Question for poly people

ThorLives · 2015-10-28T19:52:24+00:00

Yeah, I don't get the answers from poly people. It seems like there's a lot of tap-dancing going on.

I have a few friends who are in Poly relationships, and I also had a brief relationship with a poly girl six months ago (it went down in flames - it's a long story, but one of my poly friends were surprised by her bad behavior) and it made me think about poly relationships quite a bit. I also read "The Ethical Slut". I do not consider myself poly, however.

Some observations:

The second largest chapter in The Ethical Slut is about jealousy. That should tell you something right there. Jealousy is a major hurdle, and the authors say that jealousy is still an issue in their relationships (despite having decades of experience in poly relationships). One of my poly friends likes to claim that jealousy is an emotion that was given to us by societal conditioning (i.e. it's not natural), but I think that's a completely wrong belief. I think the "jealousy isn't natural" viewpoint is a way to psychologically distance yourself from the emotion - the same way that medieval religious people might ascribe their "base" desires to demons influencing them. It allows them to distance themselves from the parts of themselves they don't like, to describe it as "other" rather than "self".

Within the poly community, there's a lot of different views about what constitutes "true poly". I found it a bit obnoxious when one poly friend would say that another poly friend wasn't practicing polyamory correctly. It reminded me of infighting between religious denominations.

The poly people in this thread talk about not suppressing, but rather, expressing emotions. I don't see how that solves anything. If you feel fear about something (losing a job, getting sick, etc), talking about it isn't going to make the outcome less likely. It seems to me that if you meet someone you really like, and you want them to continue spending a lot of time with you, connecting with you, being there for you, that you should have a fear of losing them because it would be a major loss if they were gone. If you can easily get that from most of the people you meet (i.e. your partner isn't seen as special or uncommon), then I could understand why the fear would be lessened - because you can easily turn around and find someone new to replace them. You don't fear losing them for the same reason you don't fear getting the brakes replaced on your car - they are easily replaceable and interchangeable, like cogs in a machine. The people I know who are poly tend to connect-with and think well-of of a large section of the population. They think you're great, but they think everybody is great. Perhaps they don't fear loss because everyone is easily replaceable by an equally great other person. The "you're great" and "you're easily replaceable" are a weird juxtaposition. Some of the poly people I know are sort of irrational about who they thinks is a great person (which has resulted in them getting into relationships/flings with clingy, selfish people).

I should also point out that most of the poly men I know skew towards wanting the sexual variety that poly allows. One guy comes off as just a simple pickup artist who wants the security of a girlfriend and the sexual variety of sleeping with every girl he can. The poly guys I know seem to be attracted to a wide variety of women - those women ranging from "actually beautiful" to "I would not want to see her naked". In many cases, I think some poly guys dress up their desire to sleep with every woman they meet with the word "polyamory" because it's a good marketing strategy.

If, on the other hand, you have more trouble finding people you actually like and connect-with, loss of a relationship becomes that much more of a loss. Why? Because if you lose that person that you're currently in a relationship, it's going to take a lot of work and time to find someone new. The loss is much more severe. This is also why I think poly people seem silly when they just think you need to express your jealousy and find the root cause (or something). If person A thinks most people are great and sexually attractive and easily connects with other people, and person B thinks you need to work to find a good person and sexually attractive people are scarce and had difficulty connecting with strangers, well it's obvious that loss of a partner is going to be much more severe for person B than for person A. If person A is poly and person B is monogamous, person A saying that "you don't need to fear loss" is kind of silly because it's such a different situation for person B. I think poly people ignore this fact.

susandeath · 2015-10-28T13:41:17+00:00

Why is jealousy bad? It's a normal human emotion. It's natural, it's healthy. Granted too much jealousy is bad, same as too much sadness, anger or happiness. But why do you feel the need to suppress and bury or try to deny a basic human emotion?

So as I understand jealousy is that it is a compound emotion often made up of other things. It is natural and human.

The most common way that people deal with jealousy is to prevent the behaviour that cause it. For example if Sarah and Ed are married and Ed has a very close woman friend, Sarah may get jealous. So she tells Ed, Ed says to friend we can't be this close anymore or whatever and Sarah stops feeling jealous.

If you want to be poly, which some of us do, then you can't do that. You can't get your partner to change the behaviour that makes you jealous. So you unpack the jealousy and figure out what trigger it, is it insecurity or competitiveness or ownership etc. The unpacking of the emotion allows you to identify the triggers of your own jealousy so that you don't tell your partner not to do things.

