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[–]P1000123 87 points88 points89 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
I'm trying to convince pregnant mothers not to circumcise their unborn boys, they act like I'm fucking nuts. It's insane. Anyone I talk about this issue can't be bothered but I gotta hear about how about fucking air conditioning is sexist. Fuck this shit.
[–]the_tortfeasor 38 points39 points40 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Just asking someone to research the benefits of circumcision is enough. I was against it and my wife was for it. We did a birthing class when we were expecting our first kid (a girl) and there was one week where we had homework of each researching a different topic. Because we were having a girl, the instructor asked my wife to research circumcision. She basically found that the risks far outweigh the minimal benefits and completely changed her mind.
[–]tube_radio 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
For my son, I read the AAP's technical report on it. They are slightly pro-circ somehow, but I don't see how they managed to come to that conclusion, because reading their own research solidified my opinion that anyone who thinks it is a good idea to routinely do in 21st century USA is absolutely insane.
I feel medical professionals are abdicating their duty to let people do it for reasons as stupid as "I want it to look like his dad's", without reading anything about it, or realizing that "slight" reduction in "rare" penile cancer is actually less than 1 in 100,000, or that you'd have to cut around 900 babies to prevent even one UTI. The biggest reason it still happens is social inertia, and maybe the money the hospitals make off of it.
I'm glad we live in a world where sanitation, antibiotics, and vaccinations exist. It's time medical science abandon stone age rituals and the moral panics that propagate them unless they can come up with some extremely good reasons to perpetuate what would be considered an extreme act in most other cultural contexts.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"I want it to look like his dad's"
As someone who is outside America, do you guys not realise how creepy that sounds?
[–]tube_radio 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Everyone in this thread probably does, but there's a lot of people who rarely leave autopilot mode and just go along with what they think everyone else does without stopping to think about it. I think that is pretty much the only reason we still have this problem in the US.
[–]boxsterguy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They are slightly pro-circ somehow, but I don't see how they managed to come to that conclusion
The AAP is not a public health body. It's a professional organization of pediatricians. As such, their recommendations are at least in part driven by what's good for pediatricians. What's good for pediatricians with circumcision? $400 up front for a 5-minute surgery, plus backend selling the foreskins for research and cosmetics. If the AAP endorses it, then insurance companies will pay for it. That's a pretty strong reason for the AAP to at least endorse not banning circumcision.
[–]AnotherDAM 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The minimum revenue from cutting foreskins in America is 1.1 Billion each year. Keeping in mind that a single foreskin can, in fact, generate 10s or even 100s of pluripotent samples the actual number is likely much, much higher.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9p42hn/company_selling_human_foreskin_for_a_thousand/e7z4pbj/?context=0
[–]AloysiusGramonde 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I am new to this subject. What are the risks other than the knife slipping?
[–]Omz-bomz 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Death in worst case scenario (sepsis), though more common is damage to nerves or other abnormalities with the penis due to the operation.
I usually refer to this every time the subject comes up, though not specifically about male circumcision risks, it has quite a lot of useful information: http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2014/02/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-time-to-confront-the-double-standard/
[–]AloysiusGramonde 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
How common are those injuries with a decent healthcare practitioner? I can't imagine very at all. I'd take the chance to live with the benefits (which may not be applicable outside of Africa).
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
you still loose ~30% of nerve endings, thus you get less pleasure from sex. Also, cant really masturbate w/o lubricant, and few other issues.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's unbelievable the lengths people will go to in order to defend circumcision. I had a guy here the other day, one of the types just hanging around to argue with people like a good boy male ally, and he insisted that since FGM was worse, MGM was somehow OK.
I mean, he legitimately seemed to be under the impression that men only care about circumcision so they can one-up feminists or some stupid shit like that. It's unreal.
[–]P1000123 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly! This is definitely when it's face punching time. Damn if I only had fuck you money I could attend these rallies and face punch these idiots. Then maybe they'd learn.
[–]Blutarg 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Keep fighting the good fight.
[–]P1000123 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I will forever. It's a noble cause.
[–]loganblade14 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Its almost as bad as the his should look like mine bs. Just because your penis was mutilated doesnt mean your sons should be too just so you dont have to have an awkward conversation with your son.
[–]P1000123 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. And they brag about it too. Constant jokes about he's getting snipped!
