Beauty's objectivity.

EvilBananaManRD · 2018-05-17T08:53:03+00:00

Beauty is not subjective. Once you make it into the, let's say, 5% of best-looking people on the planet, then people have preferences. But you need to get into that 1/20 slot first, and the standards for that are universal and cross-cultural.

Hooked nose vs uptilted nose.

Broad hips and narrow shoulders for women, narrow hips and broad shoulders for men

Well-proportioned and well-defined jaws vs bad jaws

Good hair vs baldness

For example, I just posted this 1890s propaganda poster where they state what traits make a man look strong, attractive, powerful, competent and what traits don't. The standards are identical to the ones we use today for "warrior vs wimp" or "virgin vs Chad".

Entropy-7 · 2018-05-17T11:29:43+00:00

There are certain cultural aspects. In poor times/countries chubby chicks are considered a good thing because it speaks of abundance and social status. In rich countries, being thin is in because it speaks of restraint and discipline.

The only universal I know of is the 0.7 waist to hip ratio. A similar bust-to-waist ratio is probably common if not universal. Others that stand out because they are uncommon, but may or may not be universal standards of beauty are curly blonde hair and blue or green eyes.

Several web sites show differences in beauty standards across time and across countries such as here and here.

This web page supports a lot of what I have written elsewhere about ideals and how BMI is nonsense.

The ideal man according to women has a BMI of 24.5, right at the top end of what experts say is "normal". The ideal according to men is a BMI of about 26, which is considered overweight.

For women, the ideal was BMI 19, which is totally in line with my view given my wife and two previous girlfriends, but that is considered borderline anorexic.

Christina Hendricks is a standout with a BMI of 25 but her measurements are reportedly 42-30-39, or a 0.77 WHR and 0.71 WBR

Edit: and interestingly, hungry guys like chubbier girls; rich guys prefer thinner girls.

Eartherry · 2018-05-17T08:29:20+00:00

Goodness no. There are societies that exist today where it's attractive for women to be obese. In south American countries it's all about comically large breasts and butts, too big to be normal in the US.
Not at all. Before industrialization if a woman was thin and had a tan it meant she was malnourished and too poor to not have to work. Royals were well-fed and stayed indoors so the women were plump, unless they were sickly, and very pale. They were attractive because they were considerably healthier. Poor french women would use lead powder to lighten their skin and even draw on veins to look even paler. You won't see any of that these days!

celincelin · 2018-05-17T08:02:14+00:00

Of course beauty is objective, but tastes vary somewhat, since genetic diversity is important.

So, what is approaching 10/10 now, here would be approaching 10/10 anytime, anywhere.

And there is no “hard 10” in reality.

reluctantly_red · 2018-05-17T14:32:54+00:00

There's some truth to this. Most guys today may not like fat women -- regardless, if asked to rate a group of fatties they'll most likely agree which is the prettiest fatty.

efficientelf · 2018-05-17T07:57:53+00:00

evo-psych (e.g., large firm breasts are true/unfakeable indicators of youth/fertility)

I read somewhere that boobs are essentially just a western world fetish (non existent in other cultures). I remember some video with African people laughing upon learning that because they though 'white men are like babies they like milk'.

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[deleted] · 2018-05-17T09:11:32+00:00

I'm not trying to be a jerk I swear. But the following is more accurate, IMHO.

Beauty is not objective. It never was, and never will be.

Breast size nor firmness are accurate indicators of youth/fertility.

Taking the mean/median of subjective beauty does not make the mean/median objective (i.e. those scientific/mathematical ratios you talk about).

Those sites/subs again, only serve to provide a larger sample size that increases the accuracy of the mean/median, which as stated before are not objective.

Let me answer your actual questions lol, assuming I agree with your statements:

1) No. Like other comments, different geographic regions (I'll assume countries) have different "beauty ideals" (again, not objective, but rather the mean/median of subjective views on beauty). Wasn't there that study where they photoshopped the same person as per each countries' ideals?

2) No. Every animal evolves physically too. Wasn't there that study where they said average boob size has gone up or something? Something crazy like from a 34B to a 34DD in just 20 years. Surely looking at paintings/photos one can also notice changes in body shapes etc.

abaxeron · 2018-05-17T13:20:00+00:00

I can't believe OP hasn't seen the famous TL;DR's research stream.

says_harsh_things · 2018-05-17T14:51:04+00:00

Look at Hollywood. They try to pick actors that appeal to the largest audience they can. They all tend to look the same and mirror the physical ideals of the world over.

Title	Beauty's objectivity.
Author	TechSupport1990
Upvotes	1
Comments	82
Date	May 17, 2018 7:42 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8k2gqs/beautys_objectivity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/beautys-objectivity.262398 https://theredarchive.com/post/262398

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