If slut shaming exists in our society, why isn't the idea of LMR plausible?

[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago* (155 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean "IF" slut shaming exists in our society? Have you even read any Red Pill mumbo jumbo? Because if so, this post wouldn't begin with "If."

Pillers are the worst slut shamers. They want to bang everything that moves, but they think they can assert their superiority over everything they bang. It's actually kind of self depreciating when you think about it to have such a low opinion of the women who lower themselves enough to bang the likes of you, but whatever, none of TRP makes sense so it's to be expected.

Back to the question at hand, more half formed thoughts to dismantle. Last Minute Resistance is a concept created by TRPers to justify continuing to push when a woman says no or in the case of a TRPer female, demurely tries to get out of the situation. Women are taught not to speak up for themselves and to try not to offend people. There are SO MANY reasons a woman could be giving 'last minute resistance' that a discussion about whether or not there are SOME women that do it because they don't want to be called a slut is irrelevant. Sure it might be because she doesn't want to be called a slut, and she's still telling you no. Why is that not a valid reason? Especially when you KNOW you are going to coerce this person to have sex with you and then run off and tell your buddies what a stud you are (lol) and what a slut she is (also lol).

Tl; dr. Even in the scenario listed above (which is one of MANY reasons she may be resisting your advances), her fears are completely justified, and it's a valid reason not to want to have sex with you. It doesn't make you coercing her into sex any less rape-y and gross. Period.

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[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (81 children) | Copy Link

You don't get to consent and then withdraw it after the fact because "coercion".

Yet another RP lackey with no concept of what consent is. Consent can be withdrawn WHENEVER the person giving it wants to withdraw it. Let's imagine that consent is like "Hey I'll let you borrow my playstation." because I know this is something you might be able to actually relate to. Now if X woman says "Hey you can borrow my playstation" and then she sees you getting rough with it and bashing the controllers on the ground she may say "Yeah I want that back" or if she sees you're not really valuing the playstation and she just wants to take it back, she can take it back at any time because it's hers, NOT yours.

Her body is NOT YOUR PROPERTY. Not in the event that she consents to having sex with you or if she doesn't. Her body is HER property, and she can revoke your access to it at any time even smack dab in the middle of sex if she feels like it.

This is your fundamental misunderstanding. It's like you think if she says yes we may have sex, that means you have some form of ownership of her body, when you in fact don't and never did. Brush up on consent because you have no idea what it is.

And let's all ask ourselves why an incomplete or just incorrect idea of consent is so common in TRP world.

[–]StabbyPantsPillhead8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (72 children) | Copy Link

Is this a joke? Are you trying to punk me? I literally QUOTED your comment where you made an incorrect statement about rape. Here it is again:

You don't get to consent and then withdraw it after the fact because "coercion".

While it's.....cute.....that you think you're 'calling me out,' you would have had to actually not have SAID something rapey for you to be able to call anyone out about explaining to you what actual consent is.

Comparing consent to borrowing a video game console is ludicrous.

It's called an analogy, and the reason I used it is because you seem to think consent is a one time deal and after it's given it can't be taken back. WRONG. If I explained it to you in technical terms, would you understand then? Because I can go back and try it.

if you're one of those whackjobs who actually thinks that you can withdrawal consent after the act is finished,

WHAT?! What are you even talking about? First you say you can't withdraw it at any point, now you're acting like you were saying you meant withdraw it AFTER the act is over? Please get your damn story straight or shut up.

ETA: This may be an actual miscommunication: when you say after the fact are you saying after the entire sex act has occurred? or are you saying after it was given initially?

[–]tepper2Red Pill Man4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (63 children) | Copy Link

You can't withdrawal consent after sex, then claim it was rape. The man was under the impression that he had consent, and feelings don't give you the ability to turn back time.

It's called an analogy, and the reason I used it is because you seem to think consent is a one time deal and after it's given it can't be taken back.

I never said that, because I don't believe that's true. All this bullshit about "owning" her or whatever you think RP men do is also false. In fact, there's a saying: "You don't own her, it was just your turn."

