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Why Colleges Should Stop Teaching "Toxic Masculinity"

thrway_1000

November 17, 2016
423 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://quillette.com/2016/11/16/why-colleges-should-stop-teaching-toxic-masculinity/
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Post Information
Title Why Colleges Should Stop Teaching "Toxic Masculinity"
Author

thrway_1000

Upvotes 423
Comments 55
Date November 17, 2016 4:59 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5dgvzu/why_colleges_should_stop_teaching_toxic/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-colleges-should-stop-teaching-toxic.937344
https://theredarchive.com/post/937344
Red Pill terms in post
toxic masculinity
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Comments

[–]StuWard[🍰] 40 points41 points42 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Do the teach toxic feminism too?

[–]matthew_lane 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They do, but I think they call it women studies.

[–]mochacola 27 points28 points29 points 9 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I think you meant 'toxic feminine', which is to say all women are born broken until fixed by men, the equivalent of 'ridding toxic masculinity effort'. Feminism is a toxic political ideology, but women aren't born with feminist DNA.

Edit: I'm not saying women are naturally toxic. I'm saying that would be the equivalent of what they are doing to boys. As opposed to just an ideologue they subscribe to.

[–]StuWard[🍰] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The way I think of it is that in both cases it's a learned condition. I don't think being born a man is inherently toxic, not is being born a woman, but both seem to be able to become toxic.

[–]mochacola 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course any kid can learn to behave badly. I don't think kids are born toxic either but that toxic masculinity says boys are, until they learn from feminists to get rid of it. But what this 'toxic masculinity' truly is, is to blame everything back to men. For example, if there are no dv shelter for men because feminist movement hoard all dv relief funds and will deny funds to any shelter that support men, and make it a male-aggression issue when it is not, they'll spin it as 'toxic musculinity' made men think it is not macho to go to shelter so there are no shelters. Or, if male suicide is largely ignored, they'll say it's toxic masculinity that make men not want to express emotions that male suicide rate is higher, that if boys learn to talk like girls, that problem would be solved. Or, if fathers do not get custody, it's because toxic masculinity had prevented a better parent-child relationship that would have made things different, despite it's just laws that encourage moms to use kids to extort money. So, yeah, they are saying boys are born inclined to be toxic until corrected otherwise, not by their parents or adults around them, but only by feminists.

[–]StuWard[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's invented by Toxic Feminists.

[–]iongantas 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think there is generally far too much use of the word toxic.

[–]EarlWaltheof 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's getting voted down because it is out and out misandry. To me when you say "until they learn from feminists to get rid of it" you are telling me masculinity is bad. I don't call masculinity "toxic" because it isn't. Men are men and leave us be. We don't want, need or expect help from women to change us. We want to be the way we are. MGTOW

"So, yeah, they are saying boys are born inclined to be toxic until corrected otherwise, not by their parents or adults around them, but only by feminists." What you are saying is that women (feminists) think they know better how men are supposed to be. That is why your posting is being voted down.

[–]all-round-good-egg 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know why this is being downvoted... apart from the equivalent being "toxic femininity" of course, but this isn't an english class.

Even just the placement of the words "toxic" with "masculinity" so often is sending a message. It wouldn't be acceptable to have a "toxic femininity" thing existing anywhere, even though it's just as valid (ie invalid) a concept.

[–]heimdahl81 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The opposite is called internalized misogyny and is of course painted as something affected women are victimised by through a toxic culture.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Internalized misogyny is caused by men and toxic masculinity. That's the narrative

[–]ThirdTurnip 23 points24 points25 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The woman who sexually harassed me and then falsely accused me of harassing her studied social work, which teaches this crap.

Throughout she was spouting this rubbish. She wasn't just attacking me. She was attacking all men.

"All men ogle my breasts". Very unlikely. Especially not the gay ones.

[–]matthew_lane 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She wasn't just attacking me. She was attacking all men.

That's because she's a collectivist: In her mind you are a stand in for all men & she is the stand in for all women.

