As long as everything is consensual, people cannot be objectified.

gymbro718nyc2 · 2023-01-06T00:16:55+00:00

I do understand your view, but will supply an alternative view as food for thought.

As someone who did study pick up tactics, I do have to say that the majority of what was out there on the market in the early and mid 2000s was completely misguided and dare I say manipulative. The issue is that all the advise came from the world view of men VS women. Women are the enemy, they are the other and we need to lie and manipulate in order to extract sex from them. And if not exactly lie, at least misrepresent ourselves as better than we are in order to extract sex.

It never occurred to those pickup artists that seduction is actually allowing the woman to do what she wanted to do in the first place (sleep with you). I think that the smart PUAs eventually figured that out and they started focusing y on helping men become more honest and confident (think Mark Manson, David X, Johnny Soporno, Dr. Robert Glover), because honesty and confidence and a sense of being okay as you are, are ultimate much more powerful than any neg, push pull, take away or DHV you can do.

So when women speak against objectification, they are speaking out against guys who view them as targets that they have to attack at a certain angle in order to extract their ultimate reward from AND not like human beings who ultimately want to get laid as much as the guy does, but as long as the guy is cool, self accepting and respecting and respects her. As a person.

AnUnstableNucleus · 2023-01-06T00:20:11+00:00

Isn't objectification presumed to be non-consenting?

Maffioze · 2023-01-06T01:26:00+00:00

Of course people can be objectified regardless of consent. To objectify is to see someone as an object or accessory: a man or a woman is only valued for their looks and what they do for you: how they make you feel, how they make other's perceive you. You don't care about their opinions or who they are as a person.

To value someone for who they are as a person is to not objectify them. So, to care about their feelings, wants, needs, and perspective. To respect their needs, wants, and perspective. To empathize with them. You can do this and value them for their looks/what they do for you. But if you only value them as an accessory to your life/for only external qualities/for only what they do for you, you are objectifying said person.

They're like a chair. You don't care what a chair wants, needs or feels. It exists to look good to you and be useful. Once it's no longer useful it will be thrown away without a second thought.

That being said, people can be ok with being objectified. Strippers, porn stars, and trophy wives are consenting to be objectified, for example. Their consent doesn't make people objectify them any less.

Objectification of person X has to do with how person Y views person X. That's all.

Blame_the_Muse · 2023-01-05T23:51:06+00:00

You're misunderstanding what people mean by "objectification". Anyway, feminists are obviously not complaining about consensual objectification. They're complaining about objectification that the woman didn't consent to

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-01-06T04:39:37+00:00

It's a stupid concept, just forget about it.

You can't tell an atheist "you know devil worshipping is actually not always bad".

He doesn't care, he doesn't believe in the devil.

Why do you try to fit concepts from a religion you don't believe in to your life?

Sane people don't believe in people being objectified because the concept is stupid.

Of course people want attractive partners, of course girls try to look attractive, and of course guys will want them because of it. If you want a framework for why this happens then I like evolution, but the whole concept of objectification hides stupid false assumptions and borderline misandry.

It's only in gender studies, feminist columns and online where you see that bullshit. No girl I know would know what that even means beyond "Sometimes guys stare too much and it feels weird" - and it feels weird not because he objectifies her, it feels weird because she's unattracted and if he tries something she needs a way out.

obviousredflag · 2023-01-06T09:34:01+00:00

Objectification is part of a heuristic approach in everything. We cannot always consider every human we interact with in all their dimensions. When i enter the cinema, i objectify the person who rips off the end of my ticket as just that process, with an exchange of "enjoy the movie" -"thanks" at the end. I don't consider their feelings, their dreams, their whole complexity as a human being, because it doesn't matter for the kind of interaction we have.

When i walk past an attractive women, all that is relevant to our "interaction" might be that i see her physical beauty and i might mention that to the person i am walking with. If she stops and talks to me about anything, the scope of what is relevant in our interaction widens and more than her physical beauty becomes relevant, or maybe the physical part becomes irrelevant again and i focus on our shared love of the park we happen to walk in.

Watching porn is objectification of the actors, because everything else is irrelevant and also not knowable. That is not a bad thing. It doesn't mean i would objectify that same person when she was in a group therapy setting with me.

If you choose to reply to me, you are objectifying me. You are not considering me as a whole person. You treat me as "the argument" i make and use me as an object to discuss with or punching bag.

The surgeon who comes in in the ER to work on my broken leg and leaves before i wake up is objectifying me, i am just a broken leg for her, and i am fucking glad she is doing that and not thinking about if that broken leg will negatively influence my life and how painful it must have been, distracting her from the job.

