Are red pillers deluded to think that born betas can raise their SMV enough to have lots of casual sex with reasonably good looking women?

Whisper · 2015-08-11T21:52:06+00:00

Everyone who is alive is descended from a long line of men who successfully reproduced.

Most "betas" are not genetic failures who should hope to overcome their shortcomings, but genetic successes who have been programmed to fail with bad social conditioning and toxic philosophies.

TRP is about deprogramming these.

rdsthrowaway · 2015-08-11T09:45:41+00:00

Sure to tell a guy that he is gonna be banging top tier sorority girls when he is 50 is a flat out lie that only the best men can achieve.

But improving oneself can lead to a lot of improvement. My BP days I was probably a 3/10, now I can solidly say that I am a 7, and in the summer time a hard 7.5.

[deleted] · 2015-08-11T14:15:38+00:00

Let's dispense with the fantasy that an omega nerdyboy neckbeard is going to be banging supermodels. That is not going to happen, not now, not ever.

What's realistic is that a man can, with hard work, bump himself up one, maybe two, SMV points. What he can do is get himself to a place where he can make a relationship work with a woman who is -1 SMV point to him.

Take your average man, SMV 5 at his base. With work (lifting, losing weight, style, attitude and career) he can get himself to SMV 6, maybe (MAYBE) 7.

What most guys have to do is decide the following:

What work realistically needs to be done to get there.
What the SMV gains realistically will be.
Whether he can be attracted to the women he can reasonably pull when he gets there.
Whether the work he needs to do is worth the effort, time, and money expended in the long run.

Most men:

--decide the work isn't worth it and stay where they are or get worse

-- try to do the work and it gets too difficult so they stop

-- don't really know what to do so they don't try

Another thing a man needs to do is get the education on social and sexual dynamics that TRP teaches. Too many men are willing to wife up a slut or a whore without knowing what they're getting themselves into. They don't understand attraction, AFBB, female sexual strategy, what women find attractive, and what works to manage a relationship. Learning that is really half the battle.

those are the issues, really. In today's world, a man won't gain more than a point or two. He needs to decide whether that's worth it and then do the work, or decide it's not worth it and be content with where he is.

meehan666 · 2015-08-11T15:25:23+00:00

Is /TRP wrong when it tells him that he can raise his (all around) SMV enough to completely turn things around and have a much better experience on the dating and/or sexual marketplace? So much better, that he could have never imagined it before?

Not wrong at all. I'm 5'8", used to be about 120 pounds. Beta as fuck, thirsty as fuck. Wifed up the first woman that showed me attention. Post-divorce, jumped into a LTR with the first chick I had the nuts to hit on (a solid 3). Etcetera.

Fast forward to age 40. Solid 185 pounds, not fat. Decent job, car, my own house. Dumped the LTR, spinning plates. If you'd have gone back 25 years and told beta me that I'd be picking up women and fucking them on the first date, running a soft harem, having women asking if they could come over for sex, sending nudes, I'd have been astounded.

These women aren't supermodels, they're mostly 4s and one's a 5. But they're not too fat, not too ugly, not too crazy, and eager to please both in bed and out. Most of them have solid academic/career backgrounds. Yes I still strike out/get shot down, yes I can't plate every chick that I can bang, yes I'm still a lame beta in many ways. Climbing out of the hole halfway I can see how far I have to go and how far I've come.

If I were to peg myself on the HB scale by the women I bang and their reactions ("why are you with me") I'd put myself at a 6. Considering I was a 2 before (judging by the ex wife) that's a +4 SMV swing. Most of which came in the past year or so as I began to work on game. If I had tight game I'd gain another point.

max_peenor · 2015-08-11T15:50:20+00:00

I am of the firm belief that that lots of young males lose a couple SMV points from the stream of bullshit fed to them by their single mothers or ball-busting mothers while their BB fathers hide in the corner, as well as the prevalent media. Beta traits can be a pathology that only a red pill can cure.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2015-08-11T09:54:54+00:00

You can be butt ugly and have money or status and still get good looking chicks on the regular. Granted, your interactions with them will eerily resemble prostitution.

However if you're hard working, smart, have your shit together, and are a solid partner, there's bound to be at least one female out there who digs you for you. Then you can get good sex on the regular. Make sure you screen her carefully though. And read some self help books and find a therapist if you suspect yourself of slipping into beta-dom. And ditch her if she sucks.

