Updating beliefs on women's sexuality

Inareskai · 2021-08-12T14:22:51+00:00

I am a woman. I can tell you that I am enthusiastic about having sex with my partner pretty much constantly. There is no ovulation window in which I am keen and then the rest of the time I just accept it. Across the whole month I am enthusiastically up for sex.

I_like_the_word_MUFF · 2021-08-12T12:53:16+00:00

How do you feel about culture effecting the way people behave over simple biological responses?

sajohnson · 2021-08-12T12:21:56+00:00

My wife likes and desires me because I am a generally good fellow and I make her laugh. She feels valued and loved.

I am not really aware of her “ovulation window,” and she is suitably “enthusiastic.”

It’s not so complicated, man.

Queen_Maxima · 2021-08-12T12:41:03+00:00

Hmmm, I'm a woman, have a lot of female (good-looking) friends between 25 to 40 years old and I don't recognize what you say in any of them. We talk very open about sex. I'm the only one of us who is actually only interested in having sex when having an emotional connection. I also know some dudes who have this. And when I have this connection, it doesn't matter if im ovulating or in my period or in between, I just have sex with my bf every day, because its good for the mood and sex is awesome :)

That being said, both most the ladies and de gentlemen I know don't need to have said emotional bond to have sex with someone. Sometimes they are just horny and go to their partner, fuckbuddies, to parties or on tinder. Whatever rocks their boat. And yes, the ladies do it just as much as the dudes and all have eye for the handsome men out there.

Sorry, but if this is how your marriage is, then I am pretty sure communication is key. Talk with your wife how you could satisfy her. She will be more enthusiastic to sleep with you and from that she will initiate the sex too

PutsWomenOnPedestal · 2021-08-12T13:55:49+00:00

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Torkolla · 2021-08-12T22:42:22+00:00

How many women's opinions do you base this on?How many women have said the opposite?Why do you believe the former group to be representative and not the latter?

And, speaking as a cishet woman, no you are completely wrong.

Soggy-Seaworthiness1 · 2021-08-13T22:40:00+00:00

Nope - ovulation window isn’t a thing - I want to have sex all month round

Venustarr_777 · 2021-08-12T15:59:54+00:00

For number 4, she can have a vaginal orgasm. I've had a couple. Maybe it was the position for the g-spot.

zoemondo · 2021-08-12T21:34:57+00:00

I can say I've recognized each of these traits in other women here and there, so I think you're getting somewhere. But I still wouldn't generalize a whole population.

fynoddyree · 2021-08-14T10:41:01+00:00

Okay, a few things right here and a few things off the mark. I don’t base this just on my experience but that of all the women in my life (we talk about this stuff a lot).

1) you’re right, we’re not as keen on hot men as men are for hot women on the whole. But it’s not totally accurate that women aren’t attracted without other traits - that happens to almost every women (bar the usual asexual etc exceptions), it just doesn’t happen with as many members of the opposite sex. Men (from my understanding) might be sexually attracted to 8/10 (objectively) attractive women in a room, where women would be attracted to 3/10. I’m pulling these numbers out of the air obviously, but mostly just to demonstrate what I mean. We can be sexually attracted to men without other factors, but it just doesn’t happen at the same rate as with men. I know plenty of women who are highly sexually attracted to a lot of men in general, but on average this is what I would say.

2) Correct about ovulation, incorrect about the rest of the time. Libido is personal and varies widely, but the average women is very much in the ‘desire’ category during the rest of their cycle. To what extent is personal, and the average is probably lower than men’s, yes. But certainly not non-existent. Interestingly women tend to have a very high libido during their period as well as ovulation. Hormones spiking I suppose.

3) Some women are, but I wouldn’t say it’s the majority. Probably 50% require an emotional connection and 50% don’t. Certainly on average we require more of one than men do. But emotional connection is such a vague term and I think you’re starting to get into territory where it’s dangerous to try and confine it to a scientific list. Emotional connections (and how the people who have them define them) are subject to influence from everything from race, gender, culture, lived experience, etc. There are some common sense factors (communication, empathy, etc), but the details are highly variable depending on the person, so I would be wary of trying to apply any generic list to one individual. And as I mentioned before, plenty of women are interested in commitment free sex (depending on their stage of life) - I don’t know many women who, in their twenties, weren’t very happy (and enjoyed) engaging in commitment-free sex.

4) Yes this is true. I suspect the reason you’re struggling to get a straight answer is because most women don’t know why so many men suck at it - it’s not us who have the issue, after all. But I suspect it’s a combination of many things - porn being a big one (the portrayal of women’s sexual enjoyment in porn is, for the most part, NOTHING like how real women feel/react/etc). There often seems to be a lack of forethought/putting yourself in their position as well. Imagine someone is about to stick their fingers in an enormously sensitive part of your body. You would expect they would have cut their fingernails beforehand, right? You would think they might start gently to gauge your sensitivity rather than just balls-to-the-wall acting like a jackhammer, right? There are plenty of basic things like that that a surprising number of men just… don’t even consider. Physiologically the clitoris is like the head of the penis and the vagina is like the shaft (they come from the same tissue during foetal development afaik). So few women can finish just from penetrative sex. The clitoris needs some stimulation usually. Different women are different, I can’t give you a hard and fast rule on how much. Men have different sensitivity in the head of their penis - some can barely stand it being touched, some need vigorous attention to get anywhere, some have more foreskin (clitorial hood in women) that changes the sensitivity, etc. To generalise horribly, men have a sort of charge in attitude where women require a bit more thought and consideration. A lot of men’s sexual experience is basically the equivalent of a woman giving a toothy blowjob - the incorrectness/ concern of it is actively a turn off.

