Is the empathy gap genetic?

MonkeyCartridge · 2024-07-11T03:24:36+00:00

OK one thing I should warn you is not to rely too much on genetics with human behavior. The main human genetic behavior is adaptability. By having a huge neocortex and tons of neuroplasticity, we have more behavioral variability than entire families of animals.

We are basically built so that we can learn things and then wire them up as though they are instinct.

For the most part, genetics mostly bias us one way or the other, or have a few base requirements like socializing.

Here's why I say this:

Yes. We, like most similar animals, have a genetic disposition to be somewhat less empathetic towards males. I can go on about the "cuteness response", but I'll save it for now.

Similarly, Yes. Males have a somewhat higher bias towards things like risk-taking, competition, and hierarchy.

These differences are quite muted compared to our closest relatives.

Here is the important bit: These biases aren't here to force us into some kind of fate. They have simply stuck around just in case we might need them.

If you read up on different pre-agricultural-revolution cultures, especially immediate-return hunter-gatherers, they are aware of some of these tendencies, and plenty of steps for working with/around them.

"Becoming a man" rituals often do more to mitigate fears of not being enough, and thus fears of being abandoned. You have proven yourself. Both to yourself, and your tribe.
They are generally "fiercely egalitarian". Meaning they emphasize team efforts, root for the underdog, and knock a boastful person off their high horse. This is very pronounced in humans.
They do form certain limited hierarchies. This is mostly for teacher/learner relationships, and to delegate tasks. Not so much a vertical hierarchy like you would see in other primates. We are too weak individually. Group cohesion is more important than any internal value judgements.

When hunting, the ones who return with a kill are expected to downplay their success and emphasize someone else's success. Many will throw weapons into a pile before they leave so that nobody can get sole credit or blame for a successful or unsuccessful hunt. For some, they say "it is to keep the heart soft".

Basically, we have a certain biological leaning, in case times get real tough and we need to have a "desperation mode" in our back pocket. But we are also built so that we can socialize it away in peace time.

A lot of issues are related to the fact that our societies have scaled way beyond what we had evolved for. So you don't have as many tight-knit communities where everyone knows each other like the back of their hand. Instead, we have a huge number of interactions with strangers. It basically keeps us in a constant state of "meeting a new tribe" or "meeting a stranger".

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2024-07-11T05:44:31+00:00

My favorite argument against the empathy gap being entirely genetic is that it does not reverse for the middle-aged and elderly, despite the fact that men after 50 can still produce sperm, but women after 50 rarely can have children. That tells me that the empathy gap is at least partially learned and can be unlearned with some effort. Biology plays a part in it, but we can use reason and ethics to overcome it.

Responsible-Wait-427 · 2024-07-11T14:18:31+00:00

No. Gay men care for themselves just fine in their own communities.

NoDecentNicksLeft · 2024-07-11T17:11:45+00:00

I'm not saying there is a connection, but there seems to be a double (two-way) empathy gap between neurodivergent and neurotypical people and, I'm guessing, different kinds of neurodivergence. Many kinds of ND are largely genetic. It is not an accident that out of all their (well, our) social troubles, 'lacking game' and stuff like that, we NDs generally struggle the most with dating. That's probably not just a thematically selective dysfunction that affect romantic relationships, it's probably a broader gender gap with regard to (especially intuitive) understanding. In some cases — anti-social tendencies? — not only the ability to understand is limited but also the willingness.

So if the ND-NT or ND(1)-ND(2) double gap amplifies the gender gap, we do seem to have a huge genetic factor at play.

The next thing is that quite a lot of ND people have a 'justice orientation' that tends to be perceived and described as rigidty, 'black and white' thinking, a tendency towards the objective and the absolute, a low tolerance of nuances, grey areas, situational exceptions, unicorn exceptions, arbitrariness, winging it, making rules up on the spot, inconsistency and bias. There's also a tendency to obsess and hyperfocus. So if that justice orientation meets obsession and hyperfocus and we're dealing with an absolutist, objectivist thinker who is also a non-conformist… they can come up with quite unpopular theories in the field of gender equity and hold up a few mirrors that society doesn't want to look in.

Add PTSD — which is not genetic (unless there is genetic variance in susceptibility, but I don't know) but which is a kind of ND and can inject plenty of bias and error into what's already flawed reasoning because of the stuff discussed in previous paragraphs — and that can lead to some seriously messed-up stuff, like those incel/femcel theories. And we're having plenty of that from both the male and the female sides, the difference being that from the female side it's normalized and accepted and doesn't get called out.

Our problem is that we're giving people mikes instead of pills, a platform instead of a couch, reinforcement instead of therapy, and so on, and of course, a large part of that has genetic underpinnings in the form of elevated individual susceptibility. But the solution would be not to give or up or even get hooked on the genetic angle but to stop normalizing trauma responses, extreme neurodivergence, anti-social crap and so on and start sending people to therapy and making sure therapy (as well as psychiatry and medication) is financially viable for everyone who needs it.

As for female attitudes of superiority, you can't really fix 'egg rarity vs sperm abundance' on a biological level, but it's certainly not beyond the cognitive ability of a civilized modern adult with secondary education to rein that sort of stuff in, similarly to how men can rein in polygamy and women can rein in hypergamy.

I think disdain for men, contrarian and hostile attitudes, in-your-face provocative displays of hatred (veiled calls for help?) and active disrespect (challenge? shit-test? another cry for help/attention?) and stuff like that are learned responses, as is entitlement, exceptionalism, elevated self-esteem and so on. They are often trauma responses and forms of arrested development, and once again, we need to treat traumas, not normalize them or make them our social benchmarks. People affected by them need a thousand one-on-one hours with a therapist, not a social-media account with one thousand (or million) followers where they can duke it out against the opposite sex.

We also need radical misandrist feminists to stop imparting secondary and tertiary PTSD to millions of women, so they feel like hunted prey or like soldiers in a brutal war.

sanitaryinspector · 2024-07-11T08:06:05+00:00

Though is the empathy gap the root cause or the consequence to a cause further up? Like double standards, unequal empathy might be a tool to build a society where men are segregated out of the welfare that's been prioritized to women

I can imagine such a society being carried on even without any empathy for women, just because it sounds right that they are the ones prioritised to receive any welfare.

Illustrious_Bus9486 · 2024-07-11T00:29:57+00:00

Define empathy gap.

WeEatBabies · 2024-07-11T00:06:29+00:00

Do not say stuff like that ever!

"Is it genetic?"

That's hate, have a downvote!

Blauwpetje · 2024-07-11T17:46:09+00:00

I think it’s no doubt genetic. So is the tendency to eat as many calories as possible. Both had their function in the ice age. We should call out gynocentrism and make clear when it happens, but not blame it on some societal conspiracy. Why would society promote it in the first place if there was no innate tendency to it?

Gamer_Bishie · 2024-07-10T22:49:49+00:00

Title	Is the empathy gap genetic?
Author	mohyo324
Upvotes	26
Comments	44
Date	July 10, 2024 8:28 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1e060vd/is_the_empathy_gap_genetic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/is-the-empathy-gap-genetic.1523879 https://theredarchive.com/post/1523879

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