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Why is it a bad deal?

brightglowup
August 21, 2022
3 upvotes
/r/AllPillDebate
Crosspost "Why is it a bad deal?" from /r/PurplePillDebate:

When it comes to sex, I usually hear women say the following:

  • I had sex with Chad, Tyrone, etc... not because I liked them, but because they were an itch scratcher and they fulfilled a need. No feelings involved, just used for sexual release.
  • I am making you wait for sex, because I like you a lot. I have more to offer you than just my body and I respect you more than I did those men I just had sex with.

Why is it a bad deal if women make you wait because they want to give you more than their body?

Posted by theorangesmile | 19 August 2022 | Link

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Post Information
Title Why is it a bad deal?
Author brightglowup
Upvotes 3
Comments 48
Date August 21, 2022 2:10 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/why-is-it-a-bad-deal.1139655
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139655
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/wu0j83/why_is_it_a_bad_deal/
Red Pill terms in post
ChadTyrone
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Comments

[–]BlackPillPusher 10 points11 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I'd rather women like me for my body rather than the content of my wallet.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

I'd rather women like me for my body rather than the content of my wallet.

What's the difference? It's all utility. We already know this bc men trade money for 😻

[–]BlackPillPusher 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are not wrong, but one of these options is much cheaper, and I like savings the money and micro giraffes.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

but one of these options is much cheaper,

Yeah. Calling my humanity cheaper doesn't help your case.

People can always make money. When you are used, abused, and discarded as a human being, you dont get "you" back. Its why society protects the innocence of children. Its why men "need" respect.

It's astronomically "cheaper" for the person who needs to make money, which is both genders now btw, than the person who's body is used.

You already agree with this if u are anti draft. After all. The miltary pays u money as a soldier. Tell me. Does that make up for being used as bait and cannon fodder

[–]BlackPillPusher 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be frank here this sounds like a you problem which I really can't be bothered with.

Also the military pays conscripts shit money to their slaves, which I know since I was drafted as a teenager.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

There is a big difference...

From a purely pragmatic point of view having sex is having sex, no matter the means or the circumstances.
The point is that our minds are not exclusively pragmatic.

Having sex with someone on the seashore after you both vowed eternal love to each other.
Having sex with someone you met at a party a few hours ago and whose name you can't remember.
Having paid sex with someone in a hotel room.
Having sex with someone you locked and tied up in a basement.

In all of these situations you are having sex but you can't tell me that in the end they are all the same.

[–]BlackPillPusher 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Except it's absolutely the same, you hump it out, hormones fly, you finish, might have a baby sometime later on, the world keeps on turning and you didn't learn a damn thing, except maybe how to tie someone in a rape dungeon which is a very leonard lake-y thing to do and that's something nobody wants to be.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Except it's absolutely the same

No, it's not the same thing.
And it seems that we have reached a dead end in which we're both very convinced of our idea, so there is not much point in going on, although...

By way of closing I would like to put a situation to you:
A person has a book that you are very interested in reading. What would you do?
-Borrow the book
-Buy the book
-Steal the book
-Beat her/him up and take the book
In all the options you get what you want, but are all the options exactly the same?

Having sex with someone because she/he likes you physically and having sex with someone because you're paying are two completely different situations to me.
These topics are vey subjective, so I can understad if you think it's the same.

[–]BlackPillPusher 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's just a book, there are better ways of getting it without going to prison while harming innocent people, just pay for it, is it clear enough yet?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The book isn't the important part of the approach. You can imagine it's anything you find valuable...

Anyway. As I said, there's no point in pursuing this any further. It's better to leave it here.

Be well.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chad is getting hilariously better sex. You're getting the starfish treatment.

