Can one be an MRA and think Paul Elam is a dumbass?

PM_ME_UR_PLANTS · 2015-07-27T16:10:12+00:00

If I were to pick the archetypal male MRA, I'd pick Warren Farrell.

andejoh · 2015-07-27T16:24:14+00:00

Yes, MRAs are free thinkers by nature.

Sanguifer · 2015-07-27T17:07:43+00:00

This is a human rights movement, not a religion - or a popularity contest. We don't have a pope. We just have issues to adress.

snoopyzanus · 2015-07-27T16:22:00+00:00

I think the MSM is the dumbass here. Why? Because Elam's schtick is a deliberate tactic designed to get the MRM press when it is otherwise utterly ignored.

I don't like that style at all, but I understand why he does it and why it works. The media only wants to report on the MRM when it can be painted in a bad light. Elam's provocative satire gives them this opportunity--the pay off is the knowledge that a percentage of those checking out A Voice for Men will look beyond the style and see the substance.

The alternative is no coverage at all.

For decades, Warren Farrell sincerely bent over backwards (until he must have cracks in his spine) to be diplomatic, gentle and kind to all and it just resulted in feminists smearing him as a pedo and a rape apologist, and otherwise ignoring him.

My take is that Elam's schtick isn't what it is because that's what he wants to do, it is what it is because that is what gets the MSM to report on men's issues.

One good thing is that on social media, where there is much less gate-keeping, people like Karen Straughan, Sargon of Akkad, and Christina Hoff Sommers can speak out against feminist extremism and SJWs without having to resort to the provocative style needed to get reported on in the MSM.

*Typo edit.

Blutarg · 2015-07-27T17:17:45+00:00

The answer to your question: yes.

If Paul Elam lacks tact, maybe it's because he's spent decades banging his head against a society that monolithically thinks men's problems should be ignored when they aren't laughed at, including most men...until they get screwed over, at which point suddenly they beg him for help.

wazzup987 · 2015-07-27T15:11:37+00:00

Hes controversial and heres the thing his tactics work. when the mrm played nice we got all the shit we get now and no one payed attention. now we still get all the shit but people are starting pick up our issues in the main stream. squeaky wheels and grease.

but no you can be an mra without liking elam or even thinking he is a dumb ass. same with janet bloomfield. i cant stand her. her traditionalism pisses me off.

cymrich · 2015-07-27T16:52:59+00:00

I don't remember any membership clauses that stated you must like someone... maybe I didn't read the fine print...

Tedesche · 2015-07-27T23:07:50+00:00

Absolutely. I consider myself an MRA and think he acts like an idiot a lot of the time. I agree with a lot of the points he makes, but his general attitude is shitty and sometimes I question his motivations.

More generally, I think some MRAs go way too far with their criticism of feminism. I absolutely think it deserves criticism, but calling it a hate movement that has never done anything good for society is just loony. It's these folks that are making the MRM look bad, and who got it labeled at hate movement by the SPLC. They may be the loudest and most active members, and their antics may have garnered some attention for the issues, but I still think they cause more harm than good.

xNOM · 2015-07-28T02:36:57+00:00

Men's rights is not a religion.

ghebert001 · 2015-07-28T14:30:34+00:00

There is a reason why Paul does what he does. His brand ofRA activism is harsh but it often leads to media coverage whereas the polite MRAs are never given much, if any, attention.

Lobstermansunion · 2015-07-27T18:43:47+00:00

Paul Elam is not the leader of the MRM and it is perfectly ok to think he is a dumbass. Even he doesn't care if you think he's a dumbass. He'd tell you to get off your rear and get to work and prove how your way is better than his.

WaitingToBeBanned · 2015-07-27T17:37:23+00:00

Yes.

2015-07-27T18:42:50+00:00

I sure hope so. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to disavow my claim as an MRA.

CraftyDrac · 2015-07-27T20:46:21+00:00

Ofcourse

Honestly, it's bloody stupid to call yourself a MRA regardless, just like calling yourself a feminist is stupid - you are a person with opinions,that you form on your own, identifying yourself with a single group is idiotic

Lethn · 2015-07-27T15:52:53+00:00

I expect you'd like someone like Christina Hoff Sommers a lot more, haven't even bothered looking at those two you mentioned so they probably aren't worth really bothering with anyway.

2015-07-27T17:48:22+00:00

Evidently yes...

