I was emotionally manipulated by my bf (with what some would consider dread game techniques) AMA.

2014-07-14T18:31:23+00:00

EDIT 3: It appears that Dread Game is still a debated topic within RP itself. I'm glad that this could at least spark some discussion about dread game and...

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red17 points18 points19 points 12 years ago* (29 children) | Copy Link

WAIT WAIT WAIT.

What the fuck? You guys have a really cliclé way of assigning everything you don't like to your mental images of cartoony boogey-men like RP. Archwinger's questions were dead on.

HOW IS THIS DREAD GAME? Where is the build-up? Where is passive?

WHERE ARE THE OTHER WOMEN?

THIS IS JUST JUVENILE THREATS TO END A RELATIONSHIP. There is no frame control. There is no confidence and assertiveness. It is reminiscent of a child making constant threats that lost their weight over time, not a man with boundaries and options.

For comparison, here is a description of dread game. I'm quoting what I gave in a reply earlier:

If I am someone who is well known among my girlfriend's social circle. If I subtly flirt with her friends and maintain active communications and rapport, that is passive dread(you can up it by adding "reject advances by at least 1 woman a month" to the list, but not neccessary). Passive is simply subtly working to have no dearth of options. She knows you're in demand, she knows she's the one constantly getting picked over the others. My girlfriend actually thinks its both really flattering and hot(Pre-selection) having that kind of guy. The kind her friends(other women) want and envy. She thinks its romantic how I make it a point to pick her over everyone else. I should mention she is by no means a BP caricatured naive helpless woman.

Is having female friends abuse? Is letting my girlfriend know I have female friends abuse? Is the fact that I try very hard(using game I learned) to try to subtly create attraction from other women abuse(keep in mind, RP's idea of game doesn't come off as PUArtistry. It comes off as part of your personality. read RP series on: frame control)? No? How about if I try to keep other women emotionally bonded and fond of me? Am I abusive yet? Yes? No? What if I say none of my effort is apparent to my girlfriend?

OK, hold on to that thought. Let's move on;

Active dread game is having pre-set boundaries which when crossed, allow you to state plainly and clearly what you will not tolerate. The threat of a point of no return is implied at this stage. The things that are important to you and will not be compromised and you are unmovable on them are stated. Conveyed with convincing confidence and unconcerned self-righteousness(read: man on a mission mentality), it usually doesn't take anything else for her to try to back-trap and avoid in future. Your boundary is now secure. It doesn't even matter how ridiculous the boundary is. In fact, the more ridiculous usually gets reports of better responses. Depending on how much value you have in her eyes, she'll do it, happily.

In comparison to active dread, the resumption of interest and happiness and lots of positive feelings of appreciation and love rewarding her make everything better than normal.

If the boundary is crossed anyway, the girl is nexted. You move on and find another one among the group of women preparation for active(passive) has had lined up.

Active must not be all over the place, or a random go-to response or an empty threat. It must carry weight. It must stay there for a long while. Otherwise it comes as the mark of weakness and insecurity, not to mention this BP caricature flavour of active dread game only works on naive, or exceptionally attached women for any lengths of time. Standard dread has been claimed to work for more than 10 years by many. And dread itself has been tried by many tens of thousands.

If you think I'm pulling a no true scotsman. Go search the term on the red pill. Hell, even pull up the one on heartiste that you guys love so much(to the point where always you consider his word over literally every other known RP author who has ever written on dread).

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points5 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

Braaks, you need to understand two things. The second is going to be very bitter to hear and understand. Bear with me.

1. Dread game comes in many different flavours. Some can be bad(think of that guy who made plates out of his wife and lover, with plans on more). Some are more innocent(read the description above and detailed one elsewhere in this thread). All of them must involve women other than you. By definition. If you'll check again, even your chosen link includes another woman.

Dread game plays on women's competitiveness against each other.

Let me illustrate;

When she pushes. my. buttons... When she shit-tests me... When she picks a fight... When she sees the shit that's festering between us, when she mentally contrasts that to the absolute chemistry between me and another woman already underway, she'll be drawn to fix it. Even if the other woman is out of the picture or rationally a complete non-threat.

