How does one respond to violent MRA posts/arguments?

[deleted] · 2013-05-04T16:09:02+00:00

I host a political forum and occasionally there are posts from those claiming to be MRA members, however the content is essentially anti feminist (or simply...

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Yes threatening rape or physical harm is pretty violent. Any basic search of mra communities will net you tons of posts by self proclaimed mras who are really just women hating/ humanity hating dipshyts. This board tends to support the true meaning behind men's rights and I'm happy to have found it. Regardless I amended the post when considering the possibility that those people weren't true mras as they claimed. I have heard about you from others and apparently you are just an angry man/woman looking for a platform for your hate.

Edit: I had never given much thought to men's rights or women's rights before I came here. So I'm sorry that you don't like my post, but you really seem to have a hard time differentciating between good people seeking knowledge and bad people who seek to undermine your ideals. Good day to you.

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she identifies as a "true" feminist so clearly it isnt necessary to be 100% against feminism.

One can, as MRA, be against feminism while still identifying as a feminist.

For example, we can intellectually realize that favouring some individuals over others is wrong, but still emotionally do so on instinct.

In that context, probably a lot of MRAs have feminist instincts and may identify as feminist based on their predispositions rather than intellectual opinions.

Much as I hate it, even though it's sexist as hell, my instinct probably would still be to have more concern for a female over a male if they were fighting, even if she might've started it. Heck, even if I did know she started it.

So perhaps we could distinguish between emotional feminists and political feminists?

This distinction would be valuable in a lot of fields. A lot of us are not political racists but are still emotional racists. We often recognize biased flaws in our thinking patterns or reactions without ascribing to them.

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Feminism is not the same as someone who is an advocate for "womans rights".

I know that, I said as much 2 hours ago

as you fall further down this rabbit hole, past Christina Hoff Sommers, you have no choice but to discard the feminist label if you still have it.

I think that depends on what meanings one associates with it. I think one can more broadly associate it with a bias of women over men, rather than the bullshit like patriarchy theory or other stuff embedded there.

To understand the things someone like GirlWritesWhat says you cannot possibly honestly defend, to others or yourself, the use of the feminist label to refer to gender equality and egalitarianism.

Where did I say I associated the feminist label with gender equality and egalitarianism? I don't.

I use it for what I think it is: a sexist bias. It's like the bias I have towards hotties over ugly people. Even though intellectually, I realize it is a horrible kind of bigotry, and even though ugly people get my sympathy, emotionally speaking, all other factors equal, I would probably instinctively favour a hotter girl in a conflict. The same with favouring women over men.

This is no political stance, simply a recognition of instinct, thus why I'm saying emo-feminism and not poli-feminism.

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the point of the mens rights movement is not anti feminism

It's not the 'main' point but it becomes a secondary point when we have identified feminism as a contributor to problems for men via compromising their rights.

people go wrong and board the crazy train.

No, opposing feminism doesn't make you crazy. Even MRAs who get slightly off-track and think opposition to feminism is our main purpose (TBH I think this is more common of detractors than of proponents) is not 'crazy', just confused.

Opposition to the KKK would not be the primary purpose of racial equality organizations, but it could take up a large segment of people's time if that was a major barrier towards pursuing racial equality.

Now just imagine a KKK as powerful as feminism is and you'll realize why it comes up so often.

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Regardless, my criticism still stands:

[The statement, "Most MRAs understand feminism better than most feminists understand the MRM"] is a really big statement. One I don't believe seeing as I understand a great deal about the MRM, and yet a lot of MRAs seem to know little to nothing about feminism (especially in light of the kinds of things CrossHook seems to believe about feminism).

Seeing as how there are a lot of different kinds of feminism, suggests that people who say...

"[Feminists believe] men intentionally holding women back, keeping women down, refusing to allow women to achieve, and hogging all the power and glory."

"This is why I didn't become a teacher. Feminists seem intent on driving men out of the profession. Seems to me like they want to control the thoughts of our children. Sick legbeards."

