Are we Alt-Right or a Centrist Progressive movement?

DaneWhitman · 2016-11-26T20:44:42+00:00

I like to think we're syncretic, or outside of the conventional left-right spectrum. It would be a shame to become an arm of either side, as neither has really done anything to earn it. Individual members can have their sympathies with one side or the other, but the movement should stay nonpartisan.

Kunai118 · 2016-11-26T19:54:06+00:00

We are an equality movement with a focus on men's rights. Its kinda right there in the name lol.

thrway_1000 · 2016-11-26T21:08:29+00:00

We're a non-denominational non-affiliated independent group. The issues are not tied to a political side or specific ideology.

nightcore4ever · 2016-11-26T23:04:43+00:00

I don't see a video of Bannon. Did you put in the wrong link or are you bullshitting on purpose?

Rockbottom503 · 2016-11-26T22:09:29+00:00

If the left would make itself a friend of equality instead of just feminism then the situation would be very different! For me, I couldn't care less. Milo doesn't support the alt right though - milo supports milo; end of! He is a professional provocateur who has helped bring men's issues to the foreground and we should be grateful for that! Personally, I find him very credible - he backs up what he says with research regardless of how controversial to popular opinion. The alt right is not really assosciated with nazis etc.... again this is really media smoke and mirrors! Nazis represent the hard right. Just as Marxist communism and " feminazis " represent the hard left; some political aims align, some do not! Just as the left reinvented itself with 'new labour' my personal hope is that the alt right is simply a reinvention of right wing politics and ideals, not extremist ones.

Mens-Advocate · 2016-11-27T01:47:35+00:00

She can ruin your faith with her casual lies.

Similarly, liberals' casual lies drive independents (like myself) into the arms of the conservatives (who are often tendentious but lie outrightly less often). OP's post contains two whopping lies (which the mods should correct but won't):

No.1. A lie of omission: The alt-right title is apparently claimed by two generally disjoint groups:

The racist alt-right: Richard Spencer's white nationalist and related group(s), not to be confused with anti-Islamist scholar Robert Spencer. Richard Spencer is anti-black and anti-Semitic.
The conservative alt-right: Andrew Breitbart's provocatively conservative group, including his successor Steve Bannon, Joel Barry Pollak, Ben Shapiro, Milo Yiannopoulos, etc. The Breitbart group are provocative but neither racist nor anti-Semitic. (In fact, Breitbart, Pollak, and Shapiro were/are Jewish.)

No.2. A lie of commission: The video OP identifies as Bannon's is in fact Spencer's. [Edit: OP has acknowledged the error as unintentional.] Liberals ruin your faith with their casual lies and defamation. And several famous liberals have identified such casual smears of opponents as racist or sexist as among the reasons for the left's recent losses in the USA at both national and state levels:

Maher: Trump won because of PC liberals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-uNxmNj5o
Sam Harris on why Clinton Lost the White House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JzinSRTwPk

MR, like Euro third parties, can best advance by aligning itself only temporarily with left or right - alliances of convenience only. Nevertheless, just as Euro third parties, MR must speak up in its own interest, carefully. For example, it should note that both Trump and the conservative alt-right have resisted feminist pressures, while Hillary and the left have advanced rabid feminism. It should also note that the conservatives sometimes advance "tradcon" misandry but at a much lower level than the blatant feminist misandry of the left.

TibsKirk · 2016-11-27T04:21:02+00:00

There is no other movement where you'll find traditional conservatives standing next to classical liberals and speaking out. That is a sign of strength, I'd say.

SRSLovesGawker · 2016-11-27T04:58:41+00:00

Liberal here. Last I heard, the bulk of us are. We're a big tent with similar goals in a relatively narrow band of interests, but outside of that band our politics diverge.

Which is fine by me. The stuff we talk about and which needs changing affects us all regardless of our political leanings. Of course, people that would try to find any reason to discredit us will do so by all means necessary, including broad brush smears and guilt by association.

GunOfSod · 2016-11-26T21:09:25+00:00

A-political /eot

throwaway15095 · 2016-11-27T00:11:48+00:00

Honestly, I would ignore it.

It seems to me that the only purpose alt right serves is to call as many people as possible white supremacists. Considering that Gamergate is largely considered an alt right group, and that that has basically nothing to do with race... it's either about mysogyny and generalized harassment, or ethics in journalism, depending on who you ask.

Also, that video you posted is NOT Steve Bannon. It's Richard Spencer.

