When you start aiming for perfection

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January 1, 2019

I feel like I live in another planet. I see people who don't even try improving themselves, while I'm here improving myself every single day.

It's a weird sort of feeling, but if you've been improving yourself for a few years already you know what I mean. People who smoke, drink, eat garbage, and waste their time away: I don't understand their behaviors anymore. And I actually was like those guys a few years ago.

It's really common in TRP falling into the monk mode trap.

I believe monk mode is necessary if one's SMV isn't high already, the point is it's easy becoming obsessed with self-improvement and not understanding one's real issues.

Self-improvement becomes dangerous when women get involved into that.

For that, I mean self-improving with women as end goal.

I'm a sort of dreamer, and I often visualize myself jacked more than I already am. I'm never ever satisfied even if I already look better than most guys. Body dysmoprhia, that is.

Now, If I look closer into those thoughts, the desire to be bigger stems from the desire to be perfect. I somehow arrived to believe that if I become perfect I will get laid (Let's be real, I'll never be perfect, and neither will anybody else).

I visualize myself all jacked and people staring at me. Fun thing is that people stare at me really often even now. But I'm not satisfied with that.

It's like if looking like a fitness model is absolutely necessary to get laid (in my mind), yet if we realistically look at the world, there are skinny guys who get laid more than me, and that shit fucks up with my mind.

Are those guys jacked? Fuck no. Are they even alpha? Their body language makes me cringe. Yet they have hot girlfriends. Now someone is going to tell me, "they are the BB, not the AF". That's true. Their girlfriend could be fucking an alpha on the side.

The point is I get cognitive dissonance because some beliefs I had don't really match up with what I see happening in the real world. TRP theories make you believe that lifting will get you laid 100%. Actually, I got rejected so many fucking times (around 50-60 times) even by being above average. Maybe their "rejection" was just a shit-test (in this case I could have found the problem) or maybe it had to do with me. Point is, lifting alone just made me receive attention. It not got me laid. Evidently, something is missing. In the last months, I understood I was not confident. I was not internalising my accomplishments. I was achieving stuff only the 5% of the population does achieve, but with the mindset of a guy who sits home fapping 5 times a day. I was underestimating my value. Should be called Impostor-syndrome.

People tell me I'm good looking, that I could be a model yet women reject me really often. I somewhere read that women reject you if you are too high value for them. Here is the problem. When I get rejected, I don't understand if it's because I'm not high SMV enough, or if it's because the girl is either insecure or some other shit which does not have to do with me. More often than not, I end up believing the former.

This is an endless cycle. I get rejected --> I start believing I'm not enough, so I keep self-improving.

Of course it's a con to be self-improving. Self-improvement is endless, but the point is, it stops me from believing I'm enough already.

I got many women attracted to me in the past, but I either fucked it up, or they were ugly.

How would you deal with this shit? Should I just try to approach girls endlessly and try less to understand what's the problem? Because the variables are so fucking many that it's hard finding the real unique reason of my problems.

Post Information
Title When you start aiming for perfection
Author lifeisweirdasfuck
Upvotes 107
Comments 37
Date 01 January 2019 10:16 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/72239
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/abmngf/when_you_start_aiming_for_perfection/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
cognitive dissonancealphasexual market valuemonk modeshit testliftthe red pill

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K1899 points100 points  (11 children) | Copy

OK. A few things (which have been mentioned)....

You NEED to stop measuring your success, by women. It's tough, with Red Pill, because so much of the focus and posts are about women. It is NOT what it is about, though.

Women are like a tiny triangle in the whole circle. They are NOT the end goal. The end goal is you, and your frame. ABUNDANCE, PRIZE, IDGAF and OUTCOME INDEPENDENCE.

Those things sum up so much. You have to live, breath and FEEL that ***, on an emotional level. They are what 95% of your life is about. Becoming those things, emotionally. Get out of your head, and theory, and get it into your emotional frame. Sidebar give you an intellectual understanding of what to be...then you have to BECOME that emotionally, IRL.