"The feminist, as one would expect, denied that there is any discrimination towards men within western legal systems and concluded that if there is, it is justified because of what men did to women in the past."

...don't know damn thing about feminism, and are just pulling shit out of their collective asses.

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"Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." -- Catherine MacKinnon, feminist lawyer and activist.

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon, feminist lawyer and activist.

"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs." -- Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)

"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." -- Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference." -- Susan Griffin, Rape: The All-American Crime.

"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

"If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them." - David Angier

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins

"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE." -- Marilyn French (her emphasis)

My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter." -- Marilyn French; The Woman's Room.

"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey." -- Marilyn French

"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)

"The media treat male assaults on women like rape, beating, and murder of wives and female lovers, or male incest with children, as individual aberrations...obscuring the fact that all male violence toward women is part of a concerted campaign." -- Marilyn French

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it." -- Barbara Jordan; Former Congresswoman.

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release." -- Germaine Greer.

"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence." -- Judith Levine; Authoress

"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to ****/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.' -- Judith Levine, (explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.)

"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with--husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers." -- Judith Levine, Authoress of My Enemy, My love

"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes rape, foot binding, fellatio, intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, anal intercourse, use and production of pornography, cunnilingus, sexual harassment, and murder." -- Judith Levine; summarizing comment on the WAS document, (A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.)

"All men are good for is ****ing, and running over with a truck". Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.

((Delaney Nickerson, of the American Coalition for ABUSE AWARENESS, refers to the False Memory Syndrome Foundation as "The ****ing Molesters Society". (Miami Herald, April 3, 1995) The ACAA is a lobbying group, which includes Ellen Bass (co-author of THE COURAGE TO HEAL), and Rene Frederickson, leading feminist psychotherapist and strong proponent of repressed memory theory.))

((At the STONE ANGELS satanic ritual abuse conference in Thunder Bay in February, 1995, the following was contained in the handouts at a conference supported financially by the Ontario Government: FMS stands for: FULL OF MOSTLY SHIT; FOR MORE SADISM; FELONS, MURDERERS, SCUMBALLS; FREQUENT MOLESTERS SOCIETY.))

"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do." -- Popular Feminist Graffiti

"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine... What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal.". -- Sylvia Fraser; Journalist

"We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable." -- Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women.

Catharine MacKinnon ( ) maintains that "the private is a sphere of battery, marital rape and women's exploited labor." In this way, privacy and family are reduced to nothing more than aspects of the master plan, which is male domination. Democratic freedoms and the need to keep the state's nose out of our personal affairs are rendered meaningless. The real reason our society cherishes privacy is because men have invented it as an excuse to conceal their criminality. If people still insist that the traditional family is about love and mutual aid--ideals which, admittedly, are sometimes betrayed--they're "hiding from the truth." The family isn't a place where battery and marital rape sometimes happen but where little else apparently does. Sick men don't simply molest their daughters, they operate in league with their wives to "breed" them for that purpose. -- Donna Laframboise; The Princess at the Window; (in a critical explication of the Catharine MacKinnon, Gloria Steinhem et al tenets of misandric belief.)

"If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal--a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students--I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment...of persuading students that women are oppressed" -- Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.

"Men, as a group, tend to be abusive, either verbally, sexually or emotionally. There are always the exceptions, but they are few and far between (I am married to one of them). There are different levels of violence and abuse and individual men buy into this system by varying degrees. But the male power structure always remains intact." Message on FEMISA, responding to a request for arguments that men are unnecessary for a child to grow into mature adulthood.

Another posting on FEMISA: "Considering the nature and pervasiveness of men's violence, I would say that without question, children are better off being raised without the presence of men. Assaults on women and children are mostly perpetrated by men whom they are supposed to love and trust: fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, step-fathers." Both quotes taken from Daphne Patai's excellent critical work, Heterophobia

"At Brandies I discovered Feminism. And I instantly became a convert... writing brilliant papers in my Myths of Patriarchy class, in which I likened my fate as a woman to other victims throughout the ages." -- Heather Hart 7

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Really? prominent feminists in academia? Tell me who they are. Please, impress me with your prowess! I would like to know who these academic feminists you quote are?

