what the fuck is the MRA movement actually accomplishing

Silver_The_Bard · 2020-10-31T03:09:46+00:00

If you want me to be honest.

MRA lacks solid leadership.

We're too divided to make a unified front against the issues of male discrimination you listed.

We need some people with real charisma to bring men together, and people like that are in short supply these days.

Altered_Beast805 · 2020-10-31T03:06:22+00:00

I'd just say awareness at this point. I talked to my divorce lawyer and she acknowledged that men's rights was an issue and she would try to overcome what bias she could so I could get custody from my ex who has mental health and drug issues that frequently result in violent outbursts. That she didn't just wave away my concerns and was able to explain in legal terms how men's rights was an issue in my state/county was a good thing and shows that we are moving in the right direction.

Openworldgamer47 · 2020-10-31T03:47:28+00:00

I think the single greatest issue paralyzing our movement is a lack of local organization. If we want our platform to be taken seriously, we need to transcend from the depths of the internet to irl protests. Just look at Bloodstained Men and NCFM. They are perhaps the only men's rights groups that have had any amount of success in America. Posting anonymously is completely useless. We need to start actually marching. Just like every other social movement in history did.

So the more I read, the more reminiscent the Men's Rights community is to a powder keg. The number of MRA's is growing exponentially. All you need to do is look at the membership of communities to discover that. This is a global problem. This is not relegated to America. But we are on the frontlines. It's just we seem to have trouble transitioning into irl protests. I think this may have something to do with the demographics of the Men's Rights Movement. Many of us have been fucked over in various regards, which is why we're here and passionate about the subject. Eventually, someone has to take a stand, and throw themselves into the gauntlet. Hopefully with a couple buddies to back you up when things get hot.

Some foreign organizations have had more success. Like within India the men's rights movement is absolutely monolithic. And yet, somehow, the men in that country actually have more rights than men in America. In the UK there is an organization called "Parity" that is making impressive progress.

The common denominator is that all of these groups have organized locally. They have pooled together their resources, so they are taken seriously.

It's easy to make excuses. And there are many very real obstacles. Feminists do control the upper echelons of power in most western countries now. We shouldn't expect government support, or anyone whatsoever to give us a platform. If we try to organize at a local location then we can anticipate the location's management to get various financial threats and allusions to us being violent misogynists. Our speech is actively suppressed in universities around the country.

The only way to overcome this paralysis is to start protesting and organizing locally.

robo_oof101 · 2020-10-31T05:18:38+00:00

We lack the ability to actually protest or make any difference in the world because we will most likely be misunderstood or just not taken seriously.

Maybe one day we will be able to make a difference.

peteypete78 · 2020-10-31T04:19:30+00:00

There is a guy on youtube who produces some great stuff that examines and explains with evidence how the world is actualy controlled by women, some of his videos are long but well worth the watch.

Colttaine

Accomplished_Reader · 2020-10-31T03:20:52+00:00

I’ll be that guy!

mrmensplights · 2020-10-31T05:47:12+00:00

First, I want to say that the MRM has contributed a lot by simply existing. It's not sexy but it's day by day, post by post, providing literature and support to men and women who have been blindsided by men's rights issues in their lives. It seems small, but the same process allows water to shape stone. Many years ago when I first came to this sub there was literally no counter narrative to feminism. Men suffered in total silence. Over the years feminism has increased it's grip and become more unhinged and that's lead people to search for another answer. Now I see MRA narratives (and other male areas of the internet) pop up all over.. especially among gen z males who are now aware of the incredibly institutional inequalities they face in the school and legal systems and the incredibly risks they face in dating. That's not nothing.

That being said, one issue is that it feels like the MRM has grown stale. MRA's used to have a lot of advocates on youtube and other social media but now they're less active or they aren't shared here. This sub has also lost it's way this year. The posts and comments on this sub have decreased a lot since July 2020. The quality of the sub has also gone down. There's a lot of feminist apologists and "mens lib" like stuff floating around. The posts tend to be more of the same rather than following current events and issues affecting men. It's lost it's vitality and feels stuck in time.

Another issue with the MRM is that it lacks a central ideology. The MRM is a confederation of men with separate issues (intactivism, education system, legal system parental rights). We've come together to share a build a power base but members tend to be invested in a specific issue. Contrast that with Feminism, where there is a central ideology (patriarchy theory) that underpins all feminism.