She says stop in the middle of coitus? Yeah, stop. But you can't lend somebody $20 then tell everybody they took money out of your wallet.

If I explained it to you in technical terms, would you understand then? Because I can go back and try it.

You are a very angry person, you know that?

First you say you can't withdraw it at any point

I didn't say that. I said You don't get to consent and then withdraw it after the fact (copied and pasted directly from my original response). No matter how consent is given, you can't come up with an excuse afterward to take it back.

This may be an actual miscommunication: when you say after the fact are you saying after the entire sex act has occurred? or are you saying after it was given initially?

After the entire sex act, obviously. Take off your goddamned rage glasses and act like an adult because I'm one more outburst away from putting you on the "don't bother replying to" list.

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[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

when questioned apparently the "TRP strategy" is to back completely off.

Because it's calling their bluff and making them take some responsibility for the having of sex (some women find it hard to square their view of themselves with the fact that they acted so "dirty"). It's actually a way to avoid them blaming you later for "pushing" them into having sex, among other things.

Not that this is 100% effective. When I was young, I had a couple of women who took all of the initiative on sex, but, when the relationship went south, still found a way to make it clear that the all of the sex we had was entirely my "fault" - that they were "good girls" and never would have done what they did with anyone else, so, clearly, it must have been my fault (despite the fact that they led the action)...

So it's not really last minute resistance if you get nothing and she says no.

Right.

If she says no, and you stop all forward action, demonstrate total control over yourself and your sex drive, demonstrate the fact that you did not, in fact, have any attachment to a specific outcome (because you recognize your own value and the relative value of sex with any other one person to your own value), and she remains a no, then you want to welcome that outcome because A) you dodged a bullet on a negative interaction at best, a rape allegation at worst, and B) you can stop wasting your time and focus your energy on what is important to you (for me, it often looked like "getting some sleep" - never a bad thing).

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

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It still isn't rape, regardless of how you twist it. If "either we have sex or I bail" is rapey on your eyes, "if you don't borrow me 1000$, or I don't love you anymore" would also constitute blackmail. I hope you realize how dense that is, but since we're having this discussion, I strongly doubt it.

By the way, I can't recall saying 'after the fact' in this context. But yeah, the only rape in a situation where you decide after giving consent and doing the deed "gosh, I think I just got raped" because you aren't happy with the aftermath, is the rape of the legal system. To quote Martin Amis: "if you ask me, a woman may change her mind before having sex, even during having sex, but please not after having sex."

ETA: Also, I hope you never hold office just on the basis that TRP is toxic and anyone who holds these views is also toxic.

Aaaaaaw.

[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you're like, okay I'm going to take off, she's going to see you were only out for the one thing and probably lose interest. Depending on the woman, she may have a different response, but I know I would've lost interest.

Which is exactly what you do to overcome LMR. You don't manipulate and you for sure don't fucking whine (ever, about anything related to sex - ever). You coolly, calmly, and collectedly deescalate the situation (sans any thought of being passive aggressive, since you truly aren't attached to any specific outcome, right? Because you know that you can be back in this situation with a different woman who might be more on your wavelength, right?)

And, funny enough, I can't remember a time that they truly lost interest. A woman isn't half-naked in my bed for two hours on our first date because she failed to realize where my interests lie. I'm surprised that you have such a low regard for women's reasoning abilities - you sound like half the users on TRP.

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[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"alrighty then - thanks for a great night and see ya' round...",

READ THE POST I RESPONDED TO. JESUS H. CHRIST. How can you possibly hope to form a cogent argument to something when you take everything I say completely out of context to twist it around to suit your argument?

I find saying things like "You blew it [because you wouldn't fuck me], I'm leaving bye." to be petulant and whiny and threatening. If you had READ any of the replies to me, my replies TO THOSE REPLIES might make more sense. Have you ever considered that?

I'm sorry, but I won't treat women like such weak creatures.