Now, what draws a RP man to go to another woman is not that I am reacting to her serious(and yes, dread game is only acceptable in reaction to terrible irrational behaviour) tantrum. It is that I SIMPLY DONT CARE TO deal with it anymore. I simply turn off my attention from what I don't want... and focus it on what I do... and voila... she recognizes what she is doing. If she doesn't, you make good on your implication/threat. She is nexted.

Here is one of the all time top posts on Red Pill, courtesy Archwinger: Being Controlling Is For Losers. It tears your bf's use of dread game apart from a RP POV. Your boyfriend had a sickening scarcity mentality and insecurity to be desperate enough to need to threaten you at all and then not even make good on the fucking threats.

2. Even if we assume you were completely feeling pre-selection out of some phantom woman, and this is indeed dread... like I said there are bad types of dread game.

And even there, what he did obviously worked. (I am ready for delicious downvotes) It may not have served him long-term(He didn't do it right, did he?), but it absolutely got him more access to what he wanted.

If he was a reader of redpill, he would've internalized a lot of other ideas to get what he wanted too. For example, for this specific purpose, I've dragged my girlfriend out running with me because I find it makes her horny. I like to cook, and recently, I like to cook foods that I've heard will make her horny. I like to experiment with game and different forms of it. I calibrate it, until I find what she likes and makes her horny.

In RP we constantly improve our methods. We constantly get better. Your boyfriend just threatened you with a breakup to get sex. For two years. By our standards, that's weak. How does he stand in your eyes within Redpill?

He was confident in tell me that he could find someone else to satisfy his needs.

"I totally have a girlfriend guys! She's from Canada!"

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

And this is why I don't like TRP. She has spelled out in no uncertain terms that she grew to despise sex thanks to his actions, and yet you still consider that a victory for him somehow because he guilted her into unwanted sex. Does her unhappiness not factor into the equation at all for you?

It does, SpaceWhiskey it does. Painfully.

But its important to understand that we never invented this stuff. A crude version of an effective technique was used on Braak. Something her boyfriend stumbled on. This isn't the version RP has refined and recommends to people, but it is, another form of the same beast.

One version is childish. Pathetic. "Demanding". It works through putting people down and making them feel bad. It works on naive people with low self-esteem. It is nothing more than a snarling "do this otherwise this".

The other is nothing like the above. It is refined and works on a different set of emotions entirely. Slight fear maybe(which fades with trust), with all else being teasing, rapport and attraction. It says nothing about leaving her. It is simply about pursuing what makes you happy. And being honest if that isn't her.

RP says sexual strategy is amoral. That means we do not preach to each other what to do with this stuff. But we do encourage and talk about the good uses as much as we can. We have puerarchs that pump and dump. And we have sensitive men who have been manipulated and pushed their entire life, who have simply been empowered with the knowledge we offer, and who've made no attempts to abuse it. And we have everywhere in between. For our part, we genuinely try to get them to abandon their anger and work to be better men.

RP has refined each of its strategies. From Plate Theory to Active Dread Game so that they can all honestly have the potential to be harmless, happy, healthy behavior, for all parties involved. But all can also be used to abuse. In the end, the knowledge is just tools in the hands of the beholder.

The fact that this information is effective, and we have discussed it does not make it our fault whenever somebody all over the earth applies these techniques.

I noted that it is effective. I did not note that there aren't better ways of doing it. If you read my other illustrations of dread in this thread, you would see. I dare you, in fact, to paint them as abuse.

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

not calling, not texting,

Am I obligated... to respond immediately to calls or texts? The Red Pill has never advocated intentionally not answering those. It has advocated doing it only when you want to. Going as far as cutting her off if you don't want to listen to her anymore. Simple as that. No script. Just... do what you want. The effect of that immediately shows. People(if reasonable) are always able to justify what they want very well, in pretty convincing and assertive ways. If you get a beta to stop taking shit or to call his girlfriend on her shit for the first time in his life, then when his girl asks for an explanation... the truth pours out... everything he's been repressing for fear of not being nice... comes out... in a frame-controlled(cannot overstate this) confident and assertive way.