Steve Bannon is much older, much greyer, and much fatter. he is a member of Trump's administration.

Richard Spencer is not only NOT a member of Trump's team, but has been denounced by Trump since the election.

"President-elect Donald Trump is again distancing himself from the alt-right movement as its white supremacist members claim his election as a boon for their agenda.

“I disavow and condemn them,” Trump said Tuesday during a wide-ranging interview with staff members of The New York Times."

As for being nervous about supporting the same people as white supremiacists?

1: white supremacists are pretty much by definition, politically active. They are active in a political cause, so it's likely that they will vote.

2: in a two party system, they have very few choices of who to vote for.

So some bad people endorsing your candidate in a two party system means basically nothing. Let Trump speak for himself (through actions, words, and appointments). hate him on his own merits if you like, but who Richard Spencer voted for means NOTHING.

Also... side note: the video you cited is absolute bullshit. It also misquotes Richard Spencer and suggests he said "jews aren't actually people". He didn't (well, he didn't in the prepared speech they misquoted... who knows what he has said on other occasions). He actually made a slightly veiled reference to Jews controlling the media by suggesting that various media personalities were golems (Jewish automatons made from clay to serve the Jewish People). The statement was in a videotaped prepared speech, by the way, so there was plenty of refutation available.

Seriously.... CNN... managed to go to a WHITE SUPREMACIST convention, and somehow made the keynote speaker look like the victim. It's such a joke, you probably could have got him to say some horrible things if you had just interviewed him.

omegaphallic · 2016-11-27T01:57:50+00:00

I'm a sex positive leftwing socialist/social democract who has voted NDP (socialist/social democract in every election I've been able to vote in.

Not only do I have contempt for white pride groups (and white shaming), but I've metaphorically butted heads with these idiots.

I'm pro multiculturalism, but in a personal choice competitive context, not musuem piece style multiculturalism.

And I'll tell you why the alt right is gaining influence instead of the left, its that the alt right is willing to listen and isn't plagued by corrupt feminists and SJW, so right now they have the advantage. The left is too busy fucking itself over instead of trying to appeal to men. They'd rather worry about manspreading and priveldge then climate change, unemployeement, stagnate wages, and ending poverty.

I tried to push left wing MRAs towards organizing, but there doesn't seem to be much interest.

There is some evidence I believe that the majority of mensrightreddit is leftwing, but the alt right MRA voices are louder, more organized, and have allies, we have nearly none.

Left wing MRA are social pariahs within the left, often attacked by alt right MRAs as marxists (which is bullshit), poorly organized compares to the alt right, and perhaps demoralized, feel trapped between a rock and a hard place.

Their is an alt left, but in some ways their just as bad as the alt right, just with more leftwing policies. Honestly its lonely and frustrating.

ThePigmanAgain · 2016-11-27T02:33:35+00:00

I don't know what the fuck we are. A mixed bag of deplorables, probably. But these days such a term simply denotes anyone the establishment does not approve of, be they right wingers or left wing anarchists. My impression is that most of us lean right to some extent, while i myself am more of an anti-state socialist type.

smallworries1 · 2016-11-28T15:58:08+00:00

This is something that bothers me too. I'm a non-believing, lgbt friendly, left leaning, Bernie-supporting, liberal. I like the idea of people having the freedom to achieve self actualization, at the same time helping the lagging groups to grow.

Now I have no home. The right today is extremely crass, shallow, anti-intellectual, highly divisive and often racist.

The left? More like fascists. Banning and silencing people. Stifling meaningful discussion. Grossly sexist and downright hateful towards men...

Everytime I see a Milo or Trump post it bothers me a little. But I assume it's a celebration of the manhater on the other side losing despite trying to win vagina votes.

While I wish we had a liberal platform for men's rights because it would be awesome to call feminists out on their shit staying in their stands, i also think MRM as a whole should be independent of political affiliations.

Ascendant-Dickwaffle · 2016-11-29T07:01:29+00:00

The right doesn't give a shit about men.

Frankly a lot of right wing movements are worse than feminism.

The alt right is a natalist movement whose policies they advocate for (traditional gender roles and nuclear families) won't even lead to an increase in white babies. Its also a white trabalist movement, men have a weakness to racial tribalism and this is a massive distraction.

Diaozhatian86 · 2016-11-27T03:02:21+00:00

I think that MRM only addresses men's issues really. It can't be "alt-right", or "centrist" because it doesn't address higher political and economic issues. It just focuses on one major social issue. Yeah, I guess you could call it "progressive" in a way, but that label has been absolutely poisoned by you-know-who.