[–]thomyorkesforke 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm a licensed graduate social worker and my education was nothing like that. In fact, I took multiple social work and sociology courses that specifically pertained to men and people who identify as male because they tend to have different needs than women. I now practice in a hospital and I treat all persons with dignity and respect regardless of gender or race etc. Don't paint all social workers with the same brush.

[–]ThirdTurnip 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

At this university (a major one in Australia) social work teaches that crap. It's the curriculum.

And they'll soon be teaching it to kids in schools in one state.

[–]thomyorkesforke 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you don't mind me asking, what university? I'd be interested in learning more about their curriculum. My experience in the states was vastly different. What specifically in the program did you object to? Did you ever sit in on the classes or learn about the material?

[–]ThirdTurnip 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The University of Queensland.

I didn't do any social work courses myself.

I was sexually harassed by a woman enrolled in a social work degree and who falsely accused me of sexually harassing her - after she explicitly threatened me by email for refusing to date her and said she could have jumped me any time she wanted to - and was constantly spouting this femiloon rubbish. Men are evil sexual monsters. Constructed realities. Blah blah. I also got it from one staff member in that department.

A fellow psych postgrad (female) told me she did an intro social work course and this was the curriculum and it put her right off. Very anti-male. I've no reason to disbelieve her and certainly plenty of reasons to from all the shit was heaped on me.

No I never sat in the classes or tried to learn the material. Even had I some crazy desire to, I was run out there for the terrible sin of refusing to date a woman.

[–]EarlWaltheof 59 points60 points61 points 9 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

I am so fucking tired of these feminists, feminazies and woman's studies trash constantly trying to change men. Leave us alone. If you don't like men the way they are, fine. Just leave us alone. Men are not out there trying to change the way women are and to tell you the truth I absolutely hate the nature of women. They are conniving, lying, cheating, deceiving, back stabbing, colluding, bitches that pretend to be innocent snowflakes.

If I was in the audience when Michelle Obama was on the Oprah Winfrey Show chanting men should be better, I would have stood up and told her where to get off (how sexist can you get). When Barack Obama was campaigning telling men they have to stop being sexist, I would have stood up and pointed out that women are far more sexist then men have ever been.

Just the fact that women want men to take toxic masculinity courses, is in itself sexist. Do men go around demanding that women who are starting university take a course in consent or dressing like sluts.

[–]Stolles 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Toxic masculinity is one of the ways in which Patriarchy is harmful to men. It is the socially-constructed attitudes that describe the masculine gender role as violent, unemotional, sexually aggressive, and so forth

It is a form of masculinity that is harmful to men, not that ALL of masculinity is toxic masculinity. When my stepfather tells my brother to stop crying like a girl but he lets my sisters cry.

When he's trying to force my brother to help him fix the family car but all he wants to do is play with his friends like my sisters can, when my brother enjoys a Barbie movie like his sisters can but he's afraid to let my stepfather know. When we're swimming in the summer and we all have our swim goggles, they're all the same but random colors, my stepfather won't let my brother use the pink goggles, the kid doesn't care what color they are but he'll make one of the girls switch him.

When my brother is in his boy scout troop and all the other boys are killing tadpoles and wildlife for fun, my brother being a sweet kid, loves animals, he was bullied for saving a single tadpole (who is now a pet frog btw) My brother told the adults but they said "they're over populated anyway" so he did nothing.

My brother was so fucking sad and depressed because "boys will be boys" and apparently violence for them is okay. He was bullied for having hair that is not to his shoulders but longer than the other boys. That is all toxic ways to teach men how to be men. You might say "kids are just mean" but they get these ideas from the adult men in their life who perpetuate it further.

I have stopped my sisters and my mother on several occasions when they repeat the "men shouldn't hit women" and my sisters use it to their advantage.

Dressing revealing shouldn't be an issue unless you do have a personal issue with "sluts" or controlling yourself.

I imagine toxic masculinity to you also won't be seen an issue if your opinion is that men SHOULD be that way. Then there isn't anyone can say to you other than it's damaging to everyone.

[–]EarlWaltheof 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What you think is toxic masculinity has been that way for thousands of years, is still that way now, and will remain so in the future. I personally don't care what you think. Keep it to yourself. Don't try to brow beat everyone else, or push your philosophy on the matter onto others. They did this during the Cultural Revolution and during the rise of Nazi Germany.