You lift, because you are a prize! Not to get female's attention/approval. You have a mission, because you are a prize! You DGAF, because you're value and worth are so high, you DO NOT just award someone equal value based on looks.

When you are with women, they always feed off your emotional state. You literally have to treat them as though you are a prize, you have abundance, and you seriously don't give a *** how they respond.

When you have your frame right, the dynamic will come organically. Women don't want to be impressed, or gamed, and they don't even want you to try and pick them up. They are subtle creatures, with intuition out of the ball park. They can FEEL desperation, outcome dependence, everything.

Once your frame is right...once you BREATH that slighty cocky, confident, IDGAF, ABUNDANT vibe...you are pulling them into your emotional state!

Whenever I approach...I purposely knock them down in my mind...I make their value lower. I tease them, poke fun at them, and basically tell them how they think they're hot ***. In a fun, slightly dominant, teasing way. I want them to FEEL my emotional state, my EMOTIONAL FRAME. I pull down their frame, invite them to FEEL mine...then make them qualify to build themselves back up.

That's all the first interactions are. In my correct emotional frame (abundance/prize/idgaf)...outcome independent is organic...cuz I've convinced myself emotionally, that this person doesn't really mean **...they are just a girl thinking she's the **, for me to poke fun at.

The fact that you're writing a long post, all about how women reject you, shows you are giving them way too much value. You're lifting and all...but underneath, enforcing a negative emotional state of 'not good enough'.

Lifting alone, doesn't really do **. Lifting is for you, your strength, your masculinity. A lot of women will **ume you're a gym junkie idiot.

It's all about emotional frame. It's INNER self improvement. I'm so abundant, so idgaf, so prize...

You get rejected, and believe you're not enough? That's how much women and their approval affects you emotionally? **...at the end of the day, they are just a pair of *, lips and ** for me to dominate...so I'm teasing about all the other ways they think thy're the ***.

Start developing your emotional frame...and let them feed off it. They operate emotionally. It won't be in the words you say...it'll be in the state you're in.

Whenever you're overthinking about women...stop. Breath in ABUNDANCE.

Remember, they feed off your emotions.

[–]Intellectualbeing9316 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

Why isn’t this getting upvotes. This is the most RedPilled post I have seen in ages. Women are not the prizes, you are the Prize! Remember that and you’ll be fine. Overthinking could kill a man. “Kill the boy” A man knows what’s he is and where he stands. Be the man.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K1810 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. Someone gave some great advice once, that women respond to my emotional state. The difference with men, is we are logical. We see an objective, to make a woman think we have abundance/prize/idgaf mentalities, so we logically think 'let's do this, this and this'.

Women feed off emotion. I can't control anyone, or anything, but myself. My thinking, and my emotional frame. I only need control that.

That...and learning that if I feel true abundance, true prize and true IDGAF...the dynamic with women changes. In a teasing, playful way, I knock them down. And I don't really care if they hook up with me, or not. Why would I, when they have no great worth, besides their body, and there are literally a few hundred of those all around me?

She is NOT a prize. That's reality. She isn't some giver of great emotional fulfillment. She's not going to clothe, and feed and pay for my life. She isn't going to teach me any great wisdom I don't already know. She isn't going to complete my life, by having sex with me. Like...it's fucking laughable. And most of them are trying in vein to make the world see them as anything more. I am her prize...the one who is going to fuck her endlessly and make her feel dominated.

I knock them down to reality...pull their frame down...PULL THEM INTO MY EMOTIONAL FRAME...and then make them qualify that they're anything more.

Yeah, once I realised it's a total emotional shift we're actually building with the Red Pill...it made everything different.