MenHeal · 2016-11-27T04:40:45+00:00

Why do you want to be part of a group?

Just keep being you, and using facts to form your beliefs, then communicate those beliefs using said facts.

Labelling yourself is a dangerous way of falling into an ideology. Ideologies aren't based on facts. Be a pragmatist if any label at all.

I feel you are overcomplicating it.

Also don't worry about humanity. There is an auto-balancing nature. If something goes too far left, it'll eventually move towards the right. If it goes too far to the right, it'll head to the left again. The pendulum will always swing back to the centre at some point. It is true though that very occasionally huge pain is felt at the extreme swings of the pendulum. However I don't think that will occur this time. Trump is the current antidote to the regressive part of the left. If he goes too far right, then he'll lost the next election, and the left will get in. It's how politics almost always works in democracies.

rg57 · 2016-11-27T06:56:08+00:00

Are we [A] or [B]?

No. MHRM crosses all political movements I'm aware of.

I don't care who shares my opinions. The only thing that matters to me is that I base my opinions on evidence and logic, toward the goals of liberty and equality.

If that means something I say is something that a bunch of racists have also said, then good for them for finally getting at least one thing right.

You have to have a thick skin, and not fall for the guilt-by-association trap.

Edit: removed paragraph wherein I contradicted myself.

I don't think anyone really knows what the alt-right is. As for Spencer's group, for a national group, they can't seem to fill a decent-size conference room. I think these folks have always been around, but are getting TV time now because it suits the Democrats' narrative. You can find similarly disturbing BLM (or worse) videos... but these are all fringe on both sides.

My own politics are scattered all over the place, balancing around left-libertarian.

changingheroes · 2016-11-27T08:12:35+00:00

Still, the fucker is Heiling, and given that he's a prominent member of the Alt-Right, and hell a leader of the White Nationalists Policy Institute, so I think we can rule out any issues of "Is this guy a Nazi?"

Who gives a shit about the guy? He's not in the White House. The mainstream media and feminism lie about their political opponents as a smear campaign because they can't argue based on reason.

xNOM · 2016-11-27T11:47:07+00:00

Who cares. Focus on actual facts about men and boys.

yo-yo-baggins · 2016-11-27T13:02:33+00:00

Alt-Right is a setup. Don't fall for it.

In Europe Alt Right is the shorthand for Neo Nazi and white supremacist groups.

DO NOT allow this, or conservatism to be labeled alt-right. It is a setup.

JakeDC · 2016-11-28T21:11:00+00:00

I am a liberal. To my view, fighting for the equality/rights of men is consistent with, and probably mandated by, classical liberalism. Of course, many "liberals" who are third-wavers/SJWs disagree. But that just goes to show how sick liberalism has become, and how far it has strayed from its foundations.

Lethn · 2016-11-26T19:50:21+00:00

We're not wrapped up in that bullshit in the slightest, I'm an Anarcho-Voluntaryist and a centrist mainly, any time you see people screaming neo-nazi and calling everybody Hitler or a racist it's these retarded anti-capitalists and university students trying to scare people away or shut down the conversation.

Thankfully, I think it's gotten to the point now that people are simply ignoring their accusations, but we need to ignore them as well, stop trying to respond to their bullshit. There maybe something like a couple of hundred neo-nazis who 'could' be Trump supporters and so on, maybe even a thousand however if it's coming from an anti-capitalist SJW you can be guaranteed they're full of shit.

They're trying to scare you, if you really 'have' to respond ask them for fucking proof and even then, if you don't let anybody with genuine neo-nazi or racist views actually take over or do anything you don't have to respond to these shit head's accusations.

They are losing and they are doing the only thing they know how, spreading false accusations about as many people as they can and trying to scare their opponents into submission.

user1492 · 2016-11-27T00:35:15+00:00

How can you consider yourself "liberal" while voting for Bernie?

Anyway, the Men's Rights movement is neither left nor right. It is a single issue that has not been adopted by either side. However, the left has been very averse to the Men's Rights movement.

IvanDagomilov · 2016-11-26T19:50:32+00:00

Personally, I'm what passes the left off the most at the time. An alt-right MGTOW senior cismale usually lights them right up.

zangerinus · 2016-11-27T12:58:47+00:00

About your political views, which writers /philosophers do you agree most?

sayshey · 2016-11-29T15:58:07+00:00

The alt-right is a boogeyman. Ignore the media. You don't have to pigeonhole yourself. We're an equality movement. Equality for black people, white people, members of the KKK, members of black lives matter.