Someone else here suggested leadership as an issue. Clearly the sentiments exist in the culture and the will is there, so perhaps that is right.

2020-10-31T06:23:12+00:00

It accomplished making male only selective service unconstitutional

TigerThen · 2020-10-31T08:59:34+00:00

It's actually been somewhat successful recently, due process was returned back in universities through new title ix rules, men can now sue for discrimination in colleges when they couldn't before ( many women only groups in colleges have been sued and forced to open doors to men). They are small victories, but still accomplishments

hendrixski · 2020-10-31T16:05:34+00:00

It's not all bad.

Lobbying for paternity leave is going well. Several states have either passed or have proposals for it.
Men's groups are advocating for change in child support laws, this is a HUGE driver in more states recognizing shared custody. Divorce courts are still biased in favor of the mother, but less so than they were even a decade ago.
If you squint, BLM is mostly a men's movement because cases like Breonna Taylor are rare but men of color killed by the police are depressingly common.
Men's rights activists are bringing lawsuits against organizations that have female-only safe spaces but no male-only safe spaces. For example Title IX stuff.
Equal custody groups are the companion to men's rights: they advocate for a child's right to equal access of their father. Check out the National Parents Organization for example.
Men's groups are campaigning for a gender-neutral draft by both lobbying and by bringing legal challenges. Many are doing this by advocating for the ERA (Equal rights amendment).

I mean, it's not like the early 1800's where men's groups were shot and killed because they were protesting for "universal suffrage" (by which they meant all white men). There are lots of other groups that are organizing much much better. I'll use BLM as a great example: they are getting results. If we protested like that and raised awareness as effectively then we would see meaningful change within a decade.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-10-31T08:07:44+00:00

FAQ: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/h80isc/but_mras_just_complain_about_feminism_they_dont/

Temporaryaccount1907 · 2020-10-31T15:30:37+00:00

Why the mrm does not achieve anything:

There are 4 types of people on this forum:

1- feminists who hide their agenda until the time is right then deliberately mass downvote and brigade posts that should be on the front page while making sure that posts that will achieve nothing remain on the front page 90% of the time

2- easily mislead trump supporters, or people with a similar mentality, who have cognitive dissonce when it comes to the middle East (where men's rights are probably at their worst in the world in some areas ) because they refuse to believe that men in that area are anything other than patriarchal demons, even when armed women are literally going around locking up boys and men in concertation camp styled prisons in some parts of the middle East.

3- people who only care about tiny issues that effect them personally, and still spend 50% of their time in this forum talking about women's rights even though if a person on a feminist forum spent 50% of their time talking about men's rights they'd get banned instantly.

4- people like me who actually focus on men's rights, support equal punishment on an international scale and recognise war, prison and biased punishment in general as being the biggest and most important issues men face. I don't sit here with tears falling from my eyes because star wars made a feminist movie like a dweeb, I get upset when I see international support for armed female supremecist malitias like the pkk going around and locking up young boys and men while setting fully grown adult women free who have committed the exact same crime. The pkk in the words of trump, are in many ways worse than Isis. It doesn't make sense for trump to say that, because clearly he has been supporting them militarily for years and probably continues to do so, but for some reason he said that and he is right. The pkk are hypocritical child abusers, who lock up children behind bars and also use child soldiers themselves. They're a bunch of degenerate child abusers and baby killers like Isis, but for some reason they get a halo smacked on their head by certain countries and treated as if they're heroes, because they're training children to go shoot other child soldiers, in the name of "feminism", or in other words flat out female supremecy. What a filthy sickening degenerate world we live in.

Problem is half the people on this forum are that sick in the head that they would probably call the pkk "freedom fighters" when they could instead be calling them "baby killers" "child abusers" "sexist" "hypocritical terrorists" and "flat out worse than Isis". I challenge any prick that disagrees with me on this to a one on one debate right here and now.

Don't just downvote me, if you have a problem with me, then respond with words as to why, and when I respond, you respond back. Failing that you're proving I'm right.

The men and women of the pkk (other than the poor child soldiers who were drafted) belong in prison for at least as long as Isis do. If the world fails to come to that conclusion and fast then get used to anarchy for women and strict dictatorship for men. Get used to a two teir system, get used to young boys getting stuffed into prisons by fully grown adult women who have committed the same crimes as the boys they have locked up and get used to your tax dollars funding it. Shame on this entire world. All child soldiers should be freed and the child abusers on both sides of the war who put the guns in their hands should be jailed. Pkk or Isis, male or female. It is time to bring these evil doers to justice. It is time for equal responsibility and equal accountability whether the child abusing feminists like it or not.