And you know what? It is sexy and genuine and honest and as far from abuse as you can possibly get.

Pedastalising bitches is self-abuse.

dismissing the relationship in front of others

Again, you do not do this intentionally. And complaining about women is a distinctly non-frame-controlled behaviour. If it is a plate asking about your girlfriend, that is simply not her prerogative to know, and you treat it like a shit-test anyway. Agree and amplify. I don't give women answers to everything they want. That is poor game. In fact, it is shooting yourself in the foot. You are both supplicating to her("oh no, her? She's terrible. she means nothing to me..." BLEH! Disgusting) and failing to score dread points off your girlfriend with the plate.

I don't understand how instilling fear will create a lack of distrust if you continue to remind the girl that you can leave her at any time.

Simple. You don't remind her. There is coercion and then there is dread game. Which is why I had such a hard time reconciling in my head why your situation is dread game. I'm sorry I said such a harsh thing as "It obviously worked" but in RP we view strategy dispassionately. I would not repeat or advise repeating what your boyfriend did. But I would recognize that given conditions A, B and C, even this is working. It lends mild weight to thoughts D, G, F.

In your case, its a mild story of the millions of men whose boyfriends stumble across coercion and exercise it just short of its predictable end. It may be sexual strategy. But it is ametuerish, IMO.

Why would flirting with other girls make her trust you?

It makes her want you. Trust comes from elsewhere. One form of game that is really cheesy but works pretty well for me is explained at the end of here. If I had to dub it, I would call it "trust me game".

Especially since, form this link[1] the ultimate form of dread is cheating on her and it being ok.

Ahem.

You mean chateau heartise? A "Good link" opinion blog? Next to 10 other blogs? A blog that has written several hundred articles over several years? A.K.A The Red Pill Bible? Wherein god of all men's sexual strategy said in 2008 "ye shell Managing your relationship in such a way that she is left with a constant, gnawing feeling of impending doom will do more for your cause than all the Valentine’s Day cards and expertly performed tongue love in the world."

Wow, its almost as if red pill isn't a static collection of ideas. And tens of thousands of men have continuously been using and refining dread and working out the limits of using it as an advantageous sexual strategy for years, and of which heartise(along with every other blog on that list) is one? You ever wonder why you only read Heartiste's opinions and not say, rationalmale's or dalrock's?

Its because they're not as good fodder for your self-righteousness.

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[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

So you empathize, painfully, but you're still saying it counts as a victory?

Yes. I, and RP, are ruthlessly pragmatic in discussion. We would not recommend this to people to go home and try out and I'm sorry I said such a harsh thing as "It obviously worked" but in RP we view strategy dispassionately. I would not repeat or advise repeating what her boyfriend did. But I would recognize that given conditions A, B and C, even this is working. It lends mild weight to thoughts D, G, F.

I do admit its in poor taste to say. I seemed to forget I was in RP, where expectation of dispassionate analysis is assumed, with a focus on how to improve said concept.

You're going to tell her that, hey, it worked right? You put out right? He made you feel like shit but DM;HS, right?

But that is not what I said. Please do not quote long conversations out of context like that. I am not a politician and you're not the media.

But the fact that you claim to use dread game openly leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Why so? I noticed in the conversation with archwinger, he asked about the flagrantly liberal use of abuse for anything. Even dread game that by its very method involves you doing only what you want, and only as harmlessly as possible is abuse.

You know what... as much as I've had that charge thrown on me and battered into my brain, I have never heard a BPer defend their charges of abuse. Don't you think its about time you actually use what we do and not any ametuer fool who figures out coercion does as proof to label us? I learn from OP's BF what not to do, the limits. Not what to do.

Here is another example of me explaining dread(and other examples) to a newbie. Hell, if you want, use the thread OP linked as being abusive. Search "dread" on RP and find me something. Find RP encouraging abuse and not just analyzing it.