Yes you do tend to regard women in such high esteem when you treat them as subservient lower class citizens. Thanks for the oozing respect you show all the women you carelessly fuck and then toss aside for the next piece of ass on your radar. Truly what a stand up gentleman and diplomat.

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

to be petulant and whiny and threatening

First of all, I've never heard "petulant" and "whiny" and "threatening to the point of coercive rape" all in reference to the same phenomenon.

"He was being petulant and whiny and acting all passive-aggressive, so you can clearly see why I was so terrified for my life that I felt I had no choice but to let him rape me..." That seems a bit ludicrous.

And the "petulant and whiny" thing - really? That's you're problem with TRP's strategy to overcome LMR? That's it? Then why didn't you say, "Well, I get what you guys are dealing with, but it sounds like you're being all petulant and whiny and passive-aggressive and it might work better if you were more smooth in your execution (which is, incidentally, exactly what I have said on TRP regarding some guys' responses to LMR).

Why all the sturm and drang about evil TRPers and "RAPE!" and what not? Or are you just interested in that yummy, yummy self-righteous drama?

Yes you do tend to regard women in such high esteem when you treat them as subservient lower class citizens.

You can think what you want about me, but it seems to me that, of the two of us, I'm the one treating women like adults with a full capacity to act as their own agents in a situation, who are empowered enough to be responsible for their own choices and actions, who don't need my paternal "guiding hand" to help them through any given situation. I treat women like the big girls they are - I'm not going to make assumptions about what is and is not "best for them", and I'm not going to tell them how they should conduct themselves. If they are hanging with me, they are big enough to handle me in kind. Our relationship is a two-way relationship. In that way, I actually do treat them as equals.

Your way seems to indicate that I am, by default, in the "superior" position to them, that I somehow need to be responsible for their responses and actions because...I don't know. They are weak? Susceptible? Impressionable? Unable to handle a "big bad wolf" like me?

Sorry, I tend not to associate myself with women like that.

Thanks for the oozing respect you show all the women you carelessly fuck and then toss aside for the next piece of ass on your radar.

And that just makes me lol. So, engaging casual sex makes me "careless" and "disrespectful". I thought women enjoyed casual sex as much as men? What happened to that argument? If we both get what we came into the situation for, they are still somehow a victim of big bad me. Don't worry, I've run into that attitude before, but the logical leaps you guys attempt to pull off are astounding in both their scope and their subsequent failure. They impressed me when I was young and naive, but they don't impress me anymore.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man[🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]M_rafayCrimson Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The point is there is no slut-shaming. I'm not doing something shitty because I'm talking about what I want to talk about in my space. I'm not pushing it in your face or making you feel bad.

Take talking about muslims or drawing Mohummad. In my space. I may be unbelieving or being Islamophobic, but I'm not "shaming" religious people. I'm not committing any sort of hate crime.

Slut-shaming is somehow less ok than publishing cartoons of people's god or holy figures as pigfuckers on reddit. Unbelievable.

I could get front-paged 10 times in a row for the latter, which is arguably more of a hate-fueled act by the masses. While everyone would be up in offence about slut-shaming, in an obscure reddit.

You PC people are so deluded and you wonder why the redpill thinks you're nuts about PCness. The RP's policy on use of language and harshness has always been that we are not talking about any subject matter that is any more or less delicate than what's talked about with impunity outside. Topics such as men, muslims, animals, etc are fair game to generalize and trash. Women are similarly not a protected class. They will not be treated with the kid-gloves of minorities. They will be described and discussed in terms of their usefulness, in the context of sexual strategy.

Slutiness correlates with dramatically more rubbish LTRs. This is a scientifically backed, rigourously tested assertion with not a shred of evidence to the contrary. And so sluts are denigrated on TRP for LTRs, and loved for everything else. And us discussing this, does not make us slutshamers.

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[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't associate yourself with a community if you don't want to be linked to it.

My only association with the community is a result of our shared interest in looking at sexual dynamics from a different perspective.

