Whenever a girl approaches/initiates me first, I get laid. But whenever I approach/initiate, I never get anywhere.

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March 21, 2020

I am a senior in college, and I realized that every single that I initiated first, I never got laid. But whenever a girl would show interest in me, she always made it easy for us to get together. Is it because I am going for girls out of my league? Why do you think this is the case?The girls that come to me are generally not as hot as the girls that I am approaching. I feel like I am wasting my time pursuing a girl, because if I just let girls come to me, I get laid. It would save me the energy. I would appreciate some input.

Post Information
Title Whenever a girl approaches/initiates me first, I get laid. But whenever I approach/initiate, I never get anywhere.
Author cbmaybach
Upvotes 105
Comments 65
Date 21 March 2020 04:21 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/356929
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/fm99u4/whenever_a_girl_approachesinitiates_me_first_i/
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[–]a-large-L175 points176 points  (28 children) | Copy

I’m sorry but...sidebar.

If they’re approaching you, they have very high interest and obviously it’s going to be easy as fuck to get laid. If a girl has high interest it’s actually difficult to fuck up enough to not.

Your game is just probably trash, and your confidence is also probably trash when it comes to approaching more attractive women because you’ve got the subconscious thought that she’s “out of your league”.

If all you’ve ever really been with is high interest girls, it’s a rude awakening when you try to go for girls that have low to medium interest and your game and seduction is more required to be on point.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler47 points48 points  (18 children) | Copy

Arguably, hitting on low interest girls is not very productive and gets tiresome. You can waste a lot of time and usually the best case scenario is you get some stuck-up pussy. The realistic scenario is you won't close because she is already emotionally involved with someone else, or 100 other reasons you need to fight against, even if your game is good.

It's help getting your game better, but not much else. Usually.

Some guys might enjoy the chase, but there are better ways to spend your time than jumping over hoops to make a girl interested in you. Plenty fish in the sea.

I'll add that once you raise your SMV considerably most girls will be at least medium level interest.

[–]MajIssuesCaptObvious22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy

Some guys might enjoy the chase, but there are better ways to spend your time than jumping over hoops to make a girl interested in you.

Amen to that!

[–]mr_Tobbor2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That is the trouth

[–]kdsflyfree1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]a-large-L1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree, I don’t go for low interest girls, waste of my time and effort.

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy


[–]mr_Tobbor0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

A lot of trouble trying to be someone else than you.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]mr_Tobbor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Of course

[–]aDrunkenWhaler0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Sure, express your interest. Then she'll say 'oh, I have a boyfriend' or 'i don't give my number to strangers', or not say anything and look at you funny etc., and you can either leave, as you suggest, or take your time and pass the shit test, thus wasting more time.

A low interest woman doesn't give much shit about your assertiveness or anything about you, at least not at first. You need to build that up, and even then there are good chances you will fail, despite your game.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy


[–]DF-RP3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

You have to go direct.

Please. There are many schools to cold approach, and shitload of them preach indirect openers. Even the ages old mystery method was that - open indrectly, put a false time constraint, get a hook in the conversation, have them chase you.

Direct game can and does work, particularly if your SMV is leagues above your target, but lets not pretend that it's the only or 100% the best way to go at all times.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'll just say that there are million examples of people doing exact opposite of what you preach.

Plenty of day gamers open with indirect openers that can be even asking for fucking directions and building the convo from there. Direct is not the only way.

EDIT: to just build on this a bit. If you go direct, you are 100% relying that your looks and "CONFIDENCE" is enough for her to take the bait. That works if you are few notches above her in SMV. However, by going indirect you have the chance to build up your SMV by doing displays of high value - looping in conversations that display your value, showing disinterest in her until she qualifies etc..

It's fine that you prefer direct, but claiming indirect cannot work in cold approach daygame (or nightgame for that matter) is absolutely bullshit.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]DF-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, ad hominen is the way to go and gain credibility. Why not just discuss this calmly?

Since you want to make this about results and numbers and arguing from point of authority, let me put my “credentials” up front. My current tally of lays is at 68. I currently have 3 on-going plates, down from 5 at year end. Most of my lays come from indirect approaches and social circles. I’m 30+ yo, and these are all in the 19-25 range outside of ~5 exceptions. I'm below average height for women in my country but have been gym regular for 6 years and am in top 5% income, for what it’s worth for my SMV. I’m no certainly no super guru, but I have some results and experience.