"The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." -- Linda Gordon, writer on women's history, served on National Advisory Council for Women during Clinton administration.

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan, political theorist, feminist member of American Women's Movement

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan, political theorist, feminist member of American Women's Movement

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." -- Robin Morgan, political theorist, feminist member of American Women's Movement

From her "The Demon Lover" (NY: Norton & Co., 1989 Morgan doesn't hide her bigotry):

p. 138-9: The phallic malady is epidemic and systemic... each individual male in the patriarchy is aware of his relative power in the scheme of things.... He knows that his actions are supported by the twin pillars of the State of man - the brotherhood ritual of political exigency and the brotherhood ritual of a sexual thrill in dominance. As a devotee of Thanatos, he is one with the practitioner of sado-masochistic "play" between "consenting adults," as he is one with the rapist.
p. 224: My white skin disgusts me. My passport disgusts me. They are the marks of an insufferable privilege bought at the price of others' agony.
p. 229: Sex to this point in my life has been trivial, at best a gesture of tenderness, at worst a chore. I couldn't understand the furor about it.
p. 316: Did she die of the disease called "family" or the disease called "rehabilitation", of poverty or drugs or pornography, of economics or sexual slavery or a broken body?

"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed ****ED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no alternative--for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not your mothers". -- Robin Morgan

"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo." -- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex." -- Valerie Solana, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men.)

"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice." -- Andrea Dworkin

Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin

"To be rapeable, a position that is social, not biological, defines what a woman is." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Q: People think you are very hostile to men. A: I am." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Men use the night to erase us." -- Andrea Dworkin

"The annihilation of a woman's personality, individuality, will, character, is prerequisite to male sexuality." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it 'Her'. Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women

"On the Left, on the Right, in the Middle; Authors, statesmen, thieves; so-called humanists and self-declared fascists; the adventurous and the contemplative, in every realm of male expression and action, violence is experienced and articulated as love and freedom." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women.

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson

"Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson

"Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller; Authoress of Against Our Will p.6

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." -- Sheila Jeffrys

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Oh, sorry about that. I try not to let things go unreplied because it gives the illusion that the trolls made a point. But you're right, it also encourages the trolls to keep it up. I'm not ussually used to people here being interested in actually talking about these issues. I think your goal is admirable, and for that I will try really hard to let these trolls go (this time!). I am sorry for participating in feeding the trolls.

So! I would like to contribute, constructively. Thank you for the good question, it's actually a really important question, IMHO.

In response to your concern about feminism being a "catch all term," I sincerely disagree. There are so many feminists who believe our language is important, that to state that they use the term "willy-nilly" doesn't accurately reflect the actual internal state of feminist discourses. Believe it or not, there are a great many feminists who have questioned whether they ought to still use the term feminism. Feminists of color and queer feminists have been some of the most critical of the term.

However, the discourse within feminism has primarily remained constructive, therefor many of these feminists recognize that the term itself represents the project of feminism, which is constantly changing and improving as the scope of feminism widens to encompass issues that can't simply be described by gender. The tools and definitions which feminists have developed has helped elucidate problems faced by people of color, queer people, "third world" people, etc. Furthermore, there has been productive dialogue in return, where critical race theorists, queer theorists, world-systems theorists and others have helped feminists develop better theory and better activism.

I mean, believe it or not, feminists from within and detractors from without have greatly improved feminism's account of how men can suffer at the hands of patriarchy (not to mention heterosexism, cissexism, racism, imperialism, globalism, and capitalism). Many feminist (most prominent of which are Marxist-feminists) have addressed the ways men are oppressed by capitalism, through unsafe jobs, poor healthcare, and limited access to social support systems. It is because of this that I call myself a feminist. And, that is why I think replacing feminism with something else, a new "term," isn't as productive as it seems like it would be. Feminism has a rich (and sometimes dark) history, but it is through that history that feminism has grown, improved, and expanded, and I'm not willing to throw all those lessons away.