[–]Flintblood1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Remember, they feed off your emotions

So true. They can sense this like dogs can smell fear and ill intent. You have to be congruent. I’ve seen a guy in my family put on bravura and flirt with a female server, but you could tell it was all put on and he really didn’t feel as good about himself as his act wanted you to believe. He tries to act alpha by talking the loudest and trying to hijack conversation, but his inner game and self-efficacy doesn’t match.

I went on a first Tinder meet date last Wednesday night. I went in just wanting to have a good time, had a good time and spent the night at her place. I had a meeting the next morning with a friend, and unfortunately I was hungover and 20 mins late for that. I felt more self conscious about being late and about not controlling my alcohol, than I did the date. FTR, I was trying new brews, and only had 3.5, but they were 12.5 % vol. Not your pappy’s Budweiser.

When I was waiting to meet her, my GAF level started at 5/10. But somehow I got out of my head and felt really good about myself. That GAF level quickly went to 3-2-1-0 out of 10. I don’t know what I did, but I know how it felt. If you feel that, try to replay it in your head and internalize it.

EDIT: Edit for modesty. I went over a month with matches that fizzled - just match and forget. Most kept me but about 25% would unmatch. I was busy and not heating up the first message activity.

I think my IDGAF came from deciding that I’m enough and I was kind of bored of the app. I all but walked away and decided to go into semi monkmode. But curiosity got me and I kindled a couple of contacts. I think a take it or leave abundance mindset really helped me.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep...that's true IDGAF. That's one of the best emotional states to be in. I literally don't give a fuck...abundance and prize lead to that. Why the hell would I? So much flows from that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

One of THE best posts I've ever seen, thank you for this comment. True RedPill

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I saw your comment this morning, and I have to say it’s great advice. One thing though, how do you actually start feeling emotionally that you are the prize? Because I’m experiencing what you are talking about aka I know TRP’s theories but my subconscious has not internalised its principles. How do you internalise them deep in your mind?

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

For me, it's a level of self respect, self esteem and self acceptance. Meditation can be.good, listening.to positive affirmations. Also, really having a sense of pride. Looking at what I do with myself and my life, and knowing it's unique.

You can feel when you are searching.for approval, and when you're just being, because you are more enough.

It also comes when.I qualify women. I'm a prize.and a catch, so I qualify others, I don't qualify myself.

Hope some of this helped

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thank you very much

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

No worries. Don't wait for someone else to see you as a prize. Don't wait for someone else's approval.

Give that to yourself. Walk with it. When you find yourself worrying about how to make a girl see it...breath...and remember all the shit you've accomplished. That's self esteem. Really, who gives a fuck if somebody else notices it, or not.

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

and remember all the shit you've accomplished

I guess this is the key to everything. I should remember myself that every second of my life until it becomes something deep wired into the subconscious. Listening to positive affirmations should also do the trick as you said

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also, a lot of action. How you live your life...putting yourself first. Your interests, your mission, your lifting. How you treat yourself, reflects how you feel about yourself.

[–]Themane2224 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

I got the same problem man. Never stop self improving but you need to be proud of your accomplishments. Be confident regardless if your getting laid or not and never quit the gym. Lifting alone won’t get you laid but it will make it easier. You need to to lay down some game too

[–]theincrediblegulk25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like a confidence issue and a severe lack of outcome independence. Self improvement is good, not having a DGAF attitude is bad. I got the same issue. Usually if I get rejected I laugh and shrug it off because who cares, they're the one missing out; however, every so often I'll get rejected by a chick I'm into and my ego takes a blow. Queue the self reflection and self improvement cycle.

[–]smellyflamingo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This whole paragraph really resonates with me. Glad to know it’s not just me

[–]Chad173818 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are placing your “worth” on what women think of you. That’s not the way you should be thinking. You are probably already high enough smv that based of looks alone, you can get whatever girl you want, you just need to fix your mindset.....Also, Stop going after the lesser looking girls and only aim for the top. Approaching more won’t help, only increasing your standards will. Overestimate yourself, rather than underestimate, and you will see better success.

