpha Bucks.

PostNationalism · 2015-08-19T16:11:47+00:00

Because they want, tall, handsome men who are also nice to them which is to say, men who won't cheat on them or dump them.

jayden695 · 2015-08-19T16:31:24+00:00

They want guys that are nice to them but also to be attractive. Somehow they usually leave out the second part when asked or forget to tell you that if your attractive enough, being nice really isn't that big of a requirement which is why guys get confused and later upset when they find out the girl that they were nice to is dating the biggest asshole they know

shogunofsarcasm · 2015-08-19T16:38:31+00:00

They say that when they want someone who treats them nicely and is respectful and whatever they view as attractive. That's it. They pretty much mean what they are saying

Ultramegasaurus · 2015-08-19T17:30:36+00:00

To uphold the delusion of women being more virtous, more civilized and morally superior in sexual relations. Women and their male worshippers hate to admit that the former have primal, unflattering and relatively predictable desires like men do.

That is why the common "nice guy" (scare quotes!) strawman is simply a rationalization method. By making him out to be evil and otherwise "objectively" unloveable, they justify their visceral indifference or dislike for the type of man a civilized woman is supposed to love.

Rufus_Reddit · 2015-08-19T19:31:03+00:00

I think that women talk about "nice guys" because they have little concrete insight into what they actually want, and "nice" is a conveniently vague term.

Do you want to eat nice meals, drive a nice car, work a nice job, and live in a nice house? Of course. But that doesn't actually tell you anything about what the meals, car, job or house are like, or if those expectations are sensible or reasonable.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-19T20:01:48+00:00

Do women say this to manipulate men like TRP believes ? Is it all a massive shit test to keep men into being beta bux ?

Of course not because, well, Hanlon's Razor. However, the online hate nice guys get is a glorious thing to behold:

not just unremarkable or of average attractiveness, but truly repulsive, and has poor personal hygiene on top of that
has nothing going for him beyond that (really. Everyone only seems to know jobless virgin neckbeards whose greatest exploits are video game highscores and who want a medal for basic human decency)
is a conniving backstabbing asshole who is willing to throw everyone and everything under the bus to ingratiate himself with a woman
is only nice to her as a means to an end, and his caring is always feigned and insincere (I have asked the question "why is it so outlandish that you treat a woman who is special to you also preferential, i.e. better than anyone else, and why does that suddenly make a guy insincere or a bad person?". Also, I wonder why retracting girlfriend privileges from a person who rejected you out of enlightened self-interest means that you have been insincere all along)
is always dishonest (I have also said more than once that (a) his crush is usually blindingly obvious and (b) he usually never outright states that he's only in it for friendship - of course that behavior is a buffer against rejection because he hopes that the girl will finally come forward, but again I wonder how having rejection anxiety makes him dishonest. On the other hand, the woman usually has an idea what he's up to, yet she still goes along with it because it's so convenient - which makes her the dishonest asshole if you ask me)
always gets first pissy and pathetic and then explodes into the face of the woman when he finally realized that she'll never date him
is usually punching faaar above his league (actually, can't confirm - the most devoted orbiters were hanging around rather unremarkable girls, most likely another buffer against rejection anxiety)
and only and exclusively wants sex with her and nothing else

I have a hard time finding nice guys who check more than one or two boxes, yet for some occult reason everyone on the internet only seems to know guys who check all or almost all of them.

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T20:25:27+00:00

Because they do. That doesn't mean they want some dyel doormat with no confidence.

obstinatebeagle · 2015-08-20T02:19:27+00:00

Because a woman wants a man who makes her feel "special"... but if and only if she already finds him attractive.

When a beta nerd tries to make women feel special, the more nerdy he is, the louder the sound of their collective "eeewww gross!" reaction.

SteelChicken · 2015-08-19T15:56:23+00:00

What women want and what society has conditioned them to SAY they want because of social pressure are two different things.

ilikegiraffes123 · 2015-08-19T17:31:41+00:00

If you want to get a good feeling of what women want, just read a bunch of romance novels that are specifically tailored for women. You will get the idea.

This will get you started:

Master of Desire

But wait, aren't you a woman, you should know anyway!

placenta_jerky · 2015-08-19T21:10:05+00:00

Well, here's why I want a non-asshole:

Because I do not have time for jerks. Enough of my time is already spent dealing with scumbag idiots who feel entitled to boss people around or be absolute egomaniacal chodenuggets. Why would I want to come home to that? If someone on my regular acquaintance list is toxic and shitty, I have no reason to make them a friend, let alone a lover. So to answer your question, it's because I hate spending time with not-nice people. I hope that didn't blow your mind.

They want someone who is nice, but not "just nice."

You know who is nice? My great aunt. Good lord, what a nice human being- always ready with a piece of hard candy for me to choke on, always willing to go help out making food for the homeless shelter. But daaaaaamn is she boring. My boss is nice too, but he's also one of the most boring individuals in the universe. So is the guy who runs into me at the dog park all the time, and the lady who lives next door.