[–]JadieNL 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I feel like its some anti-vax type thinking.
It's because people are incapable for feeling sympathy for boys in general. They can feel bad for racial reasons but never gender reasons.
[–]Profligate-Prophet 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
When i grew up i had a friend in school and when she was born her junk was so messed up they had a hard time deciding if she was male or female so the parents essentially had to decide for her. They choose female. It was also the 80's so medical technology was different then. The parents raised her as feminine as possible with pink dressess and wallpapered her room pink. Took her to femininizing classess so she can learn to be a lady....
Well lemme tell you she was anything but a girl. Its like HE HAD to actively be the opposite of what they wanted becuase genetically she was really a he. Oh, man, she was a terror on the play ground wrestling every one, playing sports, it was like here parents couldn't make her a girl no matter how hard they tried.
Well she grew up and is a lesbian mechanic now... much perfers overalls to pink dressess. I really think more people need to have someone like that in their lives, they will really learn more about masculinity and femininity and gender raising children than any highbrow ideology concocted.
[–]longhornsniper 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
There is actually a crazy book about this where they cut a boys penis off durring the circumcision and raise him as a girl and the long lasting effects of it. Its called " the boy who was raised a girl" good read if you have the time.
[–]i_Lost_harold_holt 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
didn't he ended up killing himself?
[–]longhornsniper 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
He did. Years later after finding out the truth.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
He was told when he was in his teens, and attempted to go back to being a man and having a family but it was too much for him.
His brother killed himself later too.
That Dr Money should lose his license at minimum.
[–]Admiralthrawnbar 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wait, I heard about this but I thought the doctor had died of old age, he's still alive and practicing?!?! That's fucked up.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh he's deceased, but it seems he continued to practice for some time.
[–]Lord_ThunderCunt 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I think I own that book. Scottish writer?
Edit: The wasp factory?
[–]valleycupcake 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Isn’t it called “As Nature Made Him”?
David Reimer.
Dr Moneys methods of teaching him how to be a girl included simulating sexual positions with his twin brother. It is a very tragic story.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is going to sound strange but I'm glad it worked out for him. There has been precedent of raising your child as the wrong gender having horrendous psychological repercussions.
[–]MiniMan561 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That’s the one situation I’m okay raising a child gender neutral
[–]AloysiusGramonde 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Read about David Rimer
[–]MiniMan561 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course you would let the child choose when they grow up
[–]mgm-survivor 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
❤️
[–]tenchineuro 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bravo, well done, very well done.
[–]Red_Raven 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link
I just looked up some of this dude's stuff. The man is an absolute legend. He puts stuff like this in tons of comics and fires back at blue check marks that get pissy about it.
Edit: So apparently he also makes stuff that's actually bigoted too. God fucking damn it.
[–]polkovniknades2 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Who is this?
[–]Aksu593 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it was called Stonetoss?
[–]Nathan614 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
http://stonetoss.com/
[–]thelordchar 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You’ve got to be careful though, the guy has some really messed up comics. Like holocaust denial messed up.
[–]Red_Raven 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ah. Yeah I kinda thought he may have been making some edgy jokes but I guess not. Damn it.
[–]Sambalbai 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Nah, fuck stonetoss. It's bad enough already that mensrights get compared to alt-right, people like stonetoss just affirm that perception. Dude is an actual hardcore bigot.
[–]p0rnpop 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
The dude does appear to be a legit neo-nazi and some of his comics are definitely wrong. Don't attack the message because of the messenger. Many people with good messages ended up being bad people. It is important to realize they are bad people, but to also realize anyone who attacks the message because of the messenger is just grasping at straws because they hate the message but can't find any better counter.
Let me clarify, when I mentioned people with good messages I mean some of their messages are good. Some are shit. If a murderer tells you to eat healthy and stay hydrated, that's a good message, but the person is still a shitty murderer.
[–]Cheese_Tits-07 -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Stonetoss is a Nazi thou.
Oh shit really?
[–]chambertlo 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Delusion and mental illness is believing that there are more than 2 genders.
[–]dieortin 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You have some scientific reading to do mate...
[–]chambertlo -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
WOWOWOWAAA VERY NICE.
Two good points made in one cartoon.
[–]MayaMordle -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link
Hahaha.
but seriously female genital mutilation is a real issue.