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It seems to me; as an outsider who is not a feminist, that the terminology is what people get hung up on.

This is a realistic point. But the solution isn't to stop using terminology. We need this language to make sense of what we are talking about. We need to understand that when we say "gender," we don't mean "sex," or "gender characteristic," or other terms. We can't simply drop all the words we are using and make up a new language everytime a member of our group gets a bad idea. Rather, we need to learn to talk about these ideas, so that we can make sense of them. So, the answer, at least as I see it, is to increase how much we communicate and how much we educate, so as to solve people's hang ups on language.

Some feminists are zealots.

But that's the thing, feminists from within and towards those without, identify the different kinds of feminism. For example, the kind of feminism which MRAs usually target is a very small group of separatist feminists (which I imagine is what you mean when you say, "feminists who are zealots). As far back as the early 1980s, all other sorts of feminists have been really critical of their gender essentialist and non-intersectionalist. These criticisms cuased a great deal of change within feminism as a movement and as an academic discipline. In this way, we need to remember that this is a part of our history, so as to avoid reproducing the same bad feminism.

This is one of the reasons I think MRAs have it wrong, they cling to gender essentialism, in part because the few "models" of an MRA's have for a movement direction are people like Warren Farrell, who are just as essentialist as the feminists he claims to be opposed to. In fact, if you look at Warren Farrell history as a feminist, it wasn't until modern feminists of the 80s started critiquing his brand of feminism (a very essentialist, second-wave feminism), that he jumped ship and began his career as an anti-feminist.

Feminism is a broad umbrella term..it represents those who wish to do men harm as well as those who seek actual equality.

And that is part of what I try to do. Who ever these feminists are "who wish to do men harm," they are really far and few between. There are so many really good feminists and really good parts of feminist theories. These parts are too valuable to loose in my opinion. Furthermore, it is the fact that these feminsts have succeeded and outnumbered these "bad" feminists, that I can't understand why MRAs (and those from without) want to focus on the outdated (and often just no longer alive) feminists and feminist theorists.

Honestly, I can't think of a single academic feminist who's published in a major journal in the past ten years that has an intent to do men harm. And of those feminists outside academia who do wish to do men harm, they seem nearly as rare, and never in power. Like, I honestly find this kind of rhetoric of "look at these bad feminists" to be so much manufacture on the part of MRAs. Like, honestly who are these evil feminists?

The reality is, there is so much that MRAs, and "equalists" (or whatever name people want to use) who don't know what they are saying about feminism. Furthermore, even if we are to move to a "new name of equality," how are we to decide which parts of feminism to keep? Are we just to discard all of it wholesale? I think these aren't realistic choices, and thus I think (for all the reasons I've stated) that we should keep feminism around.

I would never allign myself with the former so I am not a feminist.

Are you suggesting that to call oneself a feminist, is to implicitly endorse everything ever done in the name or related to feminism? Seriously?

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essentially spammer no matter their ideas

That's bull. People "spam" the AVfM site all the time, pointing out various articles on it. We call this 'plugging' when we approve of the advertisement. I accept that people from that site COULD have spammed it inappropriately here, repeatedly, disrupting this place. I just don't know who specifically did it. Should the site's owners be held accountable for what some readers do? What if it was just trolls or feminists trying to increase mutual hostility between these groups?

People who ascribe to MA/M101 could obviously benefit from reading MR, linking to MR, and having their ideas discussed here. Some on MR may also benefit from the discussion of some of their memes.

Just because MR gets associated with PUAs and the like, communities with some distorted ideas that aren't the majority opinion here, doesn't mean we need to selectively censor them because we fear that association. That's just caving in to the terrorists.

We brag about not supporting opposing viewpoints like feminists, but can't do the same because these guys oppose us in an unsettling way.