[–]Stolles 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tradition doesn't mean it's healthy. You know this right?

[–]raoulk 39 points40 points41 points 9 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

They are conniving, lying, cheating, deceiving, back stabbing, colluding, bitches that pretend to be innocent snowflakes.

That sounds pretty salty dude. There are a lot of bad apples out there, but saying what you are saying is pretty much the opposite side of the coin of calling masculinity toxic. For sure, there are a bunch of shitheads out there, but being so negative about either gender is too salty.

It's worth considering that saying such things might be the reason why mens rights gets such a massive turd for rep. I don't think creating an enemy of all women is a smart move if you want to convince people to take mens rights seriously.

[–]lasciate 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He said that like feminists he has some negative views on the opposite gender but unlike feminists he doesn't try to mandate that they change based on his personal views.

It's unreasonable to expect others to have a completely objective view on a topic. It is reasonable to expect them not to force their subjective views on others or to "make the personal political".

[–]hmlover 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

While you are technically correct, examples are few and far between that do not match up to one or more of the characteristics listed. Particularly those we see in public life.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Except those characteristics are found in men too. Demonizing women is no better than demonizing men. There are terrible people of both sexes and genders.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We men are what we are because we want to be in our formative years what women except from us.

[–]guntermench43 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I like stunning them into silence when they complain about random shit by quoting a radio station where I live: "just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right."

Blows their minds.

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And then Albert Einstein gives you 100 bucks.

[–]guntermench43 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wish.

[–]Warpfrenzy 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just remember you aren't male. You're non binary or an attack helicopter .

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ah, yes. Because the MRM needs to associate itself with a healthy dose of transphobia, just to be safe.

[–]iongantas 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

To be sure "non-binary" and "attack helicopter" are made up imaginary "genders" that rather undermine the case for transsexuals. Much in the way calling everything rape and misogyny makes it difficult to deal with actual rape and misogyny.

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Attack helicopter shit I'll grant you. Identifying as a specific non-human thing is absurd. Saying that you don't feel that your gender matches the two binary options seems normal enough. We're already seen as a hate group, let's not become one.

[–]plural1 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Too late.

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Aaaand people in this sub wonder why it has a reputation for misogyny. Jesus Christ guys, this is the top fucking comment.

Let alone the fact that man up, boys don't cry, men don't get raped, etc. would all be included in Toxic Masculinity.

Edit: Hold up, more sexist than men have ever been? Goddamn. This sub has become a joke.

[–]EarlWaltheof 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

I honestly think you are a bit confused. This is about men's rights. Is it not the right of a man (men's rights) to not have to be indoctrinated, especially by those pushing feminist ideology? Does anyone force feminists to watch "The Red Pill"? No I didn't think so. Asking, requiring, or making men take introductory courses in what feminists call Toxic Masculinity is out and out sexist.

[–]Stolles 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I honestly think you're a bit confused. Is it okay for my stepfather to teach my brother to not "cry like a girl" when he broke his damn toe? Is it okay for my stepfather to force my brother to help him fix the family car while his sisters play with friends because it's what a "man" should know? Is it okay that my brother isn't allowed to be as sensitive or emotional as my sisters because he's a boy?

Feminist or fucking not, men should be taught what a toxic form of masculinity looks like.

He also babies the fuck out of my sisters and calls them princess so yes, there is this on both sides but pretending there isn't one for men is ludicrous.

[–]EarlWaltheof 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Your stepfather is right on both accounts. Your brother has to grow up and toughen up in order to survive in the real world where it's a tough knock being a guy. He has to learn that or be ostracised later in life.

[–]Stolles 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And my sisters don't? Do you believe the term "crying like a girl" is damaging to not just men but women as well? Do you think it's healthy for him to be taught to hold in all emotions instead of being taught to express them in a healthy way?

My stepfathers dad was very abusive towards him as a child. He is always yelling at us and most particularly my brother. He never talks to him father to son or man to man.