MajesticPenisMan · 2023-01-06T17:56:41+00:00

Lol did this person delete their entire account after this?

gate18 · 2023-01-06T11:10:36+00:00

Men can be objectified as well, so why did you make it against men?

Even as you have sex you can objectify that person. Examples from the top of my head: You can ride him but not kiss him, refuse to go down on him, use him as a blow-up doll and leave.

If you then say that Bob was lucky and shouldn't feel objectified you are removing Bob's humanity, his personality, preferences, and individuality. "You had sex and she left first? you lucky dog, stop whining. You got what [an object like you] deserves, I should be so lucky, all the women I hook with want to cuddle after"

Bob: "but I would have liked to cuddle"

Nah, dude, trust me, alphas don't do cuddles, you're an alpha, right, Bob?

Bob: "of course, I'm an alpha but I've never felt so used"

Tom, from the gym, he does everything right and bitches never give him a chance, you Bob got a woman have sex with you and you didn't need to tell her to fuck off, that's the dream bro. Every research paper tell us men like sex for the sex. You're a man, aren't you Bob?

Bob: "I still felt objectified"

Stop that woke bullshit right now.

RegularDue9718 · 2023-01-06T01:46:34+00:00

Women like being objectified but also like complaining about it. They do it to themselves then complain when guys look

despisedlove2 · 2023-01-06T03:07:43+00:00

Objectification will exist as long as humans fantasize about their ideal. Both men and women objectify, in different ways. Your "consent" is immaterial and an attempt to insist on it is thought policing.

People who object to objectification usually are pissed off one-trick ponies who know that no one will ever fantasize about them, and they hunger after social validation through expression of cooked up outrage. Things like "body positivity" (also known as "I have the right to have a heart attack, you should masturbate to how much of an ugly blubbery seal I look like, and when I fall ill, your taxes should pay for my recovery."), come from the same pathology.

As an ugly man, the teenage boy that I was would have loved to be objectified by my female classmates. Since I was fortunate enough to be born a man, in better times before feeding private delusions of others became a social virtue, I was allowed to learn the necessary lessons that helped me grow successful by focusing on things that built my strength in every way I could. Hard work, often exceeding 18 hours a day, regular gym that built my tough body, strong analytical abilities, and capacity to silently observe myself and others, and self correct when necessary, made me successful beyond my wildest dreams.

I am just thankful that no one was teaching me this "objectification" garbage.

DisasterPeace7 · 2023-01-06T04:11:11+00:00

However, stemming from that is chatter on how "men just want women as objects". And how men need to stop "treating women like an object" or a "warm hole".

A lot of that kind of rhetoric comes from feminists, and like I said on here before men should not be taking that tribe of people seriously, they hate men lol

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West-Ad-9697 · 2023-01-06T11:03:58+00:00

The truth is, this is a huge misinterpretation of "objectification". The point of an object is that it cannot consent nor refuse anything. It exists as a thing. It does not have opinions about others or what others do to it.

This occurs because women that talk about objectification have not been objectified and do not know how men actually work.

When you are horny, when you are in that state of thinking of your partner as a warm hole - you aren't thinking of inanimate holes. Arguably you can't even get that cognitively stimulated with your own hand or a fleshlight. That peak arousal when your model of the world gets warped is leaning into the magnetism your partner (necessarily human partner) radiates, it is self abandonment, it's a act of weakness and surrender in relation to your partner.

If you enjoy the odd S/M, you should know that restraint, resistance of that lusty abandonment is an act of dominance. Breaking a partners socialized polite demeanor through lust is the aggressive act, the dominant/domineering act.

And this is just from the male perspective. It's the job of a lady or bottom to showcase the opposite view: how being an object, how objectifying yourself, how being viewed with a male gaze is a source of power, it fuels you, it shows your power over that objectifier.

This is just another issue with really vanilla and inexperienced women and men making up sex theory based on their fears and biases.

toasterchild · 2023-01-06T18:25:05+00:00

If consent and objectification were the same thing then they would have the same definitions, but they do not because they are different.

You can objectify someone and still get their consent. Sometimes you objectify them openly and they are ok with it. Sometimes you objectify them openly and they don't even see it and think you are more caring than you really are. Many times you hide it and they think they are getting one thing but really getting another. In the end if you don't want to potentially go to jail consent matters no matter what you think about the other person.

All rapists objectify their targets, not all people who objectify others cross the boundaries into becoming rapists. Thank goodness.

Title	As long as everything is consensual, people cannot be objectified.
Author	Repulsive-Cupcake505
Upvotes	12
Comments	51
Date	January 5, 2023 11:37 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/104e4aw/as_long_as_everything_is_consensual_people_cannot/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/as-long-as-everything-is-consensual-people-cannot.1146866 https://theredarchive.com/post/1146866

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