Before discussing further, let me just define direct approaches – when I say direct approach, I mean any approach where you at the very beginning of the interaction let the girl know that you are interested in dating/fucking/having male-to-female interactions with her. Indirect approach would be any interactions where start with a non male-to-female conversation and then later in the conversation pivot to make it your interest clear.

There are 2 major issues with direct approaches. First is that you are pedestalizing the girl and giving away your power at the very beginning of the interaction. She has done nothing to qualify herself, yet you are already saying that you want her just based on her looks, which hands her all the power in the dynamic.

2nd issue is that you are asking her to make a snap decision on you. You are putting her on the spot to make the decision right here, right now – and all she has to go on with is your looks and 1 or 2 sentences that you’ve told her. This has further 3 issues. A lot of girls don’t like to make decisions and many of them freeze out on a surprising approach like this which causes a type of fight or flight reaction, with them rather retreating from the interaction (saying no) than making the call. 2nd issue is that since she knows very little about you, you have no opportunity to utilize any game to display why you are a high value guy that she should want to date. If she was on the fence or ambivalent, further game could have made her into a buyer, but having to make a snap decision on your looks alone gets you a rejection instead. (or rather, sorry, I’m in a hurry / I have a boyfriend / pick your excuse). Finally, there’s issue with appearances when the girl is not alone. Girls don’t want to be seen as sluts and if a random guy just comes up and says “hi, I think you are hot, lets grab a beer”, it is often hard for her to say “yeah sure” without her friends going “Oh my god, I don’t believe you just gave that random dude your number!!” and spreading the story.

That’s not to say direct approaches don’t have advantages as well. It avoids friendzoning, you get some points for showing balls to go direct and it’s very time efficient in the same sense of asking 100 girls “wanna come over to fuck” when the club closes. However, I don’t think it’s the right approach all the time unless you are very attractive, as you will lose many leads that would have worked out.

You make a point that girls instantly know whether she’ll want to fuck a guy. I actually mostly agree with that – but I think girls tend to place guys into 3 buckets of “invisible” “hot, want to fuck” and “plausible”. If they are super into you, like you say, whether you go indirect or direct doesn’t matter; it’s hard to fuck up. If they are ambivalent, indirect can however turn them into “okay this guy is actually pretty cool” category after you display sufficient value. As such, I completely disagree with the idea that all lays from in-direct approaches could have been laid with direct approaches as well. Many of them would be dropped because the girl has not seen your value yet.

Indirect also shouldn’t be awkward beta “beating around the bush” approach. The way I see indirect approaches, the whole point is that you are having a conversation that is independent of their sex, and during this conversation THEY have to prove to me why I should be interested in them. The indirect approach is just anything to get a conversation going – from where you build some rapport by finding commonalities or anything to build on, display why you are a high value guy and when you feel like there is buying temperature, you pivot to expressing some interest. If there is no commonalities or anything interesting about them, why would you even want to put your dick into them?

You asked what the indirect approach sequence could be like. You can go on youtube and look for infields if you really don’t believe in it – plenty of those there. In general for me the trend is quite similar always. Open up a set (typically group) in friendly manner, build comfort with general chitchat about event/background/observations on environment or them while probing for logistics and commonalities. Display high value by stories showing I do cool stuff / have access to events/people/places that the girl is interested in. If in group setting typically # close and set up a date later or attempt to change venues/instadate if girl is alone.

To give one recent example, I was out with a wing and a 3 set walked in our direction in a park. One of them was wearing a dress in similar pattern as my shirt, so we open on observation that we have a “pair look” going on. Since a lot of people were coming from the same direction, we banter a bit about what was going on – turns out, a concert was held on an island. Ask them a bit about the music, the atmosphere, talk about our own recent experiences with concerts and the evening in general – get the group comfortable with us and conversation flowing. At this point, one of the girls realizes she has seen me somewhere. We have a short discussion and find out it’s a recent event where I was partying up with organizers. Instant display of high value for me and she is hooked. I start a 1on1 discussion with her while my wing handles the other 2 girls. We exchange stories and pictures from the event and talk about our common hobby. At this point, rest of the group is starting to get antsy, so I hand her my phone and tell her to input her insta to continue the convo later. This led to date and lay 3 days later. Now if I had just approached this 3 set with “oh hey, you look cool, want to go grab a beer with me?”, nothing would have ever happened. Only reason this moved on was because I showed we had similar interest and that I was “high up” in the social hierarchy. It was also necessity to get the whole group friendly towards us with bit of chitchat, because otherwise I could not have isolated the girl for long enough. Rest of the group would have told me to politely fuck-off (“Sorry, we are going to place X, have a good night”).