I have not interacted directly with anyone apologizing for rape. Were I to find myself interacting with someone apologizing for rape, I would make my stance known.

Many years ago, I used to be a Christian. I was never antagonistic to homosexuality, though I realize that many, many Christians (not just the Westboro Baptist Church) are. For me, being Christian =/= anti-homosexuality. There is no basis in the religious teachings for that view, IMO, but I have no interest in trying to convince all Christians everywhere that they are believing it wrong (I think many, many Christians get most of the religion wrong, even though I no longer have a dog in the fight).

I support homosexuals, I will never back down from my support, and that's enough for me.

Likewise, I think rape is abhorrent, I will never back down from that, and that's enough for me.

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your TRP community has a rape apologist problem.

TRP is not "my community." My allegiance is to the Red Pill paradigm for sexual dynamics, not to TRPers.

I appreciate those TRPers who get the paradigm as I do - I have no use for those TRPers who don't.

My understanding of Red Pill concepts is not associated with a "rape problem" nor does it lack a knowledge about true consent. And, last I checked, "rape problems" and a lack of knowledge about true consent were not exclusive (at all) to TRPers. Many men might have difficulty with those two issues - I don't see it as my mission to set them all straight. When it comes up in my experience, I will set people straight, but I don't have the resources nor the interest in fighting for widespread social justice (hence my relative disinterest in MRA, for example, despite the fact that I might agree with those guys on several things).

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ianturpiesmoustache3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

LMR is simply the idea that a woman doesn't want to be considered a slut, so she puts up a defense such that later she can tell herself that she isn't a slut because she said "no" at first.

You can label any "no" as LMR, but a lot of the time no just means no. It really can be, and often is, that simple. Pretending otherwise is just ignorant and dangerous.

I see a lot of talk about how women need to take responsibility for being clear about what they want. I don't see why men shouldn't have to take responsibility for ignoring clear communication.

It's also considered a "shit test" because of this: women like men who are experienced at sex. Experienced men understand LMR; inexperienced men don't. Your reaction to her LMR tells her if you are a sex god or a clueless asexual.

How do experienced men react to this differently from inexperienced men, exactly? TRP talks about "pushing past LMR", but when criticised they qualify it by saying that it really means "backing off" or some such rubbish. The definition of "push past" is nothing like just stopping and seeing what happens. It really seems like they're downplaying what they're actually suggesting to avoid being called rapey, or don't have any interest in using correct terminology.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Suppose someone wanted to see if you were a good candidate for upper management.

They want to see how you will react under stress.

They walk into your office, accuse you of misconduct, and threaten to fire you.

You, knowing that they are probably just testing you (because you know that you've been doing great on all your reviews and that they think you are a model employee), respond with decorum. You calmly say "I understand. I deny the accusation of misconduct, but I accept your decision. May I have the rest of the day to clear out my desk and workload, or would you rather I leave immediately?"

They are impressed at your decorum and confidence and say "Oh wow, we were going to fire you to see how you handled it but we're really impressed! You can stay!"

You made it passed the test. You suffered humiliation and rejection with honor, pushing away your insecurity. You were tested, and you passed it.

Alternatively, it's not a test, or you don't know if it is or it isn't. However, you still maintain a modicum of grace and self-respect because you were fired for real but handled yourself well. Maybe they just didn't need you anymore, but you know you did your best.

When someone puts resistance to your goals in your future, either they are testing you (token resistence) to see how badly you need it and how emotionally intelligent you are, OR they are serious. Either way the right strategy is cool acceptance because you never know what it is.

Inexperienced men get blubbery, sad, emotional, angry, frustrated, sad, etc. When informed of their being let go from the company they go on a rampage and send angry emails to everyone. They yell at their boss, at their co-workers. They beg and plead and get emotional and make a scene.

At first it was a test, but since they failed, (and failed so spectacularly) they are now actually fired.

Or it wasn't a test, but now they have no self respect.