[–]EarlWaltheof -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. As a male he has to learn to hold his emotions. He has to learn to be stoic, suck it up, and not start crying at the drop of a hurt feeling. Do you want him to take on the traits that women display; screaming and yelling, shouting obscenities, going hysterical, throwing stuff, becoming vengeful? In one instance, in which I have experience, at a high level meeting around a board table. We accept that from women (and I've seen gay men do it), but we would never accept it from a man. She was calmed down, but a man would have been fired.

Don't worry, I have family too. My mother is a terrible person who I rarely see anymore, and this has rubbed off on my sisters, who I do everything to avoid. Let me tell you something I learned from my mother years after this happened. One of my sisters invited two guys over for the sole purpose of having sex. After they left she spread blood around the house, trashed the place and filed rape charges. They were arrested, charged, tried and found guilty. Both served five years in prison. Why, because she had broken up with her boyfriend a few weeks previously.

[–]Stolles 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. As a male he has to learn to hold his emotions. He has to learn to be stoic, suck it up, and not start crying at the drop of a hurt feeling.

Um what? This is why men get depressed, are less likely to ask for help, are homeless and commit suicide. Because of the belief that they should be emotionless and not be able to ask for help.

My brother broke his toe by running into a steel dolly, it wasn't because his feelings were hurt, even so. He's allowed to be sad or even cry if he feels his father is abusive, doesn't love him etc etc.

Do you want him to take on the traits that women display; screaming and yelling, shouting obscenities, going hysterical, throwing stuff, becoming vengeful?

No and this is why he shouldn't let my sisters get away with the stuff my brother can't. This is why it's important to promote displaying emotions in a healthy way not screaming OR holding it in.

Don't worry, I have family too. My mother is a terrible person who I rarely see anymore, and this has rubbed off on my sisters, who I do everything to avoid. Let me tell you something I learned from my mother years after this happened. One of my sisters invited two guys over for the sole purpose of having sex. After they left she spread blood around the house, trashed the place and filed rape charges. They were arrested, charged, tried and found guilty. Both served five years in prison. Why, because she had broken up with her boyfriend a few weeks previously.

That means nothing to anything we're talking about, you're clearly just being misogynistic now.

Your story makes no sense anyway.

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Where on earth is this required?

[–]EarlWaltheof 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Now (read the main article) at several higher learning institutions in the US, one or two in the UK, and at least one high school in the US. In Canada you will find that students are expected, as part of acceptance to a university, to prepare written submissions on topics such as women's issues. It is also heavily pushed in many classes in high schools, taught by feminists, outside of the required curriculum. How is this done in high schools? By requiring students to write essays or make formal presentations on things like gender differences, women's rights, and feminism.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ManInAFunnyRedSheet 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

disagreed with toxic masculinity on /r/mensrights

got banned

I don't understand.

[–]Unconfidence 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Likely he was banned for being an ass but is blaming it on his ideology because that is easier to swallow.

[–]FRedington1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Repeal the 19th.

[–]haplogreenleaf 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism says that any outward display of femininity is beyond reproach. So, no slut shaming, no fat shaming, no calling out women for bad behavior. But you'd better listen to what women say a man should be like.

[–]the_gr33n_bastard 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good read!

[–]Whisper 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop trying to reason with these people.

[–]quackquackoopz 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because it's fucking vile bigotry one step further than original sin.

[–]Tmomp 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Instead, teach The Myth Of Male Power, Girl Writes What, and the rest of our sidebar!

[+]bashar_speaks -8 points-7 points-6 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ignorance begetting more ignorance. The guy writing the article completely misinterprets what the concept of "toxic masculinity" actually means. Yet the actual concept is kind of ignorant in its own right too. But whatever... circlejerk away.

[–]wisty 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The guy writing the article completely misinterprets what the concept of "toxic masculinity" actually means

It's a deliberately ambiguous term. Obviously not all masculinity is toxic, just the bad parts. But binding a movement together with "We all agree we hate some aspects of men" is kind of a hate movement at worst, and a clusterfuck that is unable to achieve anything due to infighting and confusion at best.

[–]EricAllonde 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The guy writing the article

LOL, a woman wrote the article. She's an ex-feminist and ex-SJW too!

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