[Question for Blue Pill] Why do self-esteem issues in women seem to affect sexual choice but not partner choice?

am_thro_way · 2015-12-16T13:11:02+00:00

Isn't it kind of a problem of circular definitions? The way Red Pillers usually measure attractiveness is by a) how fast a woman has sex with a man after meeting him and b) how kinky she is willing to be with him. So by definition a man is attractive if a woman participates in kinky sex with him.

wub1234 · 2015-12-16T12:08:50+00:00

Okay, firstly your entire premise is based on selective anecdotal evidence and is certainly not broadly applicable. But let's accept it for the sake of argument.

Why does bad self-esteem never translate to lower standards when it comes to choosing which man's approach to welcome? Why does low self-esteem cause promiscuity, but only with high status males?

Women seek such sex and agree to such sex because they seek male validation, just as men sleep around because they want female validation. When they actually perform those sexual acts, they find that they don't feel validated, they feel degraded. Hence they don't do them again in the future. Those that don't feel degraded will do them again in the future.

dota2nub · 2015-12-16T12:04:20+00:00

Your premises are busted. The only women I know who did degrading kinky shit they hated did it with losers, not alphas. I'm talking nasty looking drug addicts with controlling behaviours. Not sexy male model chads.

My experience therefore fits right in with the narrative.

damaskrose · 2015-12-16T19:45:54+00:00

Oh, self-esteem definitely affects partner choice. I've had long-term relationships with men who I never would have even remotely considered, if my self-esteem had been where it is today. At least one of them would have fallen into the "neckbeard" category. Whenever you see a post on r/relationships like "my boyfriend has the hygiene of a barnyard animal"? Or, "My boyfriend acts like he hates me, what should I do?" Yeah, that's low self-esteem.

Women with low self-esteem settle in relationships because they feel like they can't do any better; it's a well-documented phenomenon.

wtknight · 2015-12-16T13:31:11+00:00

I think it's more of a "sexual experimentation phase" for women than it is an AF/BB thing. I had women have kinky sex with me when they were young not because I am alpha (I'm not), but just because they were young, inexperienced and didn't mind trying new stuff out. Eventually I think many women just get bored with sexual adventure and want to settle down and it doesn't work the same way for men because we have higher sex drives and thus more of a need for variety (whether it's partners or whether its variety in sexual activity). The best way to actually get women into a sexual mood when they are beyond their experimentation phase is through romance and appealing to their emotions, but most men seem to be somewhat poor on this account.

Wolfsouls · 2015-12-16T17:14:23+00:00

Because women are only attracted to hot men. The average dude is about as attractive as another woman to most of us. Men on the other hand will find almost any woman under a certain age and body mass fuckable.

Anyway, most people who are capable of doing so will have a sexually experimental phase during their youth. It's perfectly normal.

Bekazzled · 2015-12-16T13:57:54+00:00

I believe different women have different personalities and sexual drives (and I believe men do too of course). If "cock carousel" means having a period where you go out and have sex with a lot of men in the space of a few years, I've never done this. My personal beliefs growing up as a teenager is that I would do monogamous relationships but never marry or have children. I don't have anything against those who do, it's just not for me.

So I have a history of monogamous relationships where there is a year or two in between where I have sex with nobody. It's like I need time to gather myself, lay off dating. I'm not great with one-night stands because I need to find the person's brain attractive first.

That doesn't always mean I've made great choices (intelligent people aren't always the kindest people). I choose men who would be objectively be called "below my SMV" because they are intelligent and have other traits I like (e.g. wittiness, talent). I'm Australian, and a common saying that's worked its way into society when a guy gets a girlfriend who is considered better-looking than himself is the half-jokey remark "Hey mate, you're punching above your weight with this one!" To hear this is actually quite insulting, though it's meant to be a joke. So, my boyfriend is worth less than me in your eyes because you think I'm hotter - and you say this in front of him? Sometimes it will make a boyfriend feel proud but sometimes it affects their self-esteem.

Sexually, I was plain vanilla in my 20s. I don't think I was overly sexually driven. I went years without sex after my first major break-up. In my late 20 I dated around a bit, not always having sex with my partners. In my 30s now I'm more sexually driven and open to new stuff. I explore quite a bit, but within the bounds of a relationship. To me, a relationship is something that lasts at LEAST a year. My longest relationship was 7 years.

So now I'm trying to think of girls I know who would fit the description of "cock carousel" types. There were a group of girls I knew peripherally, through my best friend Cameron. Most of them at the time were VERY good-looking, some more than others (which created issues in itself) and I've met up with them occasionally via Cameron over the years.

The history of when they started to go to uni and enter that "cock carousel" can be explained I guess by each girl in the group:

Julia. Julia is beautiful. She did modelling. Blonde with tanned features. People naturally assumed she is a bitch because she is that good-looking. At first she seemed to me to be a semi-leader of the group, but she backed out of this role repeatedly. She seemed to want to back out of in-group petty spite and feminine gossip and keep to herself a bit. Her first boyfriend of four years was a stoner who seemed cool, but then he got into drinking and hit her. She never did one night stands. She is now a sports writer for our newspaper. She is engaged to a football player. She moves in semi-famous circles. She no longer speaks to the other girls in her original group.

