In what ways do you practice assertiveness? (STEM pursuers)

theingenuelover · 2020-10-20T07:49:21+00:00

In my opinion, you need to have STRONG boundaries. Don't allow them to mansplain over you. It doesn't matter what you look like, women are disrespected anyway. To be more assertive, when you're interrupted, point that out and tell them "I'm talking". You're a klutz, that's fine. They're just mad. You don't have to prove yourself to those stupid people, just do your job. I've been there. Career wise, I do no take crap from men but I'm still disrespected. It's expected, you just have to do your job and focus on yourself. Don't listen to those men. You're a STEM pursuer! That's literally really hard and you literally proved something by choosing that path. Stay strong❤️

squashmybutternuts · 2020-10-20T10:18:54+00:00

I'm a woman in STEM, I've tried to lean into the "cute and helpless" persona - mostly out of curiosity and because it was genuinely helpful at times to have older male colleagues sharing their knowledge.

Trust me, don't do it unless you like being condescended to. Keep shutting men up when they mansplain you, keep being assertive. Most of my colleagues are fine but for the few annoying ones, I use stares and silences a lot - it's gained me a reputation as "scary" among those colleagues, which is much better than "innocent and girly".

san__404 · 2020-10-20T08:02:16+00:00

We are no first-timers to the blant sexist attitude that is present in STEM field. But your face and personality has no correlation to the brain rot that exists so I'll support that you don't backstab yourself for being a woman and a smart one at that.

You have nothing to prove to anybody, keep working on projects, assignments, keep your scores high and keep networking and your passion alive. Your immediate environment may not support you but your credentials will shine through and take you better places! 💛

Nifteroni-and-Cheese · 2020-10-20T15:16:52+00:00

1) I don’t make friends with people in my field. I have friendly acquaintances, but I don’t let anyone I work or study with into my personal life, I set boundaries and enforce them.

2) I act calm and dispassionate while in a work environment, professional, kind, but unbothered. I don’t talk about myself, I stick to work, I’m not unkind, but I keep things professional. I don’t give people anything to work with except math if they’re talking to me in a work environment.

3) Never ever ever ever date a man in your field ever ever ever.

4) be willing to say things like “well before you interrupted me I was saying...” “I’m talking” “let me just stop you there, I understand this concept, I don’t need it explained to me, so you can get right to the bottom line if there’s a point you want to make” basically, don’t take shit, don’t be rude, the key word is “unbothered”, if a man is waiting your time, don’t be afraid to look bored and tell him that you already know what he’s explaining and it’s time to move on. Don’t be afraid to point out men interrupting you. It will feel mean at first, but they would never treat a male colleague with the disrespect they show women on a daily basis, they’ll get over it.

squashmybutternuts · 2020-10-20T13:26:09+00:00

I have a good friend who is an amazing physician and a brilliant scientist (MD/PhD). She's also your height, looks young, and has a pretty high-pitched voice, and so struggled with this a lot. I don't know her lived experience, but she doesn't take shit from anyone, and is also liked by pretty much everyone. She is always herself and happens to be a kind and thoughtful person. It helps that she already has a very successful research career, and that's she's probably smarter than whomever is giving her shit. When she stands up for herself it's maybe a little bit of a shock but I think earns her more respect. She's one of the most badass women I know.

And in response to NVMs trying to tear her down, I'm sure her response would be "fuck those fuckers" and ignore. But it is a problem, and academic medicine is full of men trying to take awesome women down a peg or two.

Anodynic · 2020-10-20T10:20:13+00:00

do the opposite and risk being targeted by NVMs who can't handle their god complex being torn to shreds?

This. I'm in my third year of Pharmacy in a foreign country and honestly I have to admit I've been really lucky- everyone really is quite kind, I was even nominated as class president last year, I was offered a personal scholarship, given a different one, participated in media representing the University, and have truly felt that professors and classmates alike (men and women) believe in me. It's really been heartwarming. I think since it is a somewhat more female dominated degree it could be why everything has been smooth sailing. Honestly the men have more to prove, they are outnumbered and generally worse performers...

That said as I have experienced it before, it depends on the situation how I react. At previous jobs (hotel, fast food, billing analyst) I acted coy and dumb to have ideal positions (cash register at fast food) or to not be asked to do high risk tasks (billing analyst who also controlled turning security systems on or off through simple excel files, it was bad).

With my studies though I am fiercely passionate and I would never play coy in my career field except perhaps with clients/people whose money matters more than their opinion. If you're interrupted maliciously, "I was speaking." And continue with what you were saying without acknowledging. And if they assume the worst, unless they're your boss or affect your living, just ignore them honestly, let them think what they want. You don't have anything to prove to anyone except yourself and your direct supervisors.

yolosunshine · 2020-10-20T13:39:21+00:00

which means I often get perceived as a klutz and get mansplained [paraphrased]

This is life as a female in a mostly male environment, don’t blame yourself.

I would keep a personal record of every achievement and praise said about you or your work by higher ups as an insurance file. This insurance file will be useful when proving your case positively for promotion, projects you want to work, raises. Don’t worry about it otherwise.

Karthasis11 · 2020-10-20T18:19:19+00:00

Its a balance.

Yes, I try to meme the sweet and sunny girl. NVM don't like to feel threatened by women. Therefore I try to be friendly and warm towards them. Most of them are bitter, because they have shit tons of problems in their lives. Believe me, after some time they open up, and are telling you all their shit.