Also gender flip this and ask a woman if she thinks she's being honored or insulted if you leave her on the shelf for last.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW // أشهد أن لا حبة إلا الحبة السوداء 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

basic economics. the more you want something, the faster you want it and the less of that thing you're willing to accept in exchange for more on your part. you truly love a guy, you really like him a lot, more than the guy you fucked an hour after meeting, but unless you're giving billy beta all the anal and bj's you gave chad within 59 minutes, your choices don't line up with this simple and elegant rule of economics.

in other words: women voted with their genitals and we're just counting the ballots. those ballots might not line up with what people say or even believe they want, but if somebody's running for office, they're the only thing that matters. and to the men on here... if you're not her first choice, you're not her first choice. you can seethe or you can breathe.

[–]optimus69prime69 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why should the man invest money, time in this girl while she's bringing nothing to the table and will hop on the first Chad that looks at her? It's a bad deal because it's one sided. She isn't giving anything in return.

And some say she's giving him more than her body. Sorry but the mind/loyalty of a high n count person is nothing to wait for.

[–]MarBitt 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For me, a woman who divides men like this into humans (who are body and soul, have feelings) and non-humans (who are just an itch scratcher) is not interesting. It's a terribly superficial approach to life, relationships and other people.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because it's bullshit.

Dangling sex like a prize only for SOME men is trash behavior.

I've always slept with guys I like quickly. I don't treat guys I see as long-term differently than guys I see as only short-term when it comes to sex.

I'm either attracted to you or I'm not.

Shocker: men like this.

How can a woman claim to really like a guy and then try to fucking play him?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your honesty!

That's how men feel when put in that situation. He feels like he's being played for his attention and resources when there's no guarantee that he will have access to sex.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sociopathic dudes do this to women just the same when they can. Sociopaths of either gender want to keep "that backup option" they fall back to when they're done sowing their wild oats.

[–]shreyastalpade 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Except men need to be good looking for pulling this off.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Having to be patient (for weeks, months or even years), invest money, time and make efforts just to hold someone's hand with the knowledge that this same person has had (or would have) rough and uncompromising sex with another person(s) in matter of hours or even minutes, is humiliating.

I find it hard to believe that many women can't reach this deduction.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It's a compromise. A woman's value for dating is all packed between the age of 18-30. A successful man can have access even in old age.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I understand your point (although I do believe many women in their 30's, and a few in their 40's, can still date); however, I don't see your statement working as a counter-argument to my statement.

If a woman in her 18-30's (or any age) asks you for commitment, time, money and effort but has had (or would have) sex with another person(s), in matter of hours or minutes, without asking for anything else besides sex itself...
It's quite hard not to feel humiliated in this situation, don't you think?

I'm not saying that a woman can't carry out this strategy: have sex without commitment with certain types of people and then seek serious relationships, with little or no sex, with other types of people. She is free to do that. However, a man is also free to think and feel whatever he wants about this behavior.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your right. We think along the same line.

If a woman in her 18-30's (or any age) asks you for commitment, time, money and effort but has had (or would have) sex with another person(s), in matter of hours or minutes, without asking for anything else besides sex itself...

It's pretty hard not to feel humiliated in this situation, don't you think?

I'm a man, so I'm playing devils advocate here, a woman who finds herself single and "old" is also humiliated. In the east, we call these woman, left over woman. In the west, we call them cat ladies.

I'm not saying that a woman can't carry out this strategy: have sex without commitment with certain types of people and then seek serious relationships, with little or no sex, with other types of people. She is free to do that.

However, a man is also free to think and feel whatever he wants about this behavior.

We agree here too. I think the appropriate response to women who sleep around during their youth and then becomes a born again virgin after 30 is to not give her what she wants, commitment.

So anyways, my point is, as a young man, you're frustrated that you can't get sex. And the "trade off" is a old woman gets frustrated because she can't get commitment.

The only wrench in this idea of cosmic karma/justice, is that beta simps have such low standards, they will be more than happy to wife a single mom in her 40s.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a man, so I'm playing devils advocate here, a woman who finds herself single and "old" is also humiliated

I find this behavior of treating women in their thirties, or close to that age, like grannies very distasteful (the first post I wrote for this subreddit, a week ago, addresses the issue).
I also find it quite annoying when obese or heavy women are referred to as "land whales."
However, you have to admit that women of our times aren't very nice either when they talk about the physique of men who don't fit their standards (dwarf, midget, manlet, dicklet...). This whole outlook is a clear display that hate begets hate.
You also have to recognize that being single and "old" (or actual old) is negative for anyone, male or female, in almost any culture.

