This thread on trollx had me thinking.

YooGeOh · 2019-11-22T10:16:43+00:00

Ask many women how they let a man know they're interested, they say they're friendly and smile a lot because they refuse to make the first move. This is the sign they give. Its then difficult for a man starved of affection to distinguish between rare friendliness and flirting

Blauwpetje · 2019-11-22T11:27:23+00:00

Growing up, I was explicitly taught by women that any contact between myself and the opposite sex was sexual in nature. Any time I made a friend who was a girl, her friends and relatives would aggressively insist on referring to me as her "boyfriend", constantly bombard me/us with sexual questions, and generally go out of their way to make me feel like an outsider who was only there because I wanted to get laid. This started at age 8, and I internalized it to the point where by puberty I had stopped thinking of girls/women as potential friends because I was convinced that they would never believe that I wanted to have a non-romantic, non-sexual relationship with them.

This process of learning "toxic masculinity" from women is, for some reason, considered to be part of "patriarchy".

StoicBoffin · 2019-11-22T12:04:35+00:00

I'm a dude and on several occasions I've had women assume I was flirting with them when I was actually just trying to be polite.

thereslcjg2000 · 2019-11-22T14:29:16+00:00

TrollX is on the border of horrid; just cat-ladies being meaner than mean and egging each other on.

Melthengylf · 2019-11-22T11:06:11+00:00

I believe that the issue that we don't receive friendliness like ever IS part of the issue: someone being nice to us is seen as exceptional. If they are nice to us, that might mean that they like us a lot. The reality is noone like us XD.

bkrugby78 · 2019-11-22T13:00:01+00:00

I’d be careful about using twox as a barometer for what women think.

Edit: changed trollx to twox

Blauwpetje · 2019-11-22T11:37:33+00:00

I once read narcissists are sometimes more successful in sexual relationships, because they really think women who are friendly to them are actually interested in more and act on it. Also, they're not devastated when they get rejected even aggressively, because their ego can hardly be shocked. So, seeing a sexual signal in every nice gesture of a woman, especially when you're inexperienced, may simply be a very useful innate survival skill. I can understand it annoys girls, but on the other hand: girls should realize the world is full of annoying things that are not necessarily a conspiracy against them.

PrincessofPatriarchy · 2019-11-22T16:44:54+00:00

It's been interesting to learn that men are starved of friendliness. I have always tried to be nice to everyone, regardless of gender. Intimacy and affection I could see but just being pleasant to people? That shouldn't be dependent on gender.

I don't think that many guys are oblivious. I'm someone oftentimes seen as flirty. I like harmless/friendly flirting because it's fun and makes people feel good. A lot of my friends could be the same way so it was just normalized to be a little flirty and sweet even when there were no romantic intentions. For the most part the girls and the guys were able to distinguish between harmless flirting and genuine romantic interest without much trouble. And that is even more subtle than the difference between friendliness and flirting.

Plus those that misconstrue it can just be clarified with pretty easily "I'm not interested " "I'm in a relationship" etc. The only time it's a problem is if someone refuses to take no for an answer and starts getting pushy or threatening. Being confused at all is not a bad thing. Some extremists try to act like being asked out at all is harassment when in reality it doesn't have to be a negative experience.

But I think Trollx is such a toxic subreddit in general. It's little more than a hate group.

ur_waifus_prolapse · 2019-11-22T16:57:16+00:00

The reason men have trouble telling what's flirting and what's not isn't because they're dumb, but because it's almost impossible to tell. Womyn expect men to be mind-readers and refuse to admit any fault lies in themselves. Welcome to the dating market, hope you enjoy your stay.

Blauwpetje · 2019-11-22T11:54:19+00:00

In retrospect, I had the opposite several times. A girl was nice to me, sometimes in very explicit words, but I couldn't believe she wanted to be more than just friends, and kept it at that. No doubt then already ('70s, '80s) the whole feminist narrative of 'you must be able to be just friends with women' was highly responsible for that.

ElderApe · 2019-11-23T00:51:50+00:00

I think it is funny we don't talk about the other side of this. I see women all the time fawning over men way out of their league. Some will even try to get his attention so much they will throw themselves at him and he will oblige, fuck them and leave them. Then they turn around and say 'Why doesn't he like me, I feel so used'. Well you just never noticed that they weren't really into you like you want them to be. I tend to think that the pump and dump is like the female equivalent to the friend zone. I think it relates to men and women developing feelings at different times and speeds and being driven by different outcomes. For many men they want sex but don't want to sacrifice being single. For women they like being doted on but don't want to sacrifice being single.

romulusnr · 2019-11-22T19:32:12+00:00

Intimacy to some people means "listen to her" but not "tell her what's on your mind"

LeJacquelope · 2019-11-23T10:11:05+00:00

Meanwhile on r/PurplePillDebate, men are supposed to interpret women's IOIs or else they're "spergy". Can't win either way.

Lobster556 · 2019-11-23T15:55:19+00:00

Funny thing is that men are sometimes portrayed as fools who are too socially clueless to pick up on women's subtle signs of attraction. We are expected to be mind readers in the dating scene.

highmrk · 2019-11-23T00:30:00+00:00

Yeah def. We’re probably the most alienated and alone that we’ve ever been as a species. People are “connected,” but likes on an IG post aren’t genuine communication. And this ties to capitalism along with, of course, technology making easier to not see people IRL

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