We should not have to censor people to prove we don't agree with them, we simply have to voice our disagreements with their materials. It makes sense to ban individual spammers who constantly post the same links, but if people do it now and then, in a constructive way, I really don't get why they can't.

better that those guys are shown the door so we can show evidence that we do not tolerate such groups

Fuck that, we shouldn't be so fucking concerned about convincing people we don't 'tolerate' those we disagree with. Especially since part of the appeal in this place's free speech is that we DO tolerate dissidents to common opinions. 'sides, not that it matters, but we'll get associated with them anyway.

We are letting our concern for women's feels interfere with respecting the rights of these men from being members of our community. If their memes are stupid, they will not survive, they will be mocked. These are people with strong beliefs who I think would be good contributors to conversation.

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If you cant see the difference between Manhood 101 and AVFM and their conduct and views, Im not sure what to say

I see the difference, but that's not the point. I'm not saying Manhood is a better site, just that I'm not clear on why it should be censored if they're not doing doxing shit like Gawk/Jez who do deserve the censorship.

It's conduct that should be the focus anyway, not views. Gawk/Jez are censored for their conduct, not views.

So conduct-wise, what has that site actually done? Redditors posting links to a site isn't something the site itself does. All I can figure is if the site's main articles were calling "hey guys spam our links on MR" or some crap.

I feel it is justified based on, as I said, the conduct and behaviour of the manhood101 crowd. We are in tricky times, the MRM has an image problem as it is and Im sorry to say that measures to preserve the image may have to be taken

That's fucking pathetic, I don't want to be like that. This only damages our reputation. We may as well go and ban all feminists too in that case. If we can engage in discourse with misandrists we can engage in discourse with PUAs. Same principle.

Images should be built through positive reinforcement, confronting bad ideas, not through censoring them. That just allows people to go on thinking they're special, victims, and have a point.

I already hear you typing away that it doesnt matter we should allow anyone to post. But I feel this is a necessary "evil" as it were.

Why the fuck's it necessary tho? I see no fundamental difference between allowing a M101 meme to be said and an M101 link to be posted.

The Manhood crowd can still post here, and they can get downvoted, just not plug their website. You also cant link to SRS, so its really not just their group either.

Are we really equating these guys with SRS though? They can't be THAT bad.

Also we link to places like /r/SRSsucks all the time which in turn links to SRS so it's just one step divided.

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does our net reputation go up or down by banning a link

I think it's a bit different than 'net reputation'. There's different kinds of reputation, based on different principles. There's reputation for being a haven of free speech, and reputation for opposing bigots.

The problem here is that it seems to be seen as necessary to damage our free speech reputation to build a bigot-opposing reputation. It isn't though, because we could oppose them without censoring them, by engaging them. I don't even view censorship as true opposition, it's just sidestepping the problem.

go find out what they say

Then what? Discuss it with them? I'm not confident I'll see all the important problems, the only way to properly confront their problems and systematically analyze them is as a community.

they are more like the stereotypical MRA feminists want to pretend represent the mens rights movement as a whole.

So what's the problem with letting them talk? Stereotypical MRAs are still MRAs. Do we only allow the more PC type MRAs here? I want to argue with some genuine misogynists if that's the case, good opposition results in good discussion.

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Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:

Source Comment	Score	Video Link
spermjack_attack	2	Karen Straughan GirlWritesWhat Presentation at the 2013 NY Libertarian Convention
theskepticalidealist	1	To Justicar, and in memory of Earl
theskepticalidealist	1	None
theskepticalidealist	1	My address to the NY Libertarian Party
theskepticalidealist	1	Is Feminism Hate? Response finally to Russ Lindquist
theskepticalidealist	1	Hi, Danielle, nice to make your acquaintance...
theskepticalidealist	1	Real 'War on Women' - Christina Hoff Sommers

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Title	How does one respond to violent MRA posts/arguments?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	183
Date	May 4, 2013 4:09 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1dolfs/how-does-one-respond-to-violent-mra-postsarguments/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-does-one-respond-to-violent-mra-postsarguments.1611992 https://theredarchive.com/post/1611992

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