[–]Fuckoff555 89 points90 points91 points 7 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link
Just as male Genital Mutilation
[+]CircleToShoot -51 points-50 points-49 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Why you making it a competition. Jesus.
[–]pierresderriere11 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
The only people making this a competition are opponents of FGM who insist on pointing out how male circumcision isn't as bad as FGM, but then pull the "why you making it a competition" bullshit out as soon as we have to defend the fact that male circumcision is a serious issue.
[+]AloysiusGramonde -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What's the issue? Genuinely interested. I live in Africa and pretty much everyone gets snipped for health reasons. Female circumcision prevents women from enjoying sex.
I'd like to hear your reasons before getting genuinely angry that you compare the two.
[–]WatchingRomeBurn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
The "health reasons" for males are beyond tenuous at best and rely on studies done in third world shitholes that don't understand the concept of soap and clean, running water.
We have soaps. We have condoms. We have the understanding the raping virginal women doesn't cure HIV.
No, the reason it's done is because John Harvey Kellogg (yes, that Kellogg) was a Seventh-day Adventists and, as such, wanted to stop young boys from masturbating. So, when his plan of using breakfast cereal didn't work (and yes, this is a large part of why Corn Flakes were made), he then resorted to advocating for circumcising young boys and applying acid to the clitoris of young women.
So, the entire reason for circumcision is because a cereal maker hated that young boys and girls were doing things that are entirely normal.
The only legitimate health reason for circumcision is in cases of phimosis in adults.
[–]MayaMordle 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
because male genital mutilation is far worse than female genital mutilation if you weighed all the male pounds of flesh next to female pounds. and then compare nerve endings lost. if it were a competition men would win. or lose as it were.
well I guess no matter who "wins" society as a whole loses.
[–]Murgie -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
because male genital mutilation is far worse than female genital mutilation if you weighed all the male pounds of flesh next to female pounds. and then compare nerve endings lost.
Gotta say, that's a pretty foolish metric, mate.
By that reasoning, you could just as easily claim that circumcision is worse than complete emasculation. After all, more pounds of flesh have been lost to circumcision than to the complete removal of the penis and testicles, and therefore more nerve endings have been lost.
[+]CircleToShoot -25 points-24 points-23 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Cry me a river.
We know both suck, it doesn't need to be said both suck. But it's not a competition. This is why people superficially see us as toxic
[–]RaptorsCdwoods 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
“We know both suck” apparently not if the majority of parents still do it.
“It doesn’t need to be said that both suck” we also don’t need to say FGM sucks or MGM sucks we could just say child genital mutilation sucks but we don’t do that and we do the former. That’s why you need to include the other every single time.
“This is why people superficially see us as toxic” no people see us as toxic when select individuals say statements like “cry me a river” when we disagree with something someone says.
[–]p0rnpop 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because one is legal and the other is illegal, yet everyone seems to focus on the one which is already illegal because they internally hate men.
[–]BigLebowskiBot -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You said it, man.
[–]The_Beardy_Man 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Bad bot
[–]B0tRank -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you, The_Beardy_Man, for voting on BigLebowskiBot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. You can view results here.
Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!
[–]BigLebowskiBot -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Huh.
[+]MayaMordle -50 points-49 points-48 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
Yeah of course, if not moreso because it is far more widespread.
but this post is specifically about female genital mutilation.
[–]pasta4u 72 points73 points74 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
This post is actually about Male circumsism. The whole punch line is that they were okay with cutting a boys penis but then when it was possible they would identify as a girl they worried about getting in trouble. Get it ? No one gives a shit about men
[+]MayaMordle -45 points-44 points-43 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Oh yeah I forgot about that. If there is one good thing about not assuming babies genders it is that it will cut down on the amount of circumcisions. that is why I am pro Trans.
[–]tmone 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You've got some problems.
[–]Free_kittens2468 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The fu- being born with gender disphoria is so uncommon that there is no reason to try and avoid gendering babies. When you don't gender them, and they're treated like something their not it may cause gender disphoria too as they'll be treated like they don't have a gender, when their brain is saying they are that gender. An even more important point is that being pro-trans is not the same as avoiding gendering babies. I consider myself pro-transrights, because I believe that people with legitimate medically diagnosed gender disphoria should have the right to transition, and legally, not necessarily medically change their gender. Not medically, because both sexes are different enough that different treatments, and surgeries are required to give proper treatment to each sex.