I was thinking of making a post soon on BP's delusion to see opinions. If the best you can do is fringe threads, please try harder.

Dread game can be abusive. But it is not automatically abuse. In fact, it can fix abuse. In my experience with red pill, it has overwhelmingly fixed relationships.

The ameteur version of OP that resembles coercion more than dread game is what tears them apart. It is borne of misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. Which is what dispassionate analysis and a willingness to learn avoids. example

Dread game of any sort on men(including the natural form of women's dread, sex. but not limited to it. for example, institutionalized hostage-arrangement; marriage and divorce) is also uncomfortably common, mind you.

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

I never said OP's happiness < Her BF getting more sex. I expended enormous effort outlining in detail how much I and RP emphasize use of dread in a different way entirely, a positive way. Even in the comment thread you're quoting out of context, I emphasized how much use of dread lets men break out of abusive relationships. And I explained clearly how it is not automatically abuse.

I stick to the principle of sexual strategy is amoral though. I recognize what worked as what worked. Dispassionately. I am not concerned what some impressionable child reads on the internet. I note the facts. And present a superior strategy to those that would use the former for abuse. These things were not invented by us. Our variants though are potentially harmless.

And as for double-standards, I feel those are justified because dread game plays on certain instincts that are present in women but not in men. It would affect a man's perceptions completely differently. The analogue of dread in women(manipulation of sex) is something women do all the time.

Thus, I would not let a woman control a relationship I am in. That is just the way it is. I lead consciously and responsibly, keeping in mind her happiness and mine. Women shit-test by instinct, randomly and unconsciously, to the detriment of a relationship. In a way, OP's boyfriend would be the equivalent of an irrational and abusive woman in RP's view, the kind you are justified in using dread on.

[–]cuittlerಠ_ಠ-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

dread lets men break out of abusive relationships. And I explained clearly how it is not automatically abuse.

Yeah I don't remember any of that. That comment was like a stream of consciousness that made less sense than your previous ones.

Here's your context

"If flirting with other women to prove your value is all well and good, why do so many RPers balk at the idea of their gf or spouse doing the same to them? Why do guys find that behavior insulting and degrading when they're the ones on the receiving end?"

1) I, for one, like my double-standards. Sexual strategy is amoral. I have no obligation to take that shit.

RP men have no scarcity of supply. Any woman who does that has no tether that allows her to get away with it. Immediate next.

Meanwhile, I do. You may not be able to make a plate out of your wife exactly, but even then, the shit you can get away with, given attraction... sometimes makes you laugh out loud when she's finally gone and you're alone. Its a mirthy laugh.

Some pseudoscience and talking about keeping RPW under control, lovely as usual.

Males have no such thing as pre-selection. If you've been paying even slight attention to the studies I keep pointing out, data paints a pretty undeniable clear picture; males universally display instinctive paranoia about their paternity. Every trait that evolutionary science predicts will give men a greater chance at avoiding paternity fraud, is a trait found in men. From their dedicated-kamikaze sperm to their plunger-like dick-heads to the hormones secreted by foreskin during penetration to the types of women they pick to their need to have her be submissive and dependant.

Moreover, men are disgusted(literal disgust. i.e. activation in the same brain areas) at the prospect of the women they're in love with being perceived as disloyal. Go on r//askmen and ask them to describe it. Men are uniquely insecure about sex. Pleasure in sex and relationships for men is deeply tied to their egos. (I explain myself here) It is a strongly evolved trait. And it is so due to women's dual sexual stratgies. And this paranoia has still not been enough; an unbelievable percentage of men do still get cuckolded. source And they have been getting cuckolded since the dawn of time(read the genetic studies in the reply that started this thread). Men. Do. Not. Find. Sexual. Disloyalty. Attractive. Or. Likable. (A good way to make a man angry in nearly every culture is to make sex jokes about his female family members being whores.)

EDIT; So you see, TRP doesn't just say unkind things about women's natures. It says terrible things about men's too. The only reason the red pill doesn't also teach you how to play men like a fiddle is because our audience is men, and we keep RPW controlled and focused on constructive relationships, and not being sirens like feminism.