Anyway, in the end there is not much to debate between us. Be well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fine. I understand your sentiment.

I think the whole purpose of marriage is to have kids. If you're not having kids, don't get married. (That's my take)

In that sense, women who are "old" are nearing the end of their fertility window. I think as a general rule for men, we want to have our own biological children. I think its the rare man that seeks to raise another's man child.

So the question becomes, what age is too old? The average woman becomes infertile around mid 40s. If we consider the process of courtship, followed by marriage, we can say 1 year? Then if they are old, conceiving a child may take up to 2 years. Then we have to consider risk of abnormalities. Maybe 1/100 chance for down syndrome at age 40 is too much. Maybe you would take the risk of 1/350 at age 35? Or maybe 1/1000 at age 30?

You see where I'm going with this.

Anyways, what's consider old is subjective to your requirements to date/marriage.

Maybe you don't want kids. That's fine. So then you would disregard all the points above and date a woman at any age. And there's men that do do that.

But for the average man, I'm sure they want kids, atleast 1. So the age does become important.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Red pill here.

There is no hate. Women are the way they are. Modern society just attempts to lie and say women are somehow better than the way they are, is all.

Key red pill message for guys is this: make yourself all you can be, and you’ll have the best life you can.

So, if you’re a 3, go to the gym and get rich and successful. Then you’ll be more than a 3.

I now hand over to the blackpillers, for whom hate may be an area of expertise…

[–]BumblingBeta 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Why can't she have sex early with the second guy AND do other things which show that she likes him more than that? That's what I've never understood.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

She got alpha Widowed that's why.

[–]BumblingBeta 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Probably. I'm just confused how waiting for sex = showing you like him and respect him more? It's actually the opposite. Men will think you don't like them and don't respect them if you do that.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

how waiting for sex = showing you like him and respect him more.

Some Women waits as they don't want to be used or religious reasons.

Again alpha Widowed,she is stuck in her feelings for ex.In this phase, when she meets guy she likes,she will take it slow otherwise it will remind her of her ex She gets careful and trying to forget him even if new guy is also Chad.

Men will think you don't like them and don't respect them if you do that.

No matter what man feels,you will be slut and lose value if you give sex early.If you do that,you will be just placeholder.It doesn't matter if he develop feelings, relationship will end.This doesn't applies if you are married.

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Plz explain to me what alpha windowing is. I'm genuinely clueless.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

woman, usually with average sexual market value (SMV), who sleeps with a high sexual market value male , a/k/a the alpha male, who does not wish to have a long-term relationship with the woman. The woman views the alpha male as superior to most, if not all, of the other men pursuing her, and so the woman continues to lust after the alpha male she cannot have, sacrificing future long-term relationships with lower-SMV men, making her a "widow", in a sense, to the original alpha male.

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ahhh okay. Thank you for explaining this.

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Because she's not attracted to him.

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why can't she admit that?

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because he wouldn't be in a relationship with her if he knew the truth.

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why can't women just be on their own instead? I thought they were "strong and independent" and "don't need no man".

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why be on your on when you can get some naive dummy to finance your life?

[–]Taipanshimshon 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I really don't know what the argument is.

For something to have value it has to BE valuable.

If a given person has given it away for free ... Whether that's attention or something else... It's not valuable.

So I absolutely have a 3 date rule.

Here is why....

If you said yes to a date ... You obviously like me enough to consider sleeping with me.

Date 1 is to make sure we aren't totally weird to each other.

Date 2 should involve something more physical after having fun with each other.

If it's a " no" from date #2... Why are you agreeing to date #3??

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I am firm believer of "You will get man fuck you and make you loose but at the end of day tight virgin is going to get ring"

I don't know why(my opinion is different) but I believe man is willing to wait if he truly likes you.Otherwise ignore them,it doesn't matter what they say.You will lose high value man if you agree to have sex early.Even if he asks,say no.