The media is in full panic mode that put everyone who might not have voted for Hilary in a big group, called it the alt-right and then made them the new enemy. You are not guilty by association. Men face real problems and when you discuss the issues of the MRM none of them have anything to do with the alt-right. You're associated with them because you are a misogynist by virtue of being for men's rights. Considering that is their standard on calling someone misogynist you can relax about who else they've associated you with.

Look at the facts, ignore the narratives.

TheCitizenAct · 2016-11-27T02:17:24+00:00

"Point being, I don't want to be associated with Nazi's, Neo Nazi's, or any group that actually "Heil's" at their meetings"

Serious question...do you swallow absolutely everything that's sold to you by the media? If you're going to start indirectly labelling me a white supremacist, with respect, you can **** off.

Find something white supremacist on Breitbart. Do it. You won't.
The group which the media has been so very careful to highlight made no proclamation of an association to the 'alt-right', that was of the media's own doing. Even if they did, are we going to start labelling everyone who is supported by a Nazi a Nazi by default? The Labour Party in the UK (left-wing) has a standing councillor who was the former head of a Neo-Nazi movement; they also have numerous standing councillors who were former members of the white supremacist British National Party. Strangely, the media doesn't make these connections...
Why do you have ZERO problem with black supremacism, or non-white supremacism, peddled by the media? Just today the BBC is running a feature on 'black culture' and 'black heroes' - can you imagine the outrage that would stir if the identity was switched?
The whole thing, top-to-bottom, is about stoking divisions between groups for the purposes of exploiting identity as a proxy for class warfare - when you side with liberals, you side with this plague on humanity. It's ALL moral/cultural relativism; it's all a determination that to judge another's culture is 'ethnocentric.' Of course, if we were to apply that form of morality in the context of Nazism, we'd legitimise their perpetration of the holocaust ('it's their culture...who are we to interfere?!') THAT is the morality you support when you support 'liberals', who hold an unwavering allegiance to the principles of cultural/moral relativism (eg, white = evil, non-white = good; man = evil, woman = good; national = evil, global = good...it's all the prioritisation of identity (equality for women) ahead of principle (equality)).

The same dynamic is prevalent across all of their identities...now they've started manufacturing a 'fake news' narrative, which suggests anything they disagree with in the context of their hated identity (white heterosexual males) is fake, and anything which serves their political interests (eg, the new 'under-class', eg, women, non-white people, non-heterosexual, non-British/American, non-Christian, etc.) is 'real.'

Real news (narrative):

Black culture (multicultural/diverse).
Black heroes (multicultural/diverse).
Women have problems (accentuated/equality).
Homosexuality (oppressed).
Female victim (accentuated/equality).
Male perpetrator (accentuated/oppressor).
Non-white victim (accentuated/oppressed).
White perpetrator (accentuated/oppressor).
Global governance (inevitable).
White privilege (oppressive).
White supremacy (fascist/racist/oppressive).
White violence (fascist/racist/oppressive).
Anti-Christianity (secularism).
Non-white enslavement (oppressive/shameful/all-encompassing).
Ban ‘whiteness’ (multicultural/diverse/liberal)
New bourgeoisie - white heterosexual men - segregation (misogynistic/racist)

Fake news (narrative):

White culture (racism/supremacism/fascism).
White heroes (racism/supremacism/fascism).
Men have problems (omitted/misogyny/satirical).
Heterosexuality (bygone age).
Male victim (who cares?/omitted/justified).
Female perpetrator (‘mental issues/learning disabled/empowered’).
White victim (omitted/justified/any accentuation = ethnocentric/racist).
Non-white perpetrator (oppressed/omitted/any accentuation = ethnocentric/racist).
British/American Nationalism (accentuated/deemed ethnic/racism/fascism/supremacism).
White poverty (omitted).
Black supremacy (omitted/perpetrator = oppressed).
Non-white violence (perpetrator = oppressed).
Anti-Islam (Islamophobia).
White enslavement (non-existent).
Ban ‘blackness’ (racist/ethnocentric)
New under-class - women, non-white people, non-British or non-Christian - segregation (safe space).

They don't actually give a crap about these identities; they just want to exploit them for political gain. They certainly don't stand up for these identities out of the kindness of their hearts, they infantilise and dehumanise them for a reason - political gain.