[–]Tjommas7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

This might be completely wrong, and if so disregard everything I'm about to say.

From reading your post it seems that you've become a bit too outcome dependent, and that you subconsciously may communicate that when you're gaming chicks.

I'm not by any means buff, been working out a while but not the best diet. Above average looking but not model attractive. I've had quite a bit of success with pulling, I'm in a LTR now and she's absolutely addicted to me.

I strongly believe that my success with the ladies has been from outcome independence. If a my gf says something stupid I call her out on it and laugh at her (if it's funny for me of course. Not being an asshole just to be an asshole) I entertain myself, on both her and mine behalf. And nothing she says can faze me because I know one hundred percent that I can consistently get with hot girls if she decided to ditch my ass. The only thing that's important is that I'm having a good time

If you adopt this mindset and know it in your heart, with your looks you'll be pulling left and right. The world is out oyster, we choose our own company, if you want something take it, it's yours to have. And subconsciously knowing this and subcommunicating this is the key.

[–]Vikingcel2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Be honest, how often do you talk to somebody and feel like they are outcome dependent?

[–]Tjommas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Obviously most people are, there is a reason you talk to someone, you want something. But that's not to say you can't be just as fine if you get rejected, in fact you can see it as an opportunity to score someone even hotter. It's very possible to learn and have this mindset

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My point is that you'd have to be very socially inept to come off as too outcome dependent. The women being able to read minds trope is retarded.

[–]miwol216 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think what you need is mental self-improvment, a change of mindset. Going back to physical self-improvement might feel like a comfortable way to deal with your insecurities or what not, but I don't think more strenght training will help you improve your game. I hope this helps, best of luck to you.

[–]phareux5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You probably weird the girls out bro, just be calm and cool and they will fuck you. Women are like cats just let them come at their own pace. Making them jealous and having an abundance mindset helps speed this up. Sounds like you have zero social awareness, and are socially awkward.

[–]HumbleRedPillStudent4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey man, I think I can definitely relate to where you're at. The last year has been a never-ending struggle of lifting 2 hours a day to pack on muscle at the gym and working my ass to the bone for the freedom of having my college loans paid off.

Look, at a certain point, mass-centered physicality can work against you if you're not actually living life. In the hypothesis study, "Why is Muscularity Sexy", there's a certain threshold where women see a man big enough to actually signal an immediate physical threat-- and they're actively turned off.

My girlfriend is gorgeous and appreciates my gains but I met her/seduced her when I was a twig and her behavior towards me hasn't changed since I packed on 25lbs of muscle. I'm at the point where she's starting to get a little grossed out by it all.

One of my goals for this year is to reach a certain point of strength...and then to actively CUT DOWN my time at the gym. You can do the same-- just do strength maintenance. Achieve a certain insane PR (for example I do weighted dips with 110lbs strapped between my nuts [6 reps x 5 sets], then up the reps [max 12], and bring the sets down to 2.) Don't do the shredding exercises afterwards. Just maintain your strength, hit the gym for 30 minutes a day, run a slught caloric deficit and LIVE LIFE.

Do meetups. Go to parties. Focus on career. I'm going back to school for the medical field and fully understand that I may only be able to work out once a week-- I'll have to do one set of PR lifts for each muscle group on a Sunday or some shit...then back to the other areas of life. I'll lose some serious endurance, but you can bet that it's world's easier to get back to prime from maintenance, than from starting back from scratch.

I'm a rambler. But I truly believe that the gym should only be an obsession for 1-2 years max. After that, it should just be a balanced part of your life.

[–]AscensionExperiments4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You've still got beta mind. Outcome independence, self confidence.

[–]AshyLarry272 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can't treat game like anything else. There are WAY too many variable at play, not to mention the randomness of a human being. Imagine if some of the best baseball players got WAY too inside their head during a slump. Mike Trout is one of the best hitters in all of baseball, could you imagine if he went out to practice freaking out why his batting average is only .337 instead of 1.00? Even Poker is just as good an example. Do the best poker players lose? Yeah but probably at a much LESSER rate than a rookie, right?