I hope you see the analogy. When an emotionally intelligent man encounters LMR, if all the other non-verbal signs of consent are there from her (touching, laughing, kissing, cuddling, groping) and she says "Oh well I don't know if we shouldn't" then he knows that she is testing him, and responds with "Ok, if you say stop, I'll say stop, but I want you" and then kisses her. If she says "No" or "Stop" at any point, then he calmly backs off, nods politely, walks away with a smile, goes home.

An emotionally unintelligent man gets upset, gets hurt. Tries to push her into it, tries to nag her. Says "pleeeeease why not baby!" Says weird shit.

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]buarthaDelights in homosexuality1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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There is a kernal of truth to this. Yes, many women fear how man will regard her after they have sex, especially if it is early into their courtship, relationship, whatever you want to call it. So even if they do really want to have sex, they deny this urge to preserve their reputation with the guy.

My problem with TRP is this attitude that its a girl trying to trick you into thinking she's not a slut, or irrationally convince herself she is not one... but she totally is! TRP hates women who have sex, even if it is with them.

I also take issue with this sick, manipulative move to "overcome LMR" by making her feel more comfortable with you, building her trust with you to make her think you are not thinking bad things about her, but then running to TRP to shit all over her.

Lastly, many of the social idiots so frequently attracted to TRP have a hard time discerning when a woman is being coy and reserved, and when a woman is straight up saying no. A few weeks ago some kid shared his story about pinning a girl up against the wall, arms above her head, and telling her that she couldn't fight him off if she tried. Girl panicks, guy comes running to TRP asking what's her problem. That's what some people take away from TRPs advice.

[–]M_rafayCrimson Red5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

A few weeks ago some kid shared his story about pinning a girl up against the wall, arms above her head, and telling her that she couldn't fight him off if she tried. Girl panicks, guy comes running to TRP asking what's her problem.

This is how shitty TBP quoting is and why it should never be believed. The guy did not report any instance of a girl panicking, in fact, he reported ridiculous levels of devotion from her. What he posted to TRP about was to help him with his problem of not caring about the girl and not being able to get a hard-on.

Furthermore, textual reporting where the guy mentioned one detail off-hand that strikes you as lacking legalese is not good evidence to go on when confirming details of any story, and especially not good when confirming rape. The kid acted as his instincts told him to, which is perfectly fine.

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[–]polyhooly5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link

[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (57 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, so?

Nobody said the response to LMR is that you try harder and pressure someone. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. The way to handle LMR is to do exactly the opposite and back the fuck off. "Go Cold"

When I say "hold up there" I mean stop I want to wait because I'm not ready.

So, basically, has the following ever happened to you:

1) You and a partner eyefuck each other from across a room.

2) You dance

3) You kiss

4) Things progress normally

5) You invite him back to your place

6) You're kissing passionately

7) Clothes are coming off

8) "Wait, you think, what am I doing? Do I want this? With him? God I don't know. I don't know if I want this. But god yeah it feels good. I don't want this though."

9) You say "Uh, wait, uh, I want this <moan>, but like, I don't know, shit's complicated".

If that has ever happened to you, then you have personally demonstrated the existence of LMR. At the point when clothes are coming off you are having second thoughts, doubts. You want him and you like him but there are buts

Therefore, LMR exists.

Does that mean that LMR is evil or wrong? No, it's just what happens sometimes.

From your partners perspective, did he do anything wrong? No. Hopefully you can see why that would be frustrating. It feels like a rejection for no reason. However, the thing RP tells him to do is to respect your wishes and just back the fuck off. Which is what YOU want him to do.

So what's the misunderstanding?

[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlphaFemale9Angry Elf1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

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[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

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[–]StabbyPantsPillhead1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]BBwannabeAFReluctantly Red[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	If slut shaming exists in our society, why isn't the idea of LMR plausible?
Author	BBwannabeAF
Upvotes	2
Comments	153
Date	February 28, 2015 5:43 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2xfrgn/if_slut_shaming_exists_in_our_society_why_isnt/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-slut-shaming-exists-in-our-society-why-isnt-the.283286 https://theredarchive.com/post/283286

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