If anything, confident, self-assured women are the ones we think dread works best on. They are stubborn so they need it, and they don't mind your contact with other women as much, and aren't used to having boundaries set and wanting to follow them like that. It makes RP men stand out to them all the more.

Interestingly enough there's a thread on here describing how DG worked on the poster in part because of self esteem issues...something seen time and again by those who've been abused.

Also, very few people actually have self-esteem, and they tend to not be women. In fact, I would actually blame other women for this.

I do not believe in the concept of strong independent woman.

And other winners like that.

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I see nothing wrong with those quotes. (I notice though, in true blue style, you don't add the link to the conversation.) There is coercion and then there is making people want to do things for you out of their own free will. Dread game as OP's BF did it and Dread game of any sort on men(including the natural form of women's dread, sex) is the former.

But if you want to quote me for CHEAP, concise, meaningless ammo I'll make it even easier for you: I do not bet on women leading successful relationships. I would never give that advice to anyone. They are by nature, irrational, machiavellian and inconsistent. A relationship in the hands of a man with an understanding of what both sides are after, and how to give them it, is almost always better than one headed by shitty and unrealistic idealistic belief system who's reality is at the whims of a hamster's constantly changing interpretation of a rapidly changing movement like 3rd wave feminism. The fact is none of the tens of thousands of RP/manosphere men applying dread come back with reports of any of the reactions you predict(you have the choice of field reports, prove me wrong). Meanwhile, ameteurs like OP's BF do. That should tell you something.

If you can't even defend your charges of abuse, then you're not making any points. I argued before, and archwinger did so in this very thread, that by TBP-comment-brigade's impossible standards of moralfaggotry, there is no such thing as a non-abusive healthy relationship. Every thing is triggering. Even the type of dread game that by its very method involves you doing only what you want, and only as harmlessly as possible(its the equivalent of having boundaries for god's sake). Don't believe me? Read that thread.

Its all on the level of all PIV sex is rape for you.

[–]suscitareMGTOW Red Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems to me that your explanations fit with his actions, but you don't accept that it was dread game because he had to remind me more than once over a 4 year period about him leaving me if I didn't step it up?

Before you replied here, I wrote another post saying "it worked" at the end of it. But there are ways of doing dread game better than your boyfriend. That last longer. I'll illustrate below

Is there a time period after which you stop dreading? Is it after a month, two months, a year? Is there ever a time period after which the the dread game ceases to work?

Let me speak in terms of me, I have been in a relationship with my GF for 2 years. Its pretty stable. I've always done this stuff. Simply because I find it fun. Not for her benefit. That is a side-effect.

You never addressed the "field report" I linked to either.

Let me illustrate in a way that compares it side by side to your past situation.

So for the passive dread, my boyfriend hates being passive aggressive, as this seems to suggest.

Passive dread is not passive-aggressiveness. There is no part of red pill that involves passive-aggressiveness. You hop women whenever it is you feel like you want her now instead. Not because you want to make some bitch jealous. The post you linked had a man acting intensely out of what he wanted. An assertive man with self-respect and no pussy on pedestals. Not any childish shit like threatening a woman as if she's a player in a negotiation for anything. He simply did what he wanted. No explanation. Nothing. The intention was never her attention. Abundance mentality.

Red Pill men are selfish, dismissive and amused. Passive dread is not the part where you're passive-aggressive, its the fun part. i.e. the part where you line up other women.

Passive dread would be, say, where the guy nestles up to his girl in bed and the GF refuses sex. So the man, a bit peeved, opens up his laptop instead. A few minutes later, he laughs voraciously. The GF asks whats going on. He says this bitch on facebook is analyzing his personality.. as if she has him alllll figured out... He doesn't intend this to happen. It is not for her benefit. It happens because he has a social circle filled with women. Which he enjoys and is happy with. This becomes an infectious presence in his woman's mind, especially now. She pouts and becomes cranky and kicks him. He doesn't understand. She doesn't berate him because he is not some beta she can get away with disrespecting. He wouldn't stick around for that. She tries to peek in the laptop now instead. He lets her do it. She huffs and he ignores her. He is amused mastery personified. To him, her displeasure is like that of a child. He doesn't mock it, but it isn't significant to him. She wants his attention now. She hungers for it. She starts foreplay and kissing and pulls him away from the laptop and sexy times are had. Later, she says he's not allowed to talk to that woman while they're cuddling and falls asleep happily. He reluctantly agrees.