On the other hand, I am shutting down mansplaining about things I already know and are experienced, in bc I don't like to be bored. But if they are telling me something new, I mostly listen. And yes, I am totally prepared to backstab for my own benefit. And if I am getting interrupted I just keep talking, it took some time to learn that, but most of the time guys shut up, if you are not giving in.

But I try to avoid being too hostile because I can't fight everyone and sadly connections are useful.

Inevitable-Leader-99 · 2020-10-21T01:39:36+00:00

I am a professor at a large research university. I am small and can be very goofy.

And yet, even before I was 30, still in grad school, I discovered that I intimidate people by being rigorous and alert. When I am not convinced, it is known. So I learned to harness the goofiness as a mitigating technique.

In the classroom, it helps to go in order: strict and truthful first, humor once you are in charge. Start Severus Snape, end McDoneagle.

But what helps most against interruptions and mansplaining, I think, has been martial arts: body language and timing. You make yourself seem bigger than you are, in a calm way. It works. I am 55 now, still little and cute, but a NiDan with double tenure who can silence a room of 70 with a pause, a pace, and a gesture.

So I want to tell you to treasure your natural characteristics. Do a sport, discipline the goofy by studying standup -- the world of STEM will listen to your every word.

But do not play dumb fox in science. NASA needs the challenging folks who point out the loose wires, NVM egos be damned. Do not hide your beautiful mind for anyone.

(btw, reddit picked this handle for me randomly, but I'm keeping it for now :)

Knitter-of-Data · 2020-10-20T17:39:07+00:00

I’ve been struck over the years by how different the male female dynamic tends to be in my work world (public health) than other fields in the “STEM” bucket (which I’d argue is inadequate / unhelpful as a taxonomy but that’s another story...).

I worked in a social science academic research setting before defecting over to public health more than 2 decades ago. Since then I’ve worked in local, state, federal, and international public health agencies and settings, and it’s impossible to not notice how consistent the “public health vibe” is across all of those locations and work settings when it comes to gender dynamics.

Colleagues and I have discussed this over the years and tried to figure out how we got so lucky, and the only explanation we’ve ever been able to come up with is that public health is inherently messy, frequently kinda gross (at unpredictable intervals!), the work is collaborative (not competitive) BY DESIGN / definition, the pay is reasonable (but never ever excessive, like there is literally no way to get paid millions to do actual legit public health work, no matter how great you are), and the vast majority of society will NEVER actually care what you do (well... until 2020... thx Covid).

In short, the Dr. Fauci y’all have seen on tv is no joke EXACTLY what he’s like on any given day, it’s what he’s been like his entire career. In other words, while yes he’s awesome and a total badass, in public health land, as far as his personality and approach to his work environment go, there’s nothing remarkable about him (meaning he doesn’t stand out as unusual, which I know both first hand, having worked directly and indirectly with him, and overall, having worked across many agencies].

So our theory is public health seems to be a field that inherently weeds out LVM and NVM very early on. Sure there are a few that sneak though and hang on longer, but honestly they’re so easy to spot that it’s very very easy to get rid of one if he creates problems in your day. I gotta say, from the gender dynamics work environment standpoint, it really is kinda great (or at least it was, once upon a time, before Jan 2017 when the ultimate NVM became our boss... sigh).

Alma00019 · 2020-10-20T18:47:35+00:00

Do what's best for you. Sometimes play dumb fox, sometimes smack them down with assertiveness, based on the situation.

DO NOT let your ego control you. Ask yourself: "In this situation, is it more beneficial to boost my ego and smack this fool down, or is it more beneficial to play dumb fox and get info/help/connections/etc from?" I mean this in life in general, not just academia or work. Keep in mind sometimes it may be more beneficial to play dumb fox, but sometimes it may be more beneficial to be assertive, especially if you can impress someone higher up than you who can boost your career.

Always look for the angle that will ultimately help you most. If you're playing dumb fox, your'e doing so because you're manipulating scrotes, not because you're actually deferring to them. Use their sexism against them.

Solaresa · 2020-10-20T20:37:23+00:00

Hey hey, fellow lady in STEM here.

I am also relatively short and look young for my age. I have found that dressing the part (professional clothing, hair done neatly, subtle but mature makeup) has really helped people to automatically perceive me as more "serious". I also find wearing a more "mature" perfume helps with this. Previously I used to wear more casual, brightly coloured clothes and it's definitely made a difference in people's response to me.

Apart from that, I just do my work. My statistics speak for themselves. When a man mansplains to me I mostly use the bored-out-of-my mind tactic and continue with what I am doing without really paying attention to him. If we are in a situation that doesn't allow this, I smile and nod.

I agree with the below comment about setting boundaries. One of mine is being interrupted - when I am interrupted I will immediately stop talking and wait for the man to finish whatever he interrupted me with. Then I say "anyway, as I was saying..." and continue with exactly what I was saying before, as though he never spoke.

Only_Lime2520 · 2020-10-20T15:32:17+00:00

TBH I'm sometimes torn about this too! Either way it costs mental processing power... but I realize when I play dumb, it reinforces the system rather than challenges it. Someone's gotta start doing this until it becomes a movement ya know...

On an individual level playing dumb is also risky because with no resistance NVMs will persist the behavior, they may also start to test your boundaries on other things and it'll get hella annoying soon.

2020-10-20T09:16:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	In what ways do you practice assertiveness? (STEM pursuers)
Author	squashmybutternuts
Upvotes	94
Comments	19
Date	October 20, 2020 7:11 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/jekj9a/in_what_ways_do_you_practice_assertiveness_stem/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/in-what-ways-do-you-practice-assertiveness-stem.1194181 https://theredarchive.com/post/1194181

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