Belinda. Belinda was - awful to say - considered the least attractive of the group. Her personality was friendly and open. At first she seemed to go clubbing a lot and strike out. I think this was because her friends were so stunning and guys would choose Julia or Holly over the other girls. She would sleep with the guys who settled on her after failing with Julia and Holly. I think she needed some sort of validation. Then at 22 she settled down young with her first serious boyfriend and is now very practical, to an extent that is even excessive. She is quite different now to how she was when younger and had to compete with Julia and Holly.

Holly. Now this is the girl who did the CC train for the longest and strangely, she's the girl I like the most. Holly looks like a brunette version of Billie Piper, except better looking than that actress. Holly went wild during her teens and early 20s. I found her the funnest person to be around, peripherally, and even though we're quite different she was the one I formed the closest bond with. I think she felt she could be serious with me and come to me for advice, as I was a bit older than these girls. There was an unspoken rule that she would never fuck with my life or boyfriends, and she never did.

Holly created chaos within her group. She gave a hand job to an acquaintance's boyfriend at a nightclub while high on ecstasy. She had an affair with him while he was still partnered-up. She slept with her friend Renae's boyfriend. She had a period of about two years where she had a boyfriend and she remained faithful - a guy with dark hair, traditionally good-looking, cocky and indifferent. I suppose you'd call him Chad. No one liked him except for her. They lived together during their relationship. She walked in on him in bed with another girl more than once. Their relationship was on-off. He kept fucking around and she put up with it for a while before ending it altogether. She jumped back into the dating scene with surprising ease - I think emotionally she'd checked out of the relationship months before the end.

Holly is endowed with a resilience and practicality, in spite of her wild behaviour, which allows her to put something in the past because (fortunately or unfortunately) she lives in the moment. She is now older and married and has a baby and is totally devoted to the husband and the baby. He knows about her past and doesn't mind. I think she puts him on a bit of a pedestal, her husband, in a way that is not dangerous. I don't think she even realizes he's equally as devoted to her. She adores him so much she can't believe her luck. And this is a guy RP would call a "beta", because he's not cocky and as handsome as her previous douchey ex. She barely recalls her ex, seeming to look on the situation bemusedly as though it was something that happened to another person if someone brings it up. She is not the type of person to dwell on her past.

Renae. Oh God this girl was a bitch. She was less good-looking than Julia or Holly, but wore a lot of make-up, remained skinny and got a boob job so she resembled "fake pretty". She had a sullen boyfriend who was Alpha-like (douchebag) and better looking than her, objectively speaking. She rode the CC for a while pre-douchebag. After they'd been together for a year or two, that's when Holly slept with him. To my moral discredit and secret delight, I high-fived Holly at a bar when she confessed she and Renae were no longer friends after she slept with Renae's boyfriend. Renae was such a nasty piece of work, self-entitled and bitchy, that it seemed almost karmic. I said to Holly, "the upside is you also never have to speak to that bitch again." They never did speak again.

Jenny - Jenny was hard to figure out. She seemed dumb, and I'm not sure if it was an act. She was the least involved in the in-group dramas, even less so than Belinda. She had (has) pale blue enormous eyes that are slightly buggy, which some men found beguiling. I would find it surprising when the occasional guy would emphatically state that Jenny was the hottest girl in the group. She had a horse-like face but a rocking body (no implants). Jenny moved around like she wasn't quite of this world, but was absent-mindedly thinking of something else - ALL the time. She had a few boyfriends but didn't do the CC thing. She was considered “picky”. I had a tendency to forget when she was in the room because she never engaged in conversation with other women. I noticed that the men who seemed most obsessed with her were the ones she didn't like. Men were very divided about whether she was good-looking or not. I don’t know what she’s doing now.

The reason why I'm also highlighting the personalities and the relationships of these women is because guys forget that women of a certain age will act a certain way according to their in-group dynamic. The power of female friends when you're in your late teens and early 20s is VERY strong. Competition is strong, group acceptance is a major drive, and bottled-up emotions explode in spectacular ways. For example, Holly slept with Renae's boyfriend as revenge for something. Belinda had a low self-esteem because she was less pretty than her friends and as such slept with the leftovers of Julia and Holly. I don't think she actually enjoyed doing this, but seemed to need some validation from any male that she had some worth. Julia followed her own ethical code which did not include one-night stands. Jenny.... I'll never understand her. Renae: I don't know what she's doing now. Just keep that bitch away from me.

PoopInMyBottom · 2015-12-16T14:05:53+00:00

Women's self-esteem increases as they get older, up until around the age of menopause.

I don't actually think that's the answer but it's a plausible explanation to the question as phrased.

Xemnas81 · 2015-12-16T15:50:37+00:00

am red but data actually shows the blues may be onto something

GrannyBlowsBetter · 2015-12-16T16:31:47+00:00

In my experience, women are more comfortable with a higher value man. If a woman loves her man in the same way she loves her children (nurturing), she will not give him sex. If she honors and respects him, he will get any sex he wants. A woman that honors her man will get sexual gratification by simply pleasing him. As long as he remains dominant (clique...) and supports her emotions and she does not feel as if she is going to be ridiculed for her behavior, she will do basically anything. I feel a natural relationship is man > woman, in terms of value. In that situation a woman is happy and comfortable to take part in kinky sex.

Title	[Question for Blue Pill] Why do self-esteem issues in women seem to affect sexual choice but not partner choice?
Author	Carkudo
Upvotes	7
Comments	34
Date	December 16, 2015 10:18 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3x2bc6/question_for_blue_pill_why_do_selfesteem_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-blue-pill-why-do-self-esteem-issues.277839 https://theredarchive.com/post/277839

Comments