They are in fucking love having had hot makeup sex where she wants him. She is enthusiastic. She is a submissive sex kitten who wants him to focus on her and take her now.

But do you see the difference? You are deferring. You are visibly miserable. Neither the girl in the post you linked(Here is the link for convenience) nor my GF is having sex because she is forced to. It is just natural. For them, it just happens.

Passive dread game. Your boyfriend skips straight to active.

[–]Archwinger[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

He threatened to break up with me if we didn't have sex as often as he would like... he thought that this was the most useful option after trying to talk about it didn't work, in his eyes.

Was there any chance that talking about having more sex would have actually led to having more sex?

If anything, trying to verbally convince a woman into sex she doesn't currently want is nearly just as abusive, isn't it? And there's nothing less sexy to a woman and less likely to lead to sex than complaining about not having enough sex. Isn't that just whining, under the guise of discussion?

What route do you believe would have led to the sexual relationship your boyfriend wanted? It sounds like you were content with a low-sex relationship, and he wasn't, and absent any action from him, the low frequency of sex wasn't going to change. It sounds like waiting for sex to happen more frequently naturally, organically, and spontaneously as your relationship grew wasn't working for him, which is why he started talking about it, and when talking about it didn't work, why he started threatening about it. Is this a fair summary? What should he have done?

The "correct" response, I think from both a Red Pill and Blue Pill perspective would have been to skip the whole bullying stage and just dump you, find someone sexually compatible with him, and both of you could have moved on. Do you think your boyfriend lacked self esteem, too, and stuck with you because he was afraid he wouldn't attract another girlfriend?

Before all of the threats and other things he tried, why weren't you having sex with him more often? It sounds like the counseling you two have been through focused mostly on undoing what he did, but is/was there some other issue going on? Is your sexual relationship normal now and not too infrequent?

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Archwinger[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I really take offense to how casually the term "abuse" gets tossed around nowadays.

Putting your girlfriend down in any way, whatsoever, makes her feel bad, and is therefore verbal abuse.

Abuse used to mean coming home drunk and giving your wife a black eye. Abuse used to mean having forced sex with your underage daughter.

Now, saying something that makes a woman you're dating feel bad is "abuse." It can't just be called being a jackass any more. It has to be a thing with a clinical name, such that every woman everywhere now has an "abusive ex" from a previous "abusive relationship".

Now, every single woman who ever had a selfish boyfriend who was late for things or forgot things or who got pissy when denied sex or who said mean shit is suddenly a victim of abuse. Back in my day, girls just said, "Yeah, my last boyfriend was a jackass."

[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Archwinger[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Archwinger[🍰] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not debating that the guy was a serious jackass. I don't think anyone would. His behavior was wrong, and untrustworthy, for sure.

But where's the line between a guy who's just a rude jackass that ought to be dumped, and a guy who's "emotionally abusive?"

Any time you say anything that's hurtful to a woman you're dating, that diminishes her self-esteem and tears her down as a person, even if just a little bit. But if you don't ever say anything negative or hurtful to the woman you're dating, keep it all in, tolerate things you don't like (such as low sexual frequency) and things you're not attracted to (such as appearance or behavior factors), you're not being honest.

So I guess you're supposed to kind of tiptoe up to the issue and be really, really polite with your tone, and sugar-coat and wrap up anything slightly non-positive in a few layers of verbal bubble wrap, and insert "but I still love you" between every line to reassure her. Or just dump her and assure her that "It's not you, it's me."