RSD did a video a way while back that put things into perspective on life. Their message was on the reality that everyone, regardless of rich, poor, or any circumstance in life, are

- scared


- tired.

Only the best come out on top due to their ability to TOLERATE this, to tolerate the ambiguity and chaos of life.

At the end of the day, these are interactions with other humans. They have so much going on, that you cant expect to bat a thousand.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You’ve nailed a draft in my folder: the pursuit of perfection is the ultimate buffer

Here’s the punchline: you are good enough for any woman merely by existing as a man. we complement each other, it’s what we were made for. if you find fault in yourself that stops you from taking action, then remove the roadblock that stops you from taking action.

In other words, any action that moves the ball towards the goal is a positive action. Any action that does not move the ball is a negative action. Example negatives: excessive monk mode, male hamstering on “why I didn’t talk to her”, bs excuses, etc

Not claiming I haven’t fought (and fight) this battle myself. I’m telling you that taking actions are what keep me moving forward. Yes I get rejected plenty. Yes I make dumb excuses to myself for why I don’t approach every girl I want to approach. That said I do put myself out there & approach often. I take my wins & losses. I could always do better yet as long as I’m not stuck in my head and actually doing something, then I’m making an overall improvement to my life. That’s all I really want out of myself: make things better for me.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

at any point in time...we are either moving forward to becoming more RP...or moving backwards to being BP/beta. There is no 'standing still'. Action, action, action.

[–]Rkingpin2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't lift for girls or attention.

Lift to build discipline and mental toughness which you can apply to more important areas in your life.

Agree with other comments, build an outcome independent mindset.

[–]modern-day-hemingway2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

best post I've seen on here in a while man, took the words right out of my mouth. Wish I had guidance to offer you but seems like we're in the exact same boat brother, wish you the best, let's hope we come out of it

[–]Talinor092 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP, the honest truth is that the magic of life is CHANCE. i.e. if you don't take chances/risks then nothing really happens.

If I look back over my life, most of the time I have been generally unhappy with my body-shape. I'm tall and have good muscle structure however have tended to carry excess weight. If When I look at my dating history, there is zero correlation of bodysize/shape/acceptance with to that of the girls I have pulled. I pulled one of my hottest girlfriends when I was depressed, 22%+ bodyfat, overtired, over-stressed and overworked. She was also over 10 years younger than me, a model, had only slept/dated one dude before me and basically in her physical prime. How did I do it? I took a chance and for whatever she liked me. Needless to say the relationship fell apart as given I became beta as fuck given all the imbalances in my life (diet/work/stress/social etc) but the point was I had my turn through talking to her when everything was nervous and moving up the escalation chain, i.e. got the number, got the first date, got the second, fucked on the third.. etc.

I pulled my second hottest girlfriend (HB9.5) after a break-up with a crazy ex which lead me to being thrown out of my home. How did I do again? Again, I liked her, we seemed to be attracted to each other and I bumbled through with what little game I knew. There literally dozens of guys throwing themselves at her, and I just turned up had a great first date, kissed on the second and banged on third. We dated for 2 years and had some amazing sex and life experiences.

Needless to say I'm single now and far happier than ever before. Not because these relationships made me unhappy, however I wasn't happy with myself before entering them and I didn't have the luxury of time to sort out my shit (diet/exercise/building a strong male social circle/hobbies etc). I'm working on all of this now and absolutely loving the journey. My motivation is to improve myself across a variety of facets so i'm genuinely happy with my progress and in a good place to meet a solid LTR. I'm not doing it for a potential LTR/girl. I'm doing it because I want my shit tight, my life sorted and easy so when I do find someone they compliment me instead of plastering over a weakness or gap in my frame.