*Oh, but placenta_jerky, they're so nice! You should spend time with them and hang out! Nah. I'll pass... because they are boring and can't hold a conversation past knitting or budget reports or his dog or her flowers. There are a lot of nice people in the world, I can't love them all. They have to be nice AND something else. There has to be rapport, there has to be common interest, there has to be a sense of humor, a reason to spend time with that person that differentiates that nice man from eeeeevery other nice shmuck on the planet. Being attractive helps. Nice + attractive is always a good start, that shouldn't blow your mind since you mentioned that in the original post. Nice + attractive + smart- now, there's someone I might be interested in spending time with. Add in some funny, add in some ambition, add in some opinions and you've got yourself a stew, baby. Nice is just one part of the equation, but it's still an integral part. So when women say they want nice men (NOT the infamous nice guy^TM ), it means they want nice to be in that equation because they don't have time for spending time with assholes. I think that's what we tend to mean.

dicklord_airplane · 2015-08-20T01:19:18+00:00

it's a half truth. i remember talking with my mom about dating many years ago, and she told me all the usual advice about what women want, but i got her to be honest after more probing:

"women want a kind, considerate, thoughtful guy. someone with emotional intelligence so that he can understand her feelings."

"i get that, mom. i've known that about women my whole life. but what if a guy is like that, but he's really timid, socially awkward, maybe out of shape, uneducated, bad career, and all that."

"oh well yeah, a guy needs to be good looking in her eyes, exciting, confident in himself, and charming first, and being successful is a huge bonus. he needs to be hot for his nice qualities to be attractive as well, of course." (emphasis mine)

This exchange with my mom really opened my eyes, and it was before the 'red pill' became a thing. lots of girls will only tell you half of the truth about what they want. they want those "nice" qualities in guys who are already hot due to completely different traits, but a lot of guys are lead to believe that niceness by itself is what makes a guy attractive. that's why so many dudes are angry and bitter. girls flip shit over a hot, confident, top-tier guy when hes shows a bit of niceness and sensitivity, but are indifferent or maybe even creeped out when a less attractive guy does it, and this is as confusing as the first level in Bloodborne when you're only given half-truths.

i don't resent this. it makes perfect sense; it's the complete package in a man. here's an example from a local female user:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3hmdiu/cmv_there_is_no_alternative_to_rtheredpill_or_pua/cu8pfyz

Lonny_zone · 2015-08-19T16:24:27+00:00

They want the attractive man with tons of options to buy them, but he won't, because free milk be drippin' errwhere all over him.

FallingSnowAngel · 2015-08-19T17:12:05+00:00

I think I'm just cute on my best days, and it would be nice to be good to people without worrying about them crushing on me and ~~complicating~~ ruining everything.

Obviously, looks play some part, especially for shallow people, but how important they are, and how much you need, varies.

lbspredh · 2015-08-19T18:34:12+00:00

That's just it, nice is one factor they want, on it's own it does not make an attractive person

MagicGainbow · 2015-08-19T16:15:36+00:00

Because the truth would make them sound shallow.

GridReXX · 2015-08-19T17:14:45+00:00

I think that when women say they want a "nice" guy , they imagine a caring person who is also attractive. They want someone who is nice , but not "just nice".

Duh.

:)

They say every good girl wants a bad boy, who is only gon' to be good to her.

And they say every bad boy wants a good girl, who is only gon' be bad for him.

-Theophilus London

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T19:17:15+00:00

It's an accurate statement if viewed within the context of female sexual attractiveness. Meaning, nice is an action, not a defining quality of the man they want.

Women want attention and niceness from the most attractive, physically fit, confident, successful, assertive, or whatever sort of qualities that specific female deems attractive. If a male in that caliber were to be nice to her, it's a turn on because that makes her feel special that despite this man having X Y Z options, he did something specific with her.

Ordinary men, whom do not meet the qualities of being attractive according to the specific woman, will not be treated the same way if they are nice, because there is nothing special or unique about being treated nice by such men.

gregariousnefarious · 2015-08-19T21:11:41+00:00

Yes, that's right. Nice, and attractive. I think the flaw in TRP reasoning is they think women want asshole dudes, but really women want courageous and adventurous dudes. Since those are in short supply, the cocky dudes often win, but they're not the actual "target demographic" so to speak

bonerdude420 · 2015-08-20T01:34:54+00:00

They want somebody nice, who is also attractive in other ways. Not rocket science. Its a criteria, not the only one

freebumblebee · 2015-08-20T14:35:52+00:00

Because we do want a nice guy. We just also want him to be other things. The best analogy I heard was that "being nice" is like the flour in a cake. You need to be nice, but if nice is the only thing you bring to the table, you're literally just a pile of flour. Not a cake. And I want a cake.

Also, everyone--literally everyone--wants to be with someone they're attracted to. There are plenty of socially awkward or otherwise hindered people who missed that message somehow (despite themselves wanting to be with someone attractive) but for most people, it's understood.

Title	Why do you think women say they want "nice guys" ?
Author	HappilySingleWoman
Upvotes	3
Comments	54
Date	August 19, 2015 3:48 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3hlhz0/why_do_you_think_women_say_they_want_nice_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-you-think-women-say-they-want-nice-guys.280216 https://theredarchive.com/post/280216

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