I just had a discussion on whether men have the right to their unborn child. It didn't go well. TL;DR in comments

Lucius_Martius · 2017-02-05T05:46:54+00:00

This is a difficult and complex topic.

You can basically reach equality here by going in one of two directions. Currently the woman has all rights to the child and the man has none. So to restore equality, either per default you both have full responsibility to raise the child, or none of you does.

The first case is hard to argue for, because, and in this they were right, men don't share the risk and stresses of carrying a pregnancy to terms. And on the other side it is unfair to men because the have almost no way of safely stopping a pregnancy if the woman does not use proper contraception.

Which leaves us with the second option, no-one has default responsibility to raise the child. This would mean that men could not be forced into paying for a child that they did not want and women would not need to carry it against their will.

There are downsides to this as well, as it would further destabilize and discourage family planning (at least to smart people). To simplify the problem: If the parents separate, the parent in custody might lose financial support for a child they agreed to have. If the woman wants to abort the child, the man has no handle to have a child they both agreed to have. Who would want to risk having a child under these conditions?

This calls for some kind of contract overriding the default established above. Couples should be able to enter a binding agreement to take on the responsibility of parenthood together, for better or worse. If they separate the woman cannot abort the child (unless they both agree to) and they both cannot get out of financial responsibility or custody (unless one or both are unfit for parenting, which of course needs a complete re-balancing of the family court system to remove the present bias). This would formalize the consent and acceptance of the responsibility to have a child and would improve the situation for everyone (Fathers, children, the state) except women who currently profit from men having no reproductive rights at all.

-redditardation- · 2017-02-05T04:44:21+00:00

Don't you know that EKWALUHTEE is all about giving the wimins all the rights and the oppressive patriarchal pieces of shit none.

Gileriodekel · 2017-02-05T04:39:47+00:00

TL;DR:

4 main people in discussion:

Yellow: Men don't have the right to women's bodies, just like women can't control if men masturbate or get a vasectomy.

My Reply: Men don't have control over when women ovulate or not or get their tubes tied. However, women do have the control over whether men have a child or not, and men don't.

Red: Men have zero reproductive rights outside of choosing who they cum in. Men do not help create a child. Men are not entitled to their unborn children. Men should continue being forced to pay for children they don't want. This bill would make women slaves to men. Its a great thing that men often give 80%+ of their paycheck to their baby-mama, even if she doesn't have a job to support the children as well. You're sexist and disgusting for wanting men to have reproductive rights over their offspring.

My Reply: Men do help create the child. Men are entitled to their offspring. Men should be given the choice of parental responsibility/rights or not. Men are moreso slaves to women since child support can take 80%+ of their paycheck to their baby-mama, even if she doesn't have a job to support the children as well. You're being very rude and I'm blocking you from this conversation.

Orange: Bodily autonomy is important. People should be forced to do something with their body if they don't want to, especially where is puts the mother as bodily risk. Fathers have 50/50 rights to the child after its born. Once we discover a way to remove the fetus and incubate it elsewhere, men should have these rights. hild support laws are shit right now, but 2 wwrongs don't make a right. (while being kind and respectful)

My Reply: I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. Thanks for being nice though.

Apexbreed · 2017-02-05T08:26:41+00:00

You lost the argument when you suggested that men should have rights. Silly you. Only females (after full birth) and animals have rights.

Edit: Trash talking aside, we REALLY need to impress upon people that 18 years of forced male labor IS a risk to the man's life and health. This is an absolute fact.

Regnes · 2017-02-05T05:04:08+00:00

I have come across this article a few times already as well across various platforms. Everytime it was extremely easy to shut down the feminist hysteria.

https://legiscan.com/AR/text/HB1032/id/1485883/Arkansas-2017-HB1032-Chaptered.pdf

Page 4, lines 11 & 12. Boom

Suddenly everybody who made a show of it look like the biggest bunch of morons out there.

EDIT: Speaking of morons, this isn't the article I was thinking it was. Same bill, but the articles I've encountered put the spin on it claiming it allows rapists to sue.

rocelot7 · 2017-02-05T20:14:29+00:00

Here's what grinds my gears; if women have the legal right to their child thus the responsibility should follow, and contraception is incredibly easy to obtain (most health clinics will give condoms away for free.) Thus if a women doesn't want to get pregnant the liability lies with her and if she does when she doesn't she has expressed nothing short of utter stupidity. This irresponsibility should not tolerated.

edit: If men lack reproductive rights than the responsibility of contraception should relay entirely on women. If women have all reproductive rights than onus is on them. If you get pregnant that's your own damn fault.

Rasalom72 · 2017-02-06T18:50:18+00:00

But what happened to "if you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex"?

MagicTampon · 2017-02-05T06:08:02+00:00

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Title	I just had a discussion on whether men have the right to their unborn child. It didn't go well. TL;DR in comments
Author	Gileriodekel
Upvotes	69
Comments	31
Date	February 5, 2017 4:39 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5s5ngh/i_just_had_a_discussion_on_whether_men_have_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-just-had-a-discussion-on-whether-men-have-the.932657 https://theredarchive.com/post/932657

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