The whole PUA thing is bit on an off-tangent, but people here disrespect that stuff for no reason. I don't do any PUA routines, but I can tell that they do work just by comparing what I do "naturally" with what is written and said by some of the top PUAs. A lot of the stuff there - teasing, negs, not rewarding bad behavior, locking people in, isolating, social proof, displays of high value, escalation ladders - appears quite naturally in male to female interactions when you have some experience with ladies. You wouldn’t instantly grab a strangers’ tit, and just because a PUA spells out that you need to escalate a step by step does not make it any less true.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you'd take your head out of your own ass you'd realize we are saying the same fucking thing: that you should not chase low interest women because you are wasting your time in most cases. But you have the reading comprehension of a 5 yr old.

[–]captain-redbeard1811 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

Holy shot thank you for this it actually just opened the fuck outta my eyes. Very much appreciate this comment

[–]a-large-L4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

No problem. It’s really all about interest levels instead of “leagues”. The more you improve yourself and your confidence/game, the higher quality women may start out at higher levels of interest. Your self improvement can just lessen the hoops you have to jump through to get through to her.

And sometimes you’re just not their fuckin type and it’s no stress for you. Stay grinding king.

[–]mr_Tobbor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Time to look for a new way not cold approach

[–]Standgrounding0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Standgrounding0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]johncillo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I have this fucking mental blockage too. “Out of my league” is something I’m continuously concerned. However, raising SMV and abundance has helped me attain a better level of confidence and going “let’s get rejected” and be on my game without pressure

[–]a-large-L1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

An easier mindset for yourself could be: “I’m just not her type” vs. “She’s out of my league”

Getting rejected is just “I wouldn’t want that hoe anyways if she doesn’t want me”. Getting rejected just becomes easy and you don’t think twice. Hope you can keep pushing through that blockage bro.

[–]johncillo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is spot-on bro. This new mindset has flourished recently because I’ve noticed that many girls value my skills in certain areas where other girls don’t. And has given me freedom because I prefer to be authentic than changing for someone. Thank you bro. I will use this.

[–]DarkSoul20000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I vehemently disagree bud because maybe those girls are out of his league. He should continue to ask out but see how he approaches avg or slightly above avg girls. He must be reasonably attractive if girls ask him out. That is rare. Guys have to do most of the work.

[–]femaledoglover632 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy

You’re not approaching enough, and not approaching girls who give you choosing signals. If you approach a girl who doesn’t give choosing signals it’s like a 1/50 chance you’ll fuck. A girl who gives choosing signals is like a 1/3 chance youll fuck

[–]lozboss21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

No shit OP. Smashing high interest girls is easy mode.

Your game is trash. Work on it and you'll be able to pursue.

[–]theUnBannableHulk36 points37 points  (0 children) | Copy

The sex you want you ain’t gettin, The sex you getting you don’t want.

Classic noob quandary

[–]AnonymousSportsExec20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

Women throw themselves at men who are slightly better looking than them. They know if they're easy, a guy will be down. If the guy is too much better looking, she will be intimidated and not be interested. Women make men who are equally or less good looking than them earn it. They either have to have money and/or status to be worth her time.

"Game" and "Frame' is all about being socially dominant. Social dominance is the key to status for men. Or you can have a prestigious career, be famous, an athlete, etc. to gain status.

It seems like you're probably an 8 getting approached by 6-7s. Unless you play a sport in college or are in a top-tier frat, you won't be able to pull 8-10s without "game."

I personally was very fit and an athlete in high school/college which made it easy to get hot women. Once I was done with ball, I had to learn how to talk to the hottest women.

Now of days, I have a prestigious job and money, however I don't like using those things to attract women. I'd rather a woman be attracted to me because of my looks and social skills.

If you want to pull 8-10s, you need to become as physically and socially dominant as possible. Eat healthy and exercise to become more physically dominant. Exercise your brain and invest in your mental health to become more socially dominant.

[–]3dasak0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

define "game" please

[–]AnonymousSportsExec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Game=social skills Looks=genetics and physical fitness Status=social standing Power=physical and/or social dominance Alpha=physically and socially dominant

[–]alphakari7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well yeah. There is no greater IOI than a girl approaching you. Game isn't for high interest girls. It's for low interest ones.

And mid-low tier women develop other skills to net high value men. Namely they do things to make a guy feel like she's easy, although the girl herself probably just thinks of it as her personality being what netted him.

