CMV: It's all about choice.

TheChemist158 · 2015-04-01T21:46:35+00:00

Relationships, sex and the rituals associated are of supreme importance to both men and women.

I've actually never had much of a draw for the opposite sex (or same for that matter). There's more exciting things in life, though a SO can be a nice addition to it. But I'll agree it is important to a lot of people.

The modern incarnations of these movements are built predominantly on mate choice.

Some yes, some no. Sometimes it plays a role, but really TRP seems to be the only movement that is based around finding a partner (and PUA too I guess). MGTOW is about building a life without a mate, MRM is about criticizing aspects of legal systems and cultures where males are disadvantage (let's be real, it mostly about bitching about feminism). And feminism is a conglomerate of various women-centric beliefs and movements that are loosely connected and often opposed to each other.

It's no surprise that everyone wants to date up

I've never liked that view of things. It implies that in the world of dating, people can be put in a ladder. I don't want to date up, I want to date a guy who makes me happy. My boyfriends attitude, behavior, and humor could make him simply undate-able to another woman of similar standing to myself. But we get along well so he is great boyfriend material to me.

Also let's look at the most recanted feminist issues: cat calling, consent, slut shaming. All of which are related to screening out sexual attention for the correct attention.

There's a lot of other popular feminist issues that are clearly not related to partners. Wage gap, cheap daycare, women in STEM, abortion. And I'd argue that cat calling and consent isn't about getting a partner. Now, just to make it clear, I don't identify as a feminist, nor do I think either of these things are serious issues (rape is obvious bad, but I don't agree with some of the views on consent they are hold). But both of these issues are simply about being treated with respect and not being attacked or feelings threatened.

Preserving the choice to walk alone at night to your favorite bar, have the perfect man introduce himself to you in just the right way before taking you to his place perfectly sober and respecting your boundaries

Is this to say that they are trying to force men, insteading of raping/cat calling women, to be the perfect man in this story? I'd imagine they'd be more concerned about telling men what to do, rather than simply what makes them feel uncomfortable.

It all comes down to this. We all want the power to choose how our sex lives flow.

I'll agree there. Most people want control over all aspects of their life. It's just being human. But the concern isn't just about control over our love life. MGTOW want control over their personal life and fear a woman will take that away. MRAs want control over how they are treated by the legal system and how they are viewed by society. Various parts of feminism want control over various things (career, personal affairs, bodial choices, and yes, their sex life).

ECoast_Man · 2015-04-01T20:25:10+00:00

I'm not sure what your point is?

I agree that is 'about choice'. The point made is that what constitutes 'marrying up' is different for the genders. Is that controversial or what do you mean?

taiboworks · 2015-04-01T18:28:19+00:00

the problem is red pillers desired level of choice involves women having less to no choice. increasing female choice to where women actually can support themself in society and don't have to marry for money/security or mate with the tribe chieftain for security is considered a bad thing by many red pillers. modern relationships are less secure than in the past when practical considerations dominated and women had less options but they are less likely to be sham relationships which red pillers claim they don't want. red pill should love the idea of a female who isn't trapped in a relationship, because then they know someone is with them out of genuine interest vs. needs to be in the relationship for security reasons. and if someone leaves them, they can be happy they are free of someone that doesn't want to be with them anymore, that in the past would have stuck around anyway because they had to. female liberation liberates men from being used by women for security needs.

Will_Im_Not · 2015-04-01T18:33:27+00:00

let's look at the most recanted feminist issues: cat calling, consent, slut shaming.

I wouldn't say those issues have been recanted, they're still very much a current topic of discussion. That 10 hours in NYC video was just 6 months ago.

Larry-Man · 2015-04-01T19:42:46+00:00

Here's what I don't get as someone who subs to both twox and row: both groups spend an inordinate amount of time pitying the other. TRP has lots of issues with agency but straight up RPW and twox only differ on the kinds of relationships that they value. There is nothing inherently wrong with their viewpoints and by subbing both groups I have a much stronger understanding of what it means for me to be a woman as well as realising that 90% of the advice in the subs is similar if not the same and that there is way more shared experience than not. These women just deal with problems differently and I have a great respect for both groups.

Ultramegasaurus · 2015-04-01T20:41:31+00:00

It all comes down to this. We all want the power to choose how our sex lives flow. Any amount of power taken away from us scares us.

Men are in need of more power in that regard. I think it's morally justifiable to either take away women's significant headstart on the sexual market or to grant men the same.

ShitfacedBatman · 2015-04-01T19:57:47+00:00

It's manthers versus cougars, OP.

Title	CMV: It's all about choice.
Author	whystoppnow
Upvotes	10
Comments	59
Date	April 1, 2015 5:56 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3133nv/cmv_its_all_about_choice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-its-all-about-choice.282898 https://theredarchive.com/post/282898

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