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UK media still confusing rape and relationship - "‘Model’ mum had sex with schoolboy then threatened him when he ended their relationship" .... That's Rape Culture.

Imnotmrabut

December 4, 2016
1736 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/04/model-mum-had-sex-with-schoolboy-then-threatened-him-when-he-ended-their-relationship-6300356/
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Post Information
Title UK media still confusing rape and relationship - "‘Model’ mum had sex with schoolboy then threatened him when he ended their relationship" .... That's Rape Culture.
Author

Imnotmrabut

Upvotes 1736
Comments 60
Date December 4, 2016 11:04 AM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5gezcg/uk_media_still_confusing_rape_and_relationship/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-media-still-confusing-rape-and-relationship.936414
https://theredarchive.com/post/936414
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Comments

[+]m4gicz 9 years ago [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

No they are not! This is in the UK not rape, this is sex with a minor. The law defines rape as:

Rape

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

The problem lies in the lawmaking, so the hate should be directed there!

[–]Master_apprentice 142 points143 points144 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

So in the U.K., it is legally impossible for a woman to rape a man.

I hope this is another phrasing difference and there is a law against women forcing sex with men

[–]m4gicz33 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not a lawyer, so I can not answer properly. Also, I'm not from the UK, but I know where I'm from they changed the wording some years ago to be more inclusive and not setting "penetration by penis" as a make or break argument, rather focusing on intimidation, being forceful, unconsciousness and against the wishes of the victim. And according to this wikipedia article, in fact a woman can not be the aggressor in rape(in the legal sense!):

Rape is a statutory offence in England and Wales. According to the law, a rape can only be committed by a male as the penetration can only be done with his penis. If a victim is forcefully penetrated with an object, this is classed as "Sexual Assault by Penetration".

Edit: by going deeper into the rabbit hole I found this as well for statutory rape:

At common law a boy under the age of fourteen years could not commit rape as a principal offender[19] as he was irrebutably presumed to be incapable of sexual intercourse. This rule was abolished by section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 1993. A boy under the age of fourteen years could commit rape as an accomplice.[20] It was never decided whether a boy under fourteen could be convicted of attempting to commit rape as a principal, rather than an accomplice, if he attempted to have sexual intercourse or actually succeeded in doing so. The reported dicta did not agree on this point. A woman could not commit rape as a principal offender, by the nature of the offence, but she could commit rape as an accomplice.

[–]smallworries1 30 points31 points32 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yup women are not responsible for the crimes they commit. Because.. equality man!!

[–]Master_apprentice 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That wasn't my point. I was concerned with what they would call the crime if a woman performed sex acts with a man against his consent.

[+]AggressiveSloth -13 points-12 points-11 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ok don't twist it then you're just as bad as they are.

Women's charges are classes as sexual assault which does carry a lower punishment but that doesn't make them not responsible.

[–]smallworries1 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay, just less responsible then?

[+]AggressiveSloth -8 points-7 points-6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're either responsible or you're not.

This sub is as bad as feminism.

[–]RockyRPG10 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think what u/smallworries1 is trying to say is that under the current law, if a man forces someone to have sex with him, he receives a punishment of (for hypothetical purposes, let's say) 10 years. If a woman forces someone to have sex with her, she only receives a punishment of 5 years. The problem is that despite performing the same action, one is punished less based solely on their biological sex.

u/smallworries1, if I've misrepresented you in any way, please feel free to correct me.

[–]derpylord143 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

it also falls (theoretically) under "causing sexual activity without consent" - which (theoretically) allows as long of a punishment as rape, but i dont think its ever actually been used that way, as it wasnt the intention behind the section. that said im only a student and could (quite possibly) have misinterpreted said section, or the cases its been used on.

edit: see subsection 4 of section 4 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/4 ironically, this would make a better rape law (in terms of what it encompasses) than the current rape law

[–]The1KrisRoB 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Same in New Zealand, a woman literally cannot be charged with rape here. They can be charged with "sexual violation" which carries the same sentence as rape, but they would never be labelled a rapist.

[–]Master_apprentice 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe this is what the Bible thumpers are saying when they say marriage is between a man and a woman. You can still have the same rights as a married couple (or punishment) but we won't call it marriage (rape)

[–]AssAssIn46 28 points29 points30 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Still, if he was under 16, this could have easily been titled:

"Paedophile goes to prison for sexually abusing underage schoolboy"

And look at this gem which is suggest right next to the first paragraph with the photo of a man. That title seems fair to me because it's honest and that man is a disgusting piece of shit. But the fact that the title of this article describes them as having sex instead of any other word which tells people the act is illegal or despicable is also disgusting.

If you were to title this story's title similarly to the one in the picture. It can easily be called:

"Child abuser threatened her underage victim when he wanted to leave"

The whole article is ridden with these little details which make the article with a female abuser (A) seem better than the male abuser (B). Now, I agree that B is much worse but there are parallels which are described very differently such as the buying gifts part. And the title also left out the fact that the boy was suicidal.