JosephsonAdam · 2020-11-01T09:40:45+00:00

To be successful, we need to grab the attention of people in power. For example, I'e sent the following email to a few pro-choice politicians:

How to give pro-choice-leaning men more pro-choice voting options

As a man who has experienced female sexual abuse, I lean pro-choice; but I've consistently voted pro-life for a few elections now due to the lack of alternative options in the promotion of male sexual and reproductive rights.

While people know about male sexual aggression, we often ignore the scale of female sexual aggression and how this in turn can affect the way a man might vote.

Whereas feminists perceive two positions on male sexual and reproductive rights (pro-paper-abortion and pro-opt-in), non-feminists (incmuding I) perceive at least five separate and distinct positions to advance male reproductive rights (the last three of which aim at reducing the rate of unwanted pregnancies in the first place and so might attract sincere pro-life interest too). To understand these different positions, we first need to understand the male sexual experience and how this could motivate some pro-choice men to vote pro-life.

According to the APA:

'A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor.'

'Being coerced into having sexual intercourse was related to risky sexual behaviors and more drinking among the victims.'

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex

According to the online PDF report Internet sex addiction: A review of empirical research:

The five male pro-choice positions I see are as follows:

Pro-paper-abortion (PPA)

According to this position, human life starts at delivery as a result of the woman's decision to not obtain an abortion.

A man might not have consented to the sexual act leading to the pregnancy.

Sexual assault is extremely difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt and when it can, it might take too long to do so.

Therefore the man should have the right to file for a paper abortion within the first eighteen weeks of pregnancy to permanently forfeit all paternal rights and obligations.

The above is not just theoretical: some actually promote it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_abortion

I presume that supporters view it as a male post-conception equivalent of 'my-body-my-choice'.

Pros:

It could deter a woman from sexually assaulting a man with intent to entrap him through pregnancy.

Cons:

a. It can embolden more men to sexually assault women.

b. It could allow a consenting man to forfeit his obligations.

c. It could legitimize the idea that paternal rights and obligations are secondary to women's and so promote a slippery slope towards increasingly denying paternal rights and obligations.

d. It can enable male sexual addiction by removing a man's responsibility for his actions.

Pro-opt-in (POI)

This position simply takes the PPA position to its logical conclusion: if human life starts only at delivery as a result of the woman's decision to deliver, then it follows that she holds exclusive parental rights and obligations towards the child except to the degree that she allows the father to opt in.

Non-feminists who see the logical conclusion of the PPA position perceive it as a dangerous slippery slope towards the POI position.

The pros and cons of the POI positions resemble those of the PPA position but more significant.

Worse yet, the POI position is not just theoretical either. Some feminists have promoted that position too.

hehimCA · 2020-10-31T05:22:47+00:00

I would also say Movember has been successful. Not Mra per se but male well being. Raised $15m in US last year and much more globally.

dontpet · 2020-10-31T06:30:58+00:00

I know that two of us in my country enjoy and learn from this sub. We have done some good advocacy work, turning around a range of issues.

The war isn't over but a few battles have gone ok.

PS International Men's Day is coming up and it is a great day too attract interest in men's well being. Check out what is happening in your country and give them a hand.

BirdMington · 2020-10-31T07:25:12+00:00

283K members but how many are actually active? 1000? 5000?

Out of those how many are living in the same country and the same state?

And out of those how many are willing to go to protests and rallies?

That's the problem. The majority of men aren't directly affected by injustice so they don't care. Men who are affected already accepted the injustice and the rest are only willing to talk about the topic in a sheltered online world.

Men are taught to just keep going no matter what and hide their feelings, don't ask for help and don't show emotions in public because that's a weakness.

Women are raised differently so they ask for help and get help easily.

I don't see that changing anytime soon because boys are still raised to be closed and headstrong.

d_nijmegen · 2020-10-31T09:44:53+00:00

I think the best thing right now is to grow. So that when a critical mass is reached someone who has the Charisma to speak for the movement can start affecting things.

Someone as competent as Jordan Peterson. I'm not saying pick him. He has his own personal problems.