But nah. Funny bitches. Bubbly bitches. Talkative bitches. All those things aren't effective sexual strategies because of their desirability as traits innately. The traits themselves make it easier to game them, and that's what guys are actually getting out of girls with these traits. The lack of a need to do much to get them to spread their legs. They're lower cost per conversation.

Notice it's those traits that a guy'll point out as his reason for being with a low tier bitch, but he'll never fuck a low tier bitch for her money, or her intelligence. Because neither of those things make it easier to game them. Guys care about two things: How easy it is to fuck, and how beautiful a girl is.

[–]screenmagnet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

A lot of girls are just really talkative though? Like, they are that way with everyone. Or do you mean talkative in a flirtatious way?

[–]alphakari0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't say only low-mid tier women develop or use those techniques. Judt that they in particular tend to do so more frequently as a means to signal they're easier than pretty girls. (Whether they know it or don't)

I'm saying the value of those things to us men is it makes gaming those women easier. Not the quality of their character as they might believe/dudes embarrassed about dating 4's might lead us to believe.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy


[–]mraees932 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

What is your closing rate when getting choosing signals? . I very rarely get approached here in South Africa.

[–]Idontgetitboyz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really high in Eastern Europe, in my experience.

[–]whiffofass0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't know about the closing rate but the interactions always go positively.

[–]ButMessiDeservedIt0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

I do lift... I am a NCAA athlete?

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Ugly because 7s always approach me and make it super easy for me to dick them down? Or ugly because I dont have much luck pursuing 9s and 10s?

[–]mraees931 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would say ur smv isn't high enough for them yet. Meaning increase ur social skills and confidence. Don't get me wrong but looks can only get u so far.

Remember 9s and 10s are very picky, they only choose out of guys that approach them. u have to be in the right places at the right times to get them as well.

[–]DarkSoul20000 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Your probably attractive ignore the insecure non athletes here m8. Props for you getting girls to approach you. That's insane.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]DarkSoul20000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

7s arent ugly if hes being honest m8. Pay attention not trying to condescend here but you dont need to analyze this guy so much.

[–]MMASpartan772 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s usually a toss up. Usually girls have certain characteristics they like so they go for it - and sometimes you don’t have that thing they really value. However, sometimes a little pursing is good, those girls are usually worth it - but not pursuing to a point you are getting led on. Just go with the flow.

[–]mr_Tobbor3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s the pussy way. Lower league.

[–]Auspexel9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy

I think that’s because women at the end of the day are the gatekeepers to sexual selection. What you can do is increase your SMV and the way you present yourself, which is what gives you agency in the dating scheme.

[–]throwitdownman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Some of these comments are retarded. Obviously if she’s sending you overt IOIs it become considerably easier. Common sense.

What OP wants to know is how to have a higher conversion rate when HE approaches. That’s a question about technique, about game, which he can find by searching PUA on google.

If you’re trying to pick up a ‘low interest girl’ or a girl with a resting bitch face, ‘just lift bro’ doesn’t work. If she’s disinterested, the impression has been made. The only way to break through, is to apply PUA techniques. I wouldn’t want to advertise but there’s plenty of content (videos, pdfs, books, articles) about this topic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ya thats what I hate about this subreddit, I swear half of the users are literally retarded. My question is exactly what you are pointing out. I saw a Morgan Freeman interview on YT about how to get women, and his answer was "Let women come to you." I completely agree, because when they come to me, I get laid.

My question is regarding why I have so much success when they come to me first, vs when I go to them first. I have decent game, but I guess the answer that would fit my question would be that the girls I go for just aren't as interested in me as I am in them.

[–]W_O_M_B_A_T0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is not a statement of fact. It is 100% a statement of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

You believed this since before puberty, this isn't some kind of sudden realization. "I can't be successful unless mommie shows me the way to do something."

The issue seems to be that you don't see yourself as being the leader and the aggressor in a relationship. You're fundamentally uncomfortable in that role.

Because of this you sabotage yourself in various ways when trying to take on that role. You unconsciously put women up on a pedestal because you're afraid to step into the terra-incognita of being the sexual leader.

Read "Women: the most responsible teenager in the room."

You need to take women down off that mile-high pedestal you've put them up on.

[–]1Red_Pill_Brotherhood0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If youre putting in enough numbers and getting not getting any results, you gotta work on your game/SMV.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]IlyaRostov0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Could you give examples of low competition environments?

[–]mr_Tobbor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here we are. If you fuck its ment to be, not the game. Cold approach doesn’t work, makes you looking like monkey.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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