I know it is controversial but I will never believe man will seriously date woman if she gives him sex early unless it is normalised in culture.Man's sleeping around dont have consequences unless he get someone pregnant and pay child support.It is nature that Man can fuck around and still love his main girl but will leave that girl if she slept with other guy even if he is sleeping around.

If I give sex in 4-5 th dates,I will immediately believe he is going to dump me.

But if she had before like with Chad or whatever then she is screwed up and useless.She is going to face consequences.No men take her seriously even if she is reformed.I don't believe man who gets mad at her for not giving sex want to date her,he is also looking for sex.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dick doesn't make pussy loose 🤣

I have slept with most guys I've dated almost immediately. Never had a problem getting long-term relationships. The idea you have to wait to have sex to get a man interested is beyond bizarre to me. If anything men find it refreshing I'm honest about my attraction and don't care if sex comes with commitment, sex is an exploration, not something I dangle along to see if he'll commit.

Commitment comes from liking each other.

Your concept of "main girl" vs. women he sleeps with is downright sad to me. Plenty of men value being faithful to their partners. I am turned off immediately by men who say the "main girl" shit because they're selfish assholes who want to have their cake and eat it too.

Men sleeping around in a relationship does have consequences...women with any self-respect dump them or avoid them from the start. I'm sorry your bar is so low you think a guy cheating on you is perfectly ok behavior, that sounds like hell.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

No man would argue that a 9/10 woman is the same as a 3/10 woman outside of, maybe, chauvenists claiming its all pink in the middle. Even then, pink pill, men modulate their treatment of women based on their attractiveness

How does the manosphere, aka representatives of the "logical sex", justify hating women for not fucking a 3/10 male like she would fuck Chad.

Men attack FDS calling them ancient landwhales as a premise to dismiss their standards for high value men

And yet men whose genetics literally violate female imperative are but hurt bc they are not interchangable with Chad for a cheap date and a one night stand.

Even women who hate men but will get IVF for children control against ubdesirable traits because our job as the female sex is to do our best to ensure our offspring survive. Not everyone's sweet baby can survive Andrew Tate's speech inpediment and lack of a jaw yet modern men expect modern women to endure abuse, male unattractiveness, a delusions of grandeur.

Why?

Where has male dignitity gone

As always, I cannot respond to u as normal in a sub of mass downvoting hating males slowing down my response time. But I will, eventually, respond to all sincere rebuttals.

Thank u.

[–]BumblingBeta 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What life risking pregnancy? We have birth control and abortions.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

What life risking pregnancy?

I assume you ask this in good faith. A LOT of women in the US die during childbirth. Black women are 3x as likely in this "1st world country" to die during childbirth.

And when men assume women just pop out kids, they do not consider the thousands of families dealing with extremely expensive complications. If your kid is premature or has some kind of deformity, the costs are astronomical

And even in the best circumstances, postpartum depression is fairly high. Do u know what happens with moms like this who cannot function? For both mom and baby?

What about permanent damage to the womans body? What about women who bought the "50/50" scam and cant work with a complicated life threatening pregancy with a man who she subsidized in this economy

Respectfully tell me ur joking

Maternal death and complications is why I dont take men crying about the draft seriously. Ever. Men who give a shit about women have some idea about this. Childbirth is one of the most dangerous times in a woman's life. Our numbers of maternal in the US is amongst the absolute worst

[–]BumblingBeta 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

With birth control and abortions, you never need to have a child, regardless of if you have sex with Chad or Joe Average.

I'm not talking about actually having a child. Although if you went ahead and had a child, your risk of dying would be equal, regardless of if you had sex with Chad or Joe Average.

[–]alienamongnormiesBlackPill 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And yet men whose genetics literally violate female imperative are but hurt bc they are not interchangable with Chad for a cheap date and a one night stand.