I'm also at a point where pussy has never been easier to get. Sure I think my SMV is decent (8+) but I just cast my net wide and girls come and go and a IDAF attitude helps with this. I have slight reservations about not being able to find the dream girls (there are no unicorns) who I can settle down with, however i'm growing so quickly I think in 9 months time I will truly be in the top 10% of guys.

So what's the moral of my story.

  1. Take chances. Don't wait around til you're 8% bodyfat before you begin approaching. You will NEVER be where you want to be, and that is the point of continued growth however you fucking NEED to approach/game girls wherever you are as per point 2. The only caveat is monk mode which relates to point 3.
  2. Abundance - fucking build it. I dated two HB9-10's and where I fell flat was lack of abundance. I didn't have my shit right and my options were limited. Now I find myself responding all day to 5-6, sometimes 8+ girls. Even if it's idle chit chat or banter and you're only fucking 1 or 2, get used to being orbited by attractive girls. Personally I see no future with any of the girls i'm talking to but the constant engagement means I'm used to regularly talking with girls, I know how to test the boundaries so I can calibrate anything from randomly flirting over text, to quick escalation in person. I also know what girls are into, what's cool in their world, which events are on.
  3. If you are single/going through a drought use this time to improve yourself relentlessly. Get fucking obsessed about the results you want, whether physical, social, financial or in terms improving your game.
  4. Enjoy the fucking journey. You will never be perfect. By the time you get the results you want, you'll want even greater results and that's the beauty of it. Life is game so keep fucking levelling hard and the world opens up to you.

[–]Lightning141 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should read up on the difference between Perfection and Excellent. Someone pointed them out to me last year and it's had a profound effect on my frame. I've had a similar issue with chasing perfection, never being good enough, and thinking I need x, y, and z all set up before taking a step.

“Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing.” ... Perfectionism is focused on “doing the thing 'right'”, how things APPEAR, and if OTHERS think it's done right. Excellence is about “doing the right thing"


[–]Anasthaesium1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Let me be honest . I have the same issue . The really good looking ones I like reject me . It defntly gets me going to improve but it’s not lifting or frame or any such shit . It’s being High status in a temporary or permanent environment that these high quality women are exposed to. Example : If your ideal is a model , then a top model agency owner is high status. If your ideal is a hot exec, the successful ceo is high status If you are a b list actress- the A list actor is high status So on and so forth Lifting , grooming and frame - will get you the occassional fuck or maybe even the regular night club fuck . BUT - you will be running in the same place to retain these girl or even have them be into you for a MLTR. To retain high quality women you need a high quality life - grooming , confidence , lifestyle, money , social circle , great body, frame . Hell even half of that will get you a high quality woman.

[–]ThinSpiritual1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't rationalize.... You need to work from the inside out.

Relying on external things to change your mind set won't work (that well), just like chicks who dye their hair, get breast implants, put on makeups, etc etc.

Getting ripped is the same thing, it helps you to build confidence but you cannot overly rely on it. Training alone in the gym and getting tunneled visioned to the "perfect body" will only make you more and more autistic. How about for every time you go to the gym, you also compliment a random chick on the street, don't even need to anticipate a "thank you", just do it for the sake of building confidence outside of gym.

[–]NASCARnormie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

this is like the druggy version of "I've been lifting weights for 3 weeks bro" post

[–]LoLDamo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like need to work on your game rather than yourself.

Getting laid is mostly about frame. You keep talking about SMV like it’s a definitive number your SMV is different to every girl and it’s your job to make the girls you want believe it’s high.

Confidence humour and kino will get you laid with 99% of women.

Are you being straight with women also? You keep talking about the women interested in you rather than the women you are interested in. Just ask a girl back to your place when your on a date you’ll be amazed how many say yes.

[–]goathunter050 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You get rejected because you're not "okay" with yourself. You're not enough in your own mind

[–]CodyCodeine-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like a never ending cycle. It seems like those non obsessive freaks you talked about are happier

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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