But for now we must take the rookie numbers and make them go up. Convert men!

hufreema · 2020-10-31T10:53:20+00:00

People care about women's issues; men are disposable. Standing up for "Men" in the same way women stand up for "Women" is, and will probably always be, perceived as insecure, angry, embittered, misogynistic, or unwarranted. You're not going to change peoples' reflexive reaction here. The only way I see the scales tipping again is if there's a neoreactionary cultural wave, that is, men *actually* institute a patriarchy, so to speak, and the odds of this happening are slim to none, at least here in the West.

HUZNAIN · 2020-10-31T15:29:33+00:00

I understand what you are saying, but you must see this 💖

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/h80isc/but_mras_just_complain_about_feminism_they_dont/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

nonononono90 · 2020-10-31T16:16:05+00:00

There’s no leadership because no man with (tons of) money also has these grievances. We are fucked, it is designed in this way. If there’s no working class men to exploit the world would quite literally stop ‘working’. The roads, cars, food, hotels, etc. Are all painstakingly built And maintained by working class men. If you got a break then the economy would kinda collapse. We are the shoulders which bleed my friends. It’s been this way since civilization began.

iainmf · 2020-11-01T03:50:32+00:00

I have done a few things.

Made a submission to the UN for New Zealand's Universal Periodic Review.
Got men and boys included as a population group in the Human Rights Measurement Initiative
Contributed to a Diversity and Inclusion Strategy regarding men's issues
Written to various MPs and organisations about men's issues
Currently working on a secret project

Something everyone can do is to write to an organisation, representative, etc and ask them

How are you including men's and boy's issues in your policy, planning, and actions?
How are you determining that your organisation is meeting its policy and planning targets regarding men's and boy's issues?
How can I make it easier for you to better support men and boys?

Don't ask them if they are, ask them how they are. Asking 'if' means the answer will be 'yes, of course, our policies include men and boys' with little thought. Asking 'how' means they have to think about it more.

You have to be persistent. The next thing to do is put a reminder in your calendar for one month from now, to make sure you have a response, and if you haven't email them again with "(2nd email)" in the subject line.

If they have responded, then there may be something you can follow up with. If they were dismissive, then ask for clarification. EG "Just so I am clear, can you confirm that your organisation has no specific policy to address men's and boys issues."

What is the point?

You are doing something. You are getting people to think about men's and boys' issues. In the long game, this is the first step.

MR_System_ · 2020-10-31T12:45:21+00:00

The MRA movement most people (especially women) think of is woman-hating men who claim women have no issues and men are so powerless we're like women were 100-ish years ago.

The anti-women MRAs are too loud. That gets all the attention and we're seen as a hate group, rather than a group striving for equality.

PeopleBeTheProblem · 2020-10-31T17:07:07+00:00

This isn't true. All that shit still happens, yes, but not to the extent that you're claiming. Yea courts are still biased...but not overwhelmingly. "Crimes against men are ignored 99% of the time" is the biggest piece of horse shit in this post. Homeless men is not a practical joke.

Sentiments like these are why there is slow progress for mens rights. Change all gender identifies in this post from male to female and it's not different than a common thread on r/TwoXChromosomes or r/Feminism

rocketfan543 · 2020-11-01T02:07:18+00:00

We will be just shot down by society of that happens

jinladen040 · 2020-11-02T14:13:48+00:00

MRA's lack people in political power which is why feminism succeeds

MamaMersey · 2020-11-02T19:53:41+00:00

Because its hard to convince people the sky is pink when it is blue.

Think-notlikedasheep · 2020-11-04T17:07:54+00:00

OK, so what ARE we supposed to do?

divorce courts are still overwhelmingly biased against me

To solve this, one needs a ton of money to appeal all the way to the US Supreme Court about violations.

Money men don't have.

male discrimination in schools is still commonplace

To solve this, one needs a ton of money to appeal all the way to the US Supreme Court about violations.

Money men don't have.

And so on and so on.

Is there a pro-male version of the ACLU? Nope.

Is there a pro-male PAC? Nope.

what the fuck is the MRA movement actually accomplishing

Comments

I am openly anti-feminist

Title	what the fuck is the MRA movement actually accomplishing
Author	Vulcanguns
Upvotes	39
Comments	57
Date	October 31, 2020 1:43 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jl9wed/what_the_fuck_is_the_mra_movement_actually/
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