I think, used well, TRP sets men up for the latter nicely. It's kind of like a child or adolescent pushing their boundaries. Once you actually experience the dating market for a time you learn your worth/mettle. Then you're less inclined to take shit in a relationship.

f3yleaf · 2015-08-11T11:43:16+00:00

There are some things people cant change, but the average guy can become "hot" by choice. Game/flirting is 100% learnable skill and confidence can be aquired thru concious attitude change and positive reinforcement.

I hate when guys say they must discover themselves, thats mostly bullshit, we create ourselves either conciously or subconciously, chosing to not kiss girls asses is like dropping any other bad habit, same with adopting a cocky positive attitude to life, stuff gets internalized pretty fast and becomes a part of a persons personality, nothing fake about it.

[deleted] · 2015-08-11T09:23:04+00:00

Some people are naturally attractive because of their looks , not everyone can improve their SMV enough to become a HB 10 but they can at least try to become better.

dragoness_leclerq · 2015-08-11T12:47:28+00:00

Is /TRP wrong when it tells him that he can raise his (all around) SMV enough to completely turn things around and have a much better experience on the dating and/or sexual marketplace? So much better, that he could have never imagined it before?

In some respects, yes, though not always. I think TRP could help most men improve their SMV enough to help them do better in the SMP than they were previously doing before.

However, I think it's very important to be realistic and keep things in perspective. It is unlikely a guy is going to go from being a 2 to an 8 (unless he wins the lottery I guess) just as it is probably unlikely a guy is going to become a 7 and find himself banging 10/10 hotties every night. At a certain point it becomes up to the individual guy to get a read on his r-SMV and adjust his expectations accordingly. Will the average RPer end up slaying coeds daily or having "lots of casual sex"? Nah, probably not. But he can probably wind having a fair bit more encounters than he otherwise would have.

The only real issue I have is the emphasis placed on money and how sometimes TRP seems to ignore that not every guy is just going to magically become wealthy and successful (and enough to attract lots of young HB9s at that) once he reaches a certain age because ~ reasons ~. It just doesn't work that way yet I've seen a decent number of guys who seem to be holding onto that hope unrealistically. Yes, you can raise your SMV and even your income but a 26yr old beta 4 machinist is unlikely to become a super alpha millionaire 9 by 35 because he red pilled hard enough or whatever.

Still, he can definitely dramatically improve his prospects.

blametheboogie · 2015-08-11T15:53:49+00:00

"Genuine"(biological) betas are rare. How rare? Fuck if I know. But most men are masculine, that's kind of the point.

Your average Joe who was simply brainwashed into being a blue drone can certainly still be saved.

[deleted] · 2015-08-11T16:08:50+00:00

One of the things that bothers me the most about the BP mainstream is how they try to take down those who seek self-improvement. Alpha and beta are absolutely relative. Everyone, even the lowest omega, has room for improvement.

It's pretty Cathedral and fatlogic to believe that only the "elect" can succeed (because, privilege) and that the rest of us are all "sinners". That's where PUAhate came from.

PUAhate emerged from the slackers who made a pretense of game while having no real inner game and developing no real inner game. Many unattractive guys can and do pull well.

PUAHate can get all the lip injections and booty shots they want, but the inner game is still not there. There are plenty of aesthetic boy models not men with no inner game who still can't get laid, so they turn gay and old men objectify them.

[deleted] · 2015-08-11T11:30:25+00:00

False hope??

I'm confident almost any man can do better with women in the future then they have done in the past if they are willing to put in the effort to improve.

Most people don't try and then think whatever "self-help" they read about doesn't work.

The failure is always in the individual, thinking that you can obtain the quantity and quality of pussy that a celebrity does should never cross a normal guys mind because it's ridiculous and the red pill is a reality based approach.

[deleted] · 2015-08-11T14:18:25+00:00

Yes, anybody can raise their smv, men or women.. I was before average in high school, then started lifting and making good money.. By the time I was in my 20s I had no problem picking up girls.

Heck it's surprising what just a small adjustment makes.. When I was 32 I was sitting at about 17% body fat, did a cut down to 9%, and was hot on constantly.

Nazrath2112 · 2015-08-11T14:32:56+00:00

A good number to work towards is a +3. Any less than that, then you are not trying hard enough. Any more than that and you get diminished returns. So a 5 could easily work hard at it to become an 8 but they wont get much higher than that.

Lonny_zone · 2015-08-11T15:19:11+00:00

I think it is unreasonable to say that people are capable of raising their SMV beyond a point or two.