What is this sub's general consensus regarding Paul Elam? He's the most prominent MRA I've heard of. Do you support him? Do you think he represents the sentiments of your movement well?
There seems to be some polarised opinion of the mra standard bearer, from mras I have spoken to online and irl. So, shining light or liability?
Why /r/MensRights should distance itself from Paul Elam and call him out
Isn't it hypocritical of us to say that feminists should denounce their radicals, yet we don't?
I really don't like Paul Elam ... I'm concerned that he puts a bad taste in the mouth of people that are on the fence

mochacola · 2015-07-27T16:38:31+00:00

Paul, is a dumbass? His tactics may be debatable but if he's highly effective for MRA at this moment in time, why not?

However it seems like a ton of the major MRA's are scummy people.

I disagree. Many figures who may not be directly associated with MRAs, but speaks volumes for MRA's cause or position, are some of the most amazing people: Erin Pizzey, CH Sommers, Camille Paglia, Wendy McElroy, Warren Farrell, Karen Starughan, and okay, another controversial one, Milo Yiannopoulos, also new comer Lauren Southern. That's a better line up than freakin' superheroes.

Gryphoneer · 2015-07-27T18:07:17+00:00

Gigantic dumbass. At best a dancing clown for attention (getting it doesn't make him better than an embarrassing clown). At worst incredibly damaging to reason represented by guys like Warren Farrell, who has done far more to establish a real platform than Elam will ever do. It doesn't matter if Farrell's gentle manner doesn't win headlines - it brings real progress by forward thinkers who know what's up, while Elam is simply a reactionary demagogue riding on a groundswell. He'll be forgotten in time.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-07-27T14:58:13+00:00

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sactothrash · 2015-07-28T17:44:53+00:00

I made a similar post a while ago. So yeah I totally agree with you :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3dfojq/i_really_dont_like_paul_elam/

2015-07-28T19:36:13+00:00

He's a noisemaker he gets attention. Karen Straughan said something to the effect of "You need loud and outrageous people to get attention".

I'm not a huge fan of him either but I haven't read anything of his I've found wrong it's usually just a lack of tact (maybe intentionally).

DirtSack · 2015-07-27T21:25:47+00:00

I've always thought that Paul Elam was to Malcolm X as Warren Farrell is to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Extreme, but essential.

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-07-27T22:22:31+00:00

If you think he's a dumbass you are a dumbass. He's a jerk, but being a jerk is not the same as being dumb. His style has gotten MRM issues more attention in five years than nice guy Warren Farrell's has gotten them in thirty years, so that's one pretty useful jerk right there.

mwobuddy · 2015-07-27T19:18:06+00:00

Paul Elam started out good. He had a channel with some videos about how women dont understand men, and how acting like a PUA got you laid far easier, because women don't respect nice guys. He talked about how he was getting more action after divorce because he was always looking busy and treating women like just another guy or something, so he was doing PUA work by disarming, looking interesting, etc. and used that to show that it's not really about a man's character when women are attracted to someone.

He was really spot on early, but then he started going a little crazy. No doubt its from all the fighting with feminists he has been doing, for when you look deep into the abyss, it looks back into you or whatever.

He says a lot of inflammatory disagreeable things nowadays, but those things, in general, are still things I agree with.

angdev · 2015-07-27T21:21:46+00:00

I do not agree with everything Paul Elam says, but he is the entire reason I even learned about Men's Right's in the first place. So to answer your question: Yes.

wisty · 2015-07-27T23:10:17+00:00

Yes.

But I think he's more self-aware than you might think - he knows that saying stupid shit (but with a little plausible deniability if you read what he says carefully) gets people talking about him, which raises awareness.

He actually wants to be a drama llama, because he knows it gets attention. Whether or not you think he's putting on the role gleefully or reluctantly is up to you though. I have no idea.

Funcuz · 2015-07-27T23:38:02+00:00

Absolutely, yes you can be an MRA who doesn't like Paul Elam.

In his defense though : He's using an old trick that the feminists used back in the seventies.

Nobody listens to you when you're just pointing at the sky and saying it's going to rain. Jump around screaming that there's a hurricane coming and suddenly people start to panic. He knows he's crass and crude but he's actually very careful about which words he uses. There's no such thing as "bad press" when you're trying to get your movement noticed. Think PETA. Yes, everybody hates PETA but now we all know who they are, right ? You may never donate one single red cent to PETA but the odds that you'll do something for just about any other organization helping animals went way up. This is exactly the same rationale.

Title	Can one be an MRA and think Paul Elam is a dumbass?
Author	Raskolnikov1817
Upvotes	21
Comments	56
Date	July 27, 2015 2:57 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3erzyy/can_one_be_an_mra_and_think_paul_elam_is_a_dumbass/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/can-one-be-an-mra-and-think-paul-elam-is-a-dumbass.974588 https://theredarchive.com/post/974588

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