I want to bring up a point no one else is bringing up: Why aren't people mocking Chad for fucking 3/10 landwhales in the first place? When you date and even fuck below your league, especially significantly below your league, you are making the dating marketplace worse for every other man. As someone whose only ever actually enjoyed sex with 2 women despite being with 9 women and 14 hookers, I don't understand how Chad even enjoys fucking 3/10 landwhales. I've fucked landwhales. Does nothing for me. Pussy does not inherently feel amazing. The grip from your own hand is going to produce more friction on the penis than a vagina. Point blank period. It's the oxytocin (love drug) that makes sex feel great. I can't get oxytocin fucking a landwhale.

life risking pregnancy

Unless you live in a Republican state that bans abortion, you can just get an abortion you know. And the Joe Biden administration has made it legal to cross state lines to get an abortion. I hate the "muh pregnancy" excuse.

And honestly I wish Republicans fucked off with the abortion bans. Red/blackpillers seem to think that incels are going to get action now if abortion is banned. Do you really wanna fuck a woman who doesn't get her pussy wet for you? I know what it's like to make a woman wet. A woman who is wet for you will put more effort in the bedroom to please you. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who wasn't into me. Which is why I am very vocal against sugar daddying, tricking, beta providing and stopped escortcelling 3 years ago.

Where has male dignitity gone

That's what I want to know. But for different reasons than you likely. I want to know why men are so thirsty in 2022 dating and fucking well below their league and so lacking in self-respect.

I cannot respond to u as normal in a sub of mass downvoting hating males slowing down my response time.

This is one thing I don't like about Reddit's design. People with controversial opinions have their sub karma in the negative and then can't respond more than once every 10 minutes. This encourages a hivemind culture. I disagree with your pink pill views but I think people with differing view points should be allowed to debate without interference from the reddit admins.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I want to bring up a point no one else is bringing up: Why aren't people mocking Chad for fucking 3/10 landwhales in the first place?

I will tell u this pink pill

Men rely on men for validation. For example, a trophy wife or a hot gf extends status to (vapid) men on sight. Other men assume he has some kind of extra value due to his ability to have (or buy) a very attractive woman

Chad's status is not in question. Chad is just assumed to be getting an "easy lay" with ugly women

Not once (or maybe mildly so) is the woman's personhood considered in the mind of misogynists

Slightly less misogynistic people might humanize Chad and humanize the 3/10 he relates to

Ugly women live tough lives like men. Sometimes harder. This creates personas so many misogynists enjoy in their bros but think women lack the aptitude to have

Add a vagina on the 3/10 and now Chad has all the niceties all women are groomed for in the short term from someone he relates to

And the lessers dont question bc they know he doesnt need her for status. Just utility.

This is how men look and treat women.

[–]alienamongnormiesBlackPill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And the lessers dont question bc they know he doesnt need her for status. Just utility.

What utility does Chad need her for? I've fucked landwhales. Jerking off is more pleasurable. My hand can get me off faster than a pussy. The whole point of sex is oxytocin, not friction and ejaculation. Fucking a landwhale doesn't release oxytocin in my brain. I've fucked a lot more than one landwhale. I've tried it multiple times. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That I just don't bother anymore. If I was a Chad, I would only ever go on dates or hookup with Stacies. No other reason to bother with anything else if you are a high-value man.

[–]TriggurWarning 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, female selectivity is a survival mechanism and the engine of evolution itself (men are just the fuel that gets burned in this analogy), but it's one arguably unnecessary (or at least much less so) once humans achieved modern civilizations. But just because something is unnecessary doesn't mean it just goes away and this incredible social experiment we've built can catastrophically collapse for a wide variety of reasons. Actively pulling on strings essential to it's foundation is arguably 'temping fate' at a minimum.

Ancient societies created social taboos to curtail women's more hypergamous nature, because most of the men who have ever lived never reproduced, whereas most women did (roughly 40% vs 80%). Reversing this socially was a prerequisite to extract maximum productivity out of the population and support social structures. It was part of the social compact. Now women think they can ally with high value men, refuse to reproduce sufficient to replace the population, and rely on immigration to sustain the ponzi we've built. All I can say is, good luck with that. Hope I don't live to see my worst fears become realized.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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