People who are dating fight. They hurt each other. They argue. They say mean and belittling things. If you never do that and you're afraid to for fear of losing your relationship, you don't have a real relationship. Yeah, if you're bitching at each other all the time and there's barely anything positive left, it's time for a new relationship, but you're going to have some angry fights in the course of any relationship, hurt the fuck out of each other, disagree about sex, and all kinds of other behaviors, and that's normal. It's not "emotional abuse" to hurt a woman's feelings or say mean shit to her. You might be a jackass, though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It began after I told him that I felt that he rarely expressed that he loved me, he told me that he could only express those feelings after we'd had sex, when he was feeling them.

WHAT? Wow. I can't believe you stayed with him after this. I'm glad he was open-minded enough to change.

I find that whenever my husband does anything that could be interpreted as "Dread Game" (unintentionally -- he has no idea about RP) -- stuff like the silent treatment, or back-handed compliments, or generally acting like a dick... it never goes well. Just makes me think he's an asshole and I get pissed off and he eventually comes around when he realizes he's being that way and I won't tolerate it.

I really don't see how being treated like shit is supposed to make me want to climb all over his dick and worship him.

[–]niczarRed Pill Man2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]hyperrrealLoves fun3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad things are better between the two of you. Doesn't sound anything like dread game in my opinion though. If he is considering leaving the relationship, because a need of his is not being met, in no way is that a game. It's a honest expression of his thoughts and feelings. If you told your boyfriend that a need of yours wasn't being met, and that you couldn't see yourself in the relationship if something didn't change, that isn't dread game either.

Obviously I don't know your boyfriend, and I have no doubt he appears to have high self-esteem. But in my experience people with healthy self-worth are not drawn to people with low self-worth. And it does sound like the two of you are drawn to each other intensely if you are still together after all that.

Edit: And I want to add based on a comment of your's a just saw. Confidence =! self-worth. People with low self-esteem either inhabit their shame (this sounds like your response) or project confidence and this perfect image to hide their internal pain (sounds like his).

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]hyperrrealLoves fun3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

This is the original post on CH that popularized and defined Dread Game. If you read it you'll see it's very different from how you describe your boyfriend acted. Much more indirect, aloof, and calculated.

With regards to what he vocalizes, consider the ol' Tywin Lannister- "Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king." Or Margaret Thatcher "Power is like being a lady... if you have to tell people you are, you aren't."

I have to walk a fine line here, because I don't know you or your boyfriend, and (for you) the most important thing is your view of the relationship and how it is going. I just want to caution you against the idea that outward confidence necessarily comes from inward confidence. While it can, it doesn't have to.

Edit: Couldn't help but notice this choice quote (below), which is not something an emotionally whole person with high self-esteem would say.

I had gained 10 lbs and he told me he was embarrassed to be seen with me in public. He would tell me that I "used to be hot" or I "had a model's face but not the body".

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[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

something just occurred to me and I would like to preface my earlier statement with it: TRP hardly knows anything about game either. These are guys that were to lazy and too stupid to cut it as pickup artists. So instead they get on reddit and circlejerk. (but to be fair to them, most of the guys in /r/seduction couldn't cut it as PUA's either.)

But to me the core tenants still stand as, "I don't like this thing that my gf does, I will indicate that to her (passively and actively), if she does not step up to that, I will 'next' her and move on" Which I think is what happened in my case.

That's the strategy, but the way I know your boyfriend didn't use dread game is because he didn't use any of the tactics that someone who knew game would have actually used.

Also, since you have somewhat resorted to being rude, I'll reply with the fact that your use of the word listening doesn't work here. I can't hear you at all, nor are you speaking aloud to me. Therefore you should have utilized comprehend over listen. Also, my ability to comprehend is a mental ability, not a physical one.

quit being pedantic you know what the hell I meant.

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Title	I was emotionally manipulated by my bf (with what some would consider dread game techniques) AMA.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	83
Date	July 14, 2014 6:31 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2aoskq/i_was_emotionally_manipulated_by_my_bf_with_what/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-was-emotionally-manipulated-by-my-bf-with-what.285311 https://theredarchive.com/post/285311

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