There’s nothing wrong with trying to update your beliefs. But you’re trying to find concrete answers to a topic that is hugely variable. Even if you find accurate generalisations, they’re not going to be applicable to specific people because they’re too general. Women have been brought up to believe their sexuality is deeply shameful, and that has a lasting impact on perspective. Newer generations of women are only just beginning to grow up enjoying their sexuality rather than repress it, so I think even my above generalisations will be out of tune with younger people. We have too much baggage created by slut shaming to really be our true ‘biological’ selves.

fynoddyree · 2021-08-15T11:10:59+00:00

Apologies for not using the quote function properly - I’m a bit unfamiliar with Reddit comments/replies in general so bear with!

Well I think the idea that women don’t need to desire sex is maybe a little pessimistic - there is plenty of evidence that women have sexual desires separately. Why would vibrators exist? If women didn’t desire sex, surely all lesbian couples would be entirely celibate? In a scenario where evolutionary theory would suggest women may or may not desire sex, we have plenty of evidence that they do. How much they desire it in comparison to men is a different story.

I think that’s a fair stance to have, and you’re right to be wary in that I am similarly concerned about sexual pressure on women in current times - but I think the nature of progress is two steps forward, one step back with all of these things, and certainly in my circles it has been met positive overall (although I appreciate that’s anecdotal). If one gender desires sex more than the other, there will always be an unbalanced dynamic. But it doesn’t mean the gender that desires it less doesn’t desire it at all, it just means the proportions are different.

Re: women not paying for sex, that still ties with women desiring sex less often than men though, right? The mismatch comes from a combination of men desiring a lot of sex, women desiring slightly less on average, and a culture that encourages men to sleep around but women to be conservative. Given those things, it’s u surprising that sex has become a commodity that women can sell and men will buy - there would already be a mismatch due to the differences in desire levels, but it is just exacerbated by cultural influences. But the sex industry isn’t solely for men - porn companies are businesses and will only do things if there is a target market for them. The fact that there are now entire categories specifically dedicated to women’s viewing pleasure is testament to there being an audience for it. And it’s my pleasure - hostility creates barriers, it doesn’t break them down. But please don’t judge the women who are a bit hostile too harshly. They’ve been told who they are and who to be by men their entire lives, and the perception that women don’t want sex can be a fatal one (if we look at the incel shootings) so I know it’s a touchy subject for a lot of women with very real consequences. Reacting with hostility is wrong, but it comes from a relatively traumatic place for a lot of women.

I would say it’s easier for men to get sex - as easy as for women, probably not. But again, I acknowledge there’s a disparity between the average level of male and female desire - but in liberal cities I would say the balance is much, much closer than in cultures or areas that promote celibacy/ chastity/ tie a woman’s sexual behaviour to her inherent value or moral worth. To reference my previous reply, if a woman is sexually attracted to 3/10 men in a room (before any other emotional etc connection is made) and men 8/10 women in the equivalent room, that imbalance will mean more men will struggle to have sex because women are more selective with their partners. Again, we have no evidence for what average female libido levels are when all cultural influence is stripped away, but certainly the liberal women I know are not far off the same levels of desire as the men I know - they are just more discerning about partners. But again, when your average man makes for a clumsy sexual partner and you have plenty of resources and equipment for pleasuring yourself at home, sometimes that becomes the alternative. Likewise, my gay and bisexual female friends are generally more sexually active because their average ‘one night stand’ type partner is going to provide a better experience (being female and understanding the anatomy better) - but this is anecdotal obviously, I can’t claim that’s a universal truth.

I should spend longer checking for other examples but I’m a bit time limited on my replies, so the main example that comes to mind is a giraffe’s circulatory system. If you look into the way the blood vessels run from the heart, they loop up to the head in a way that requires enormous energy and pressure from the heart in order to circulate blood - if you were designing the system as an engineer, you would absolutely not create it that way. Other small examples are our body hair (eg armpit hair particularly), wisdom teeth, the mid-tarsal break in our feet, etc. While these are all biological (much easier to prove vestigial status than with behaviours), it shows how messy evolution - it’s trial and error, and while the nature of natural selection means it usually results in beneficial structures and behaviours, it doesn’t mean everything can be explained by the most obvious evolutionary benefit. I still believe female sexual desire is both real and of evolutionary benefit, but even if it weren’t beneficial at all, that wouldn’t be a clear cut proof that it therefore can’t exist. There’s no reason for the male prostate gland to be a pleasure point for men (although it serves other important functions) from an evolutionary perspective because that would be promoting intercourse between males rather than male and female, and yet it categorically is a sexually sensitive organ.

MilkchocolateHero · 2021-08-20T22:39:10+00:00

I'm curious as to what your goal is?

Are you trying to get a wider perspective on the variances in women's sexuality?

dissonantclear · 2021-08-12T12:24:57+00:00

Are you sure you’re married, especially for that long? Was it an arranged marriage, or did she need a green card or something like that? Most people get married because they feel a deep emotional connection, as opposed to feeling bitter about trying to create one 20 years in.

I’m demisexual myself, but most women are allosexual. Watch some Korean dramas and read online discussions and listen to podcasts about them if you want examples. Viki is a popular streaming service for kdramas, and my husband always says “They know where their bread is buttered” when their banner comes up, with its shots of all the male leads taking a shower or running shirtless or getting greased up shirtless before a MMA fight, etc.

Speaking of my husband, next month we’ll have been married for 19 years. I love him a lot and I feel deeply connected to him and I want to be close to him all the time, and I know he loves me and cares about me and respects me.

Title	Updating beliefs on women's sexuality
Author	PutsWomenOnPedestal
Upvotes	0
Comments	71
Date	August 12, 2021 12:11 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/p2yk28/updating_beliefs_on_womens_sexuality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/updating-beliefs-on-womens-sexuality.958742 https://theredarchive.com/post/958742

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