[–][deleted] 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Nah the dude who makes these comics has a very, very strong focus against male circumcision in his comics and always pushes into light the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance on the subject.
So here it's most likely to show how the reaction changes solely based on the gender of the victim.
[+]MayaMordle -22 points-21 points-20 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
in my opinion if male babies should be circumcised then transfemale babies should still be circumcised if not moreso.
[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean, best case scenario nobody gets mutilated at any point in their life, only people who want bodymods should get bodymods.
but then again people are shit
[–]tmone 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Dude. The fuck? You tried to make the comic about females gm, when that failed you switched the conversation to trans.
Just stop.
[–]MayaMordle -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
the implication being that trans-female babies are genetically male and that circumcising them moreso could only make them more female.
it was a castration joke.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]MayaMordle -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It must be scary for you to live in a world where the phrase "trans-female babies" is less of a joke than "Male Genital Mutilation Survivor".
[–]McFeely_Smackup 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
how did you get the idea this comic is about female genital mutilation?
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
When the martriarchy sends its trolls, it does not send its best. It's sending trolls that have a lot of problems. They're bringing stupidity. They're bringing inanity. They're bringing words devoid of meaning. They're dumb. And some, I assume, are tolerable
[–]MayaMordle 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
God I wish I were a matriarchy troll. then I wouldn't have to feel so stupid for being wrong right now.
clever, though, comparing me to a Mexican as if that could be an insult.
anyway, I just didn't interpret the third cell, but I understand now.
also I read a ton of the stonetoss comics on the website and they're absolutely hilarious.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
merely a repurposed quote
[–]MayaMordle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well you couldn't possibly have chosen a more racist way to call me a cunt.
which is bravo, honestly
[+]MayaMordle -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
"so you just had us circumcise your daughter?"
[–]McFeely_Smackup 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The comic is about circumcision, and the hypocrisy surrounding it.
[+]MayaMordle -12 points-11 points-10 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The only way can truly know what this comic is about is if we ask the person who wrote it exactly what it means.
And I doubt anyone here can do that, so we just have to assume it means what it says.
[–]hyperkron 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
and it is I, MayaMordle, who will decide what this comic is about!
[–]HotDealsInTexas 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yes. That's the joke. Female genital mutilation is almost universally seen as abhorrent in the West and is illegal, while MGM is legal and socially acceptable. The comic is satirizing this double standard.
[+]MayaMordle -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
most people have never even heard of female genital mutilation.
[–]pierresderriere11 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Your skull could stop nukes.
The US Federal Government, EU, UN, etc. have all put in place statutes banning FGM in all forms, even the most minor forms far less severe than male circumcision. Furthermore the topic of FGM is routinely brought up as evidence of how women are oppressed.
Meanwhile male circumcision, which as I mentioned is more severe than some of the forms of FGM which are outright banned, is perfectly legal in western countries, and even defended, often by staunch opponents of FGM.
[–]MayaMordle -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well you won't find me defending it.
I don't give a fuck about FGM. it is banned.
Male circumcision is everywhere and everyone has heard of it.
It is at best pointless and at worst evil.
so you might just be missing my point of view.
[–]pierresderriere7 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I doubt you'll find a single opponent of male circumcision that doesn't think FGM is a real issue.
However the flow of idiots who oppose FGM but insist on belittling the harm of male circumcision as a knee-jerk reaction is endless. Even now people will go as far as defending male circumcision while fiercely opposing FGM.
[–]MayaMordle 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
oh shit. I just realized this original comment of mine strongly implied that male circumcision isn't a real issue. and that wasn't my intention.
why is anyone upvoting that comment then?
[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Brilliant!
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[–]pasta4u 72 points73 points74 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]MayaMordle -45 points-44 points-43 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]tmone 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Free_kittens2468 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 28 points29 points30 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]MayaMordle -22 points-21 points-20 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]tmone 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MayaMordle -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MayaMordle -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 27 points28 points29 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]MayaMordle 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MayaMordle 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]MayaMordle -7 points-6 points-5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 21 points22 points23 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]MayaMordle -12 points-11 points-10 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]hyperkron 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HotDealsInTexas 16 points17 points18 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]MayaMordle -8 points-7 points-6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]pierresderriere11 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MayaMordle -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]pierresderriere7 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MayaMordle 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link