Article B: "You groomed her, you bought her gifts, rewards for having sex with you."
Article A: "showered the teen with gifts, including money, aftershave and even an iPhone 6."

The article also included a quote form the defendant to try and draw sympathy:
Defence barrister Sion at Mihangel said: ‘She is deeply sorry for what has taken place. She has lost her job, her husband and family.’

There is no fucking way she is sorry. She threatened him and his new girlfriend with fake pregnancy tests and told them they're "both fucking dead". She had a chance to walk away from it but she didn't. She tried forcing him to stay with her. She isn't sorry for shit, she's sorry that she got caught and lost her job and husband but she isn't sorry for what she did to the boy. She's sorry that her life got ruined, she regrets her actions because of the negative impact they had on her life not his. Yet the article thought it was useful to include that little bit.

[–]AEsirTro 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Better if people contacted the author.

Twitter: @tanny_mann

[–]silverscrub 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well the article could say "UK law still doesn't recognize rape against men" if that is the case, so it's not completely unfair to criticize the media.

[–]Stephen1985 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It does recognise rape against men. But only if you are raped by a man.

[–]dungone1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If the U.K. law told you to jump off a bridge, would you? It looks like there is little interest in critical thinking among the U.K. media; according to your comment they just print what they are told and cannot be held accountable for anything.

[–]YongeArcade 47 points48 points49 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It seems to be the feminist script for any writing since I have noticed the same double standard in Canada.

Male Teacher:

  • Use the term "Sexual Assault" often

  • Use mugshot

  • State again and again that there maybe more victims even if it is proven there is only one

  • Have quotes or comments only about victims. Nothing about the male teacher unless to paint him as a predator.

  • Churn the story over and over at every hearing or court date or school event. Use it to springboard all female victims of sexual assault and get quotes from all feminist groups that are available.

Female Teacher:

  • Use the term "Charged with having sex" once and describe it as a "relationship" there on in.

  • Use a photo of the school or a flattering picture of her smiling from social media or a sympathetic one of her leaving the court house with her head down crying .

  • Never say or question if there may be more victims even if she is charged with assaulting multiple victims.

  • Pass with out comment or downplay details like her stalking, threatening, plying the victims with drugs and alcohol. Where if it was a male that would be highlighted in the story as to his predatory nature

  • Have flattering quotes and comments about her career her accomplishments and how well liked she was.

  • Have the story vanish completely after first report or shortly there after. If a slow news day, might have her sentencing with most of the story on how she is the victim and the personal cost to her and her emotions. Skip over how minor the actual punishment is . Almost nothing about the actual victims, nothing about sexual assault of boys.

Rinse and repeat.

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm in Ontario Canada and this annoys me so much when I see it in the news.

(male sexual assault vs female "she had a relationship")

Such a sickening double standard.

[–]YongeArcade 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It blows my mind that the media does not see it , feminists do not see it. The CBC /Globe and Mail / Toronto Star is wall to wall feminists

It should be caught and corrected on so many levels but it is not. I all most believe it is by design.

They are journalists it should ring alarm bells even in a intern straight out of school would see that they are presenting the same crime stories two different ways --

If the paper described two stabbings, One a Black man "died" and a White man being "murdered", ignore the Black victim and concentrate on the tragedy of the criminal losing his freedom and promising life. Connect the White victim to all other horrifying murders and play up the criminality of the accused.

If some one did that they would be fired and there would be apologizes, mea culpa editorials and new standards/ race education all around.

But has to do with boys and women . Zzzzzzzzzzz

They are wordsmiths -- Words are their stock and trade. Words have meanings and are used to illustrate an idea or a picture. Each one should stop dead when writing out "charged with sex" and ask why they wrote that , that isn't even a crime or a word. The word is sexual assault why am I calling it something else? It must be on purpose I minimized the crime by using another term that does not have the word assault in it .

Again if it was any other group there would be inquiries. Since it is a woman and the victim a boy . ZZZZzzzzzz

They are feminists steeped to the hilt in feminist rhetoric and their rape hysteria . The imagine "rape culture" and "rape apologists" everywhere. Even that Carlton University 'scandal' where the Student union board had to resign because a private chat one male member asked another if he found a female member attractive -- Protests and cries of rape culture from feminists.

These stories are the very definition of rape culture and rape apology. Minimizing the crime , calling it a relationship and focusing on the perpetrator like a tragic figure. It is there screaming from the page but the feminist does not see it since she is the one who wrote it .

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, I don't know why they are promoting this gender bias or who is behind it.

I wish I knew why or who telling the reporters to use gender bias.

[–]theskepticalidealist 23 points24 points25 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Where is his age in this article? It just says "schoolboy" doesn't it?
Ugh. If the boy is 16 or over then it's not even statutory rape, which means he has to be 15 years old or under.

edit: downvote? what on earth for?