AnOldRichDude · 2015-08-11T15:40:03+00:00

Let's just say off the bat - Some people are doomed. If you have no intelligence, talent or physical attributes, you are screwed.

However, if you are reasonably smart or talented in some way, you can work hard and become successful which raises social status and that combined with hard work in the gym, great cloths and confidence will get you somewhere after college.

If your physical attributes are ok (decent face, height, right type of body), you can put in the effort much earlier and you'll do fine by college.

That said, even the worst can find someone if they lower their standards enough. I went to a Nick Offerman show (My wife and I were by far the oldest and no idea what the audience would be) recently full of hipster overweight literal neck-beards (as in they actually had unshaven necks) who were paired up with their equivalent female types...and they seemed happy.

Xemnas81 · 2015-08-11T15:59:48+00:00

Reasonably good looking? No. At least 80% of women are reasonably good looking.

caesarfecit · 2015-08-11T16:30:30+00:00

Well I'd tell OP the same thing I'd tell any girl:

looks hit diminishing returns around 8/10.

Everybody likes and is attracted to attractive people. But you can take a great looking person, guy or girl, and give them a shitty personality/no game and they'll underachieve in the sexual marketplace.

I guess what I'm trying to say is everybody has a ceiling of superficial attractiveness that one can't really expect to raise without extraordinary effort/luck. Most guys can only make so much money, and most girls will only be so hot for so long. These aren't set in stone, but the harder you push on it, the less return on investment you get.

What's more important is to be your best self and capitalize on what you do have. Get in shape, get your career/social life on track, and make yourself presentable. Failing to do so is just leaving money on the table and giving yourself an unnecessary handicap.

Just remember that the difference between a 6 and an 8 (guy or girl) is one is in fighting form, the other isn't. While the difference between an 8 and a 9 is 90% mental.

adrixshadow · 2015-08-12T08:32:56+00:00

Beta is a mentality, alpha is a mentality, TRP is a mentality.

SMV is not a mentality but a value. It can be raise to some extent with effort and knowledge.

If you approach 1000 women it is inevitable that you succeed to a certain percentage. If you have a higher SMV that percentage increases. But it is the mentality that gives you the will to approach 1000 women.

Beta cannot approach 1000 women, they will give up. Even alphas will have difficulty to that extent. A true TRP trains his mentality to approach 1000 women.

Yes this is an exaggeration but this is to give you a clear idea on the matter. There are very few that can handle that kind of pressure.

wtknight · 2015-08-11T11:56:23+00:00

I think that the biggest thing that TRP improves is not a man's appearance but his confidence. Just the belief that the Red Pill system is working will likely give a man better confidence when interacting with women. TRP isn't going to give these men a happy relationship, and the inner qualities of the women that these guys find are probably going to be minimal (which just feeds on their "women are inferior" narrative), but if your goal is just casual sex, then I think that TRP can achieve that for men who have the patience to apply it to their life. You might not get the women that the natural alpha Chad can get but they will be somewhat close appearance wise.

ConvertsToMetric · 2015-08-11T11:45:51+00:00

Yes, a substantial proportion of them believe this. I remember them once telling a 5'2" guy that with proper frame he could regularly bang hotties. Unless you're overweight or you get lucky with money/status the most you can improve realistically is 2 points.

GridReXX · 2015-08-11T12:11:39+00:00

He can always become better than what he was. No one is saying he'll reach male model status.

redmachines · 2015-08-11T20:13:57+00:00

I hate the term beta and alpha because people extend the meaning to behavioral traits instead of leaving it at attractiveness. Using the latter makes everything simple. But adding behavior to it makes it too complicated. Is an attractive mangina sleeping with tons of women a beta or an alpha? What about the fat omega neckbeard who doesn't care about what women think of him?

thebroathlete · 2015-08-13T01:50:41+00:00

There is a lot a guy can do to raise his value, especially when it comes to bettering his looks.

He can lift and even take supplements to get the nicer body.

Face can be improved after fat loss but if problems persist, surgery is amazing and can do wonders to a guy's looks. These days surgery keeps getting better and better.

They design shoes which can raise a guy's height by a few inches, maybe he should get those.

Title	Are red pillers deluded to think that born betas can raise their SMV enough to have lots of casual sex with reasonably good looking women?
Author	GuitarsAreGettingOld
Upvotes	3
Comments	52
Date	August 11, 2015 8:47 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3gkkxt/are_red_pillers_deluded_to_think_that_born_betas/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-red-pillers-deluded-to-think-that-born-betas.280376 https://theredarchive.com/post/280376

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