It's such a massive amount of nonsense, but the way they are they will reduce absolutely EVERY debate down to identity politics; why? Because it's the way they always win, eg, attack by exploiting the very prejudices they claim they oppose and by speaking on behalf of what they deem to be monolithic blocks (eg, all women, 'the female vote', 'the black community', etc.). It is, like feminism, innately reductionist and anti-intellectual...and you swallow it whole.

It's all divisive, it all created Trump, Brexit, The Sweden Democrats, True Finns, UKIP, the resurgence of the Front National, etc.

Then again, seemingly all they need to do to get you to ape their divisive, relativist rhetoric is shame and guilt-trip you, or accentuate the narrative ('evil white men') they deem appropriate, while casually omitting all counter-narratives (black supremacy within BLM, incessant attacks on Trump voters, female violence, etc.) In fact, all they clearly need to do in this instance is associate two entirely independent movements and suddenly you're ready and willing to racially profile and stereotype every white reader of Breitbart.

It's all just language control and progressives really love language control, it's how they enforce their socially acceptable religions on beleaguered populations and make the world conform to their politically correct group think.

Yesterday's religious conservatism is tomorrow's 'diversity', yesterday's segregation is tomorrow's 'safe space', yesterday's free speech is tomorrow's 'far-right populism', yesterday's Marxism is tomorrow's identity politics, yesterday's racism is tomorrow's 'too many white men'/'white privilege', yesterday's female genital mutilation is tomorrow's 'moderate Islam', yesterday's censorship is tomorrow's 'body shaming', yesterday's equality is tomorrow's 'equality for women', yesterday's human rights are tomorrow's minority rights, etc.

Of course, they are masters at branding, too.

Yesterday's communism is tomorrow's Socialism. Yesterday's classical liberalism is tomorrow's liberal. Yesterday's socialism is tomorrow's democratic socialism. Yesterday's democratic socialism is tomorrow's progressivism. Yesterday's Labour is tomorrow's New Labour. Yesterday's far-left is tomorrow's Third Way. Yesterday's National Socialist German Workers Party is tomorrow's right-wing Nazi Party. Yesterday's anti-abolitionist or founding member of the KKK (all Democrats) is tomorrow's 'conservative' (thus placing the blame with Republicans).

The list is endless. It wouldn't bother me so much if the Ministry of Truth didn't control the entirety of the MSM, the Higher Education sector and all of popular culture.

The over-arching aim? Side with the out-group at every available opportunity, stoke up their ethnocentrism and tribalism, and their dependency upon the ever burgeoning state apparatus, and pit them against the resident population for votes and capital.

It's Marxism 101, ie, in-group vs. out-group. They make me sick. I really don't see how you can be in favour of men, and side with these people (they despise white men). I really don't see how you can side with the same people who are today lauding the same ideology (communism) which served as the stomping ground for the emergence of the 'personal is political' and second-wave feminism.

v573v · 2016-11-26T20:21:40+00:00

Is culture a separate thing from race?

Is 'white culture' defined mostly as middle class american culture?

If a non-white person embraces the middle class do they stop being non-white? Are they able to embrace middle class and still keep their racial identity?

American ambition should always be to embrace and maintain a strong middle class it's best for it's well being and if middle class is strongly associated with white culture...

EvilPundit · 2016-11-27T00:46:02+00:00

Don't get so carried away about a joke video. It's just a parody of the way the Left sees Trump supporters - and you're an example of who they are parodying.

Pornography_saves_li · 2016-11-27T04:13:38+00:00

Cuck.

roharareddit · 2016-11-27T13:15:30+00:00

Now, prior to Steve Bannon's famous video I didn't give a shit about these guys outside of the fact that I found it nice they seemed to be arguing with statistical data, rather than emotional appeals like so many members of The Right or Conservative groups.

Steve Bannon is not in this video

UNFORTUNATELY, We have A LOT of connections to these guys

The MRM does not have a "LOT" of connections to white supremacists. Milo Yianopoulos is not a white supremacist and Brietbart is not a NAZI rag.

How did you come to these conclusions watching this video?

Title	Are we Alt-Right or a Centrist Progressive movement?
Author	konous
Upvotes	11
Comments	106
Date	November 26, 2016 7:32 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5f13yq/are_we_altright_or_a_centrist_progressive_movement/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-we-alt-right-or-a-centrist-progressive.936857 https://theredarchive.com/post/936857

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