[–]Imnotmrabut[S] 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In the UK, under Crown Prosecution policies from case law, the boy would be under 16 at the time of the offences. There is also a rule of thumb that the age difference has to be greater than three years. Also the case is treated as more serious due to the issues of her being in a position of authority and trust over him.

That she tried to blackmail him shows that she was coercive and wiling to use her authority to gain sex by abuse.

[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh sure, not saying there's no crime or misconduct,. My point was that some people might think he could be between 16-18 if they live in places where the age of consent is greater than 16. since all it says is a "school boy". Having sex with a 15 year old is quite different from sex with a 17 year old, so it's good to point out as it's worse than they might think.

[–]Endless_Summer 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Even if he's of the age of consent, if she's in a position of authority over him it's rape.

[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure that's not correct. There may be some charge of misconduct but you can't get charged for undersex with someone who is not underage. Then again, maybe I missed something in the law. If you have a source I'd like to see it.

[–]thrway_1000 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://archive.is/ydp8S

[–]EvilDog77 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What was she modelling? Coffins?

[–]LadySaberCat 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The more I hear about the UK, I realize California isn't so bad :(

[–]you_cant_banme 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

And everyone else keeps confusing rape and statutory rape.

[–]Endless_Summer -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

Non consensual sex is non consensual sex.

If someone can't legally consent, then it's rape. This is black and white.

Edit: good, deny laws and reality and make up your own shit

[–]you_cant_banme -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

There is a difference between rape and statutory rape.

[–]Endless_Summer 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You can say that all you like, but my statement is correct. And it's punished the same.

[–]you_cant_banme -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

A tautology is a tautology. Teach me your learned ways ohh wise one.

[–]Endless_Summer 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Again, consent is a legal term with black and white definitions. By no definition are you correct. You don't have to be such a little bitch just because you're wrong.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If statutory rape was considered the same as normal rape, men wouldn't get 2-6 years for it, since rape is a minimum of 15.

[–]you_cant_banme -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, no. Not even going to bother with an emotional ideologue who can't even have a rational discussion, yet alone can't even grasp basic concepts like A=/=B.

[–]Endless_Summer 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

2/10

[–]you_cant_banme 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

gr8 b8 m8. i r8 8/8

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Then why aren't the penalties identical for stat rape and real rape?

[–]Endless_Summer 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

What states have different penalties?

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

All of them.

[–]Endless_Summer -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Nope, no difference in my state, other than being punished harsher for younger victims. You don't know what you're talking about.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-rape-laws.html

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

http://www.florida-criminaldefenselawyer.com/Criminal-Defense/Sex-Crimes/Statutory-Rape.aspx

You're looking up pure rape charges. Don't be an idiot.

[–]Endless_Summer 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Hey moron, if you read the link you'd see that the penalties are identical. What a dipshit

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Actually it isn't. Good reading comprehension skills there buddy.

[–]Endless_Summer 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Gaslighting. Incredible.

[–]mwobuddy1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

As if that isn't what you're doing whicl making claims that information clearly visibile is not saying what it says.

[–]Endless_Summer1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, I guess you just have to double down at this point.. The shit is in black and white in the two government links

[–]mwobuddy1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Individuals who are convicted of statutory rape in Florida can expect to receive prison sentences of up to 15 years.

Up to 15 years. Max.

Sexual battery committed on a victim under the age of twelve by an adult over the age of eighteen is a capital felony, punishable by the death penalty or life imprisonment without parole.

Death or life imprisonment.

The minimum charge for sexual battery committed on a victim over the age of twelve is a second degree felony, punishable by a term of imprisonment for up to fifteen years. If the prosecutor can establish one of the circumstances established by Florida law, the state can increase the charge to a first degree felony, which can result in a sentence for a term of imprisonment lasting up to thirty years.

30 years.

Do the math idiot.

[–]romulusnr 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gotta love the inset.

[–]flyingfox12 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read it as Quote model quote.

The story is not at all defensive of her. They do point out that she was considered a normal person before this. So I assume that's another reason for the title. Kinda like, it could happen to anyone you know, even this 'Model' mom is sexually assaulting a boy.

[+]YuenHsiaoTieng -6 points-5 points-4 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This garbage needs to stop. There's absolutely nothing wrong with intergenerational relationships.

[–]SlashLDash7 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How about an abusive intergenerational relationship, with grooming, coercion, threats and stalking involving a child under 16 years of age, see anything wrong with that?

[–]YuenHsiaoTieng -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Grooming is a made up word for people who want to judge other's personal business.

[–]Armadillopeccadillo -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're a creepy guy, you know that?

[–]Flaghammer 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Would you say that about a man raping a 14 year old girl?

[–]YuenHsiaoTieng 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

YES

[–]Flaghammer 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then you're the reason laws needed to be written.

[–]babbleon5 -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that's what happens when you dip your stick into crazy...

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