I don't think that either way of dealing with jealousy is the "right" way or the "wrong" way. If Ed in the above example is happy about breaking off the friendship because his relationship is more important, then Sarah's jealousy has been dealt with in a manner that is good for their relationship and not destructive.

In a poly relationship asking your partner to change their behaviour based on your jealousy is a destructive behaviour.

Furthermore, do you really think it works?

Relationships are tough, anyone who has been in an LTR and lets say over 3 years and up for this definition will tell you that LTRs are tough, now add extra people and its gonna be harder so yeah do I think it works, for some yes, for others no.

Half the posts at any given time in r/polyamory[1] are about how it's not really working.

All the posts on /r/relationships are about relationships not working, context matters. I used to post a lot on /r/polyamory about 2 years ago, when things were a bit rough and I was figuring out what was happening and needed advice and sometimes just understanding. I haven't posted in over a year because my relationships are working so I have no need to go to a support group for understanding and advice.

If half the posts in TRP were about guys who couldn't get laid, no one would think it works.

Getting laid is way easier than maintaining multiple relationships so I don't think its a fair comparison.

wazzup987 · 2015-10-28T17:13:12+00:00

Why is jealousy bad?

Because it poison. its tolerable in small amounts in mono but in poly its radio active waste.

Listen if you go poly accepting that your so is fucking other people is step one. its a big step. but you have to realize so are you. Also you have to realize they aren't dating for no reason they are dating you because the like you.

the best way to coup with jealousy is to meet the metamores.JUST DO IT. becuase what ever you have in you head is worse than reality your expecting CHAD T COCK when in reality she dating beta bob. you will probably get along too. hell some times friend ships with meta mores last longer than the actual relationship.

It's a normal human emotion.

not really. its with in the normal spectrum of emotions, but it like one those things you keep to a min.

It's natural,

with in certain tolerances, but it best for you to weed it out. jealously is neighbors with self pity.

it's healthy.

No it not. and happiness, joy, are all healthy in reasonable amounts. jealously is unhealthy in any amount but can be tolerated. its a ball and chain.

Granted too much jealousy is bad, same as too much sadness, anger or happiness.

your like 2/3 of the way there

But why do you feel the need to suppress and bury or try to deny a basic human emotion?

bury? no get rid of. like i said if you know your partner metamores it helps a lot. and it not basic either, happyness anger sorrow are basic emotions. jealousy is a complex emotion

Furthermore, do you really think it works?

yes

Half the posts at any given time in r/polyamory[1] are about how it's not really working.

95% of the post on trp are whinny about how bad women are.

but really go to a poly meet up. check fetlife or meet up. reddit isn't the whole poly community. also there are a lot growing pains in poly especially if you are coming from a a newly opened relationship.

If half the posts in TRP were about guys who couldn't get laid, no one would think it works.

...... no comment

madscientistlove · 2015-10-28T21:43:25+00:00

But why do you feel the need to suppress and bury or try to deny a basic human emotion?

Jealousy in and of itself is not bad. Like you say, it is a normal human emotion. However, I feel that allowing jealousy to control your actions of make decisions for you is a bad thing. Just as it's bad to let your anger or sadness control you. It is an emotion and it can be mastered and dealt with in healthy, logical ways.

But why do you feel the need to suppress and bury or try to deny a basic human emotion?

I don't. I sit with my jealousy and allow myself to feel it, but I do not let it control me. And then I kill it with logic. Jealousy is often the fear of losing a thing that you value.

"If Janey fucks Suzie, then maybe she'll like her better." then your wheels start spinning with, "Is Suzie prettier than me? Is she thinner, funnier, smarter, better in bed?"

Instead of letting it eat you alive, you can realize that "Janey is with me because she values my time and company." Is it possible that Janey will run off with Suzie? Sure, it could happen. Janey could leave even if we were mono.

If the perks of having a poly relationship outweigh the negatives for you personally, then you deal with your fears and insecurities in healthy, reasonable ways that don't involve monogamy.

r/polyamory is a help forum, much like r/relationships. You don't see the good, you only see the shit that people are going through. If I got my idea of relationships from r/relationships, I'd think no relationship ever worked out. Anecdotally, I had many healthy polyamorous relationships for several years. It can and does work for many people.

Prometheus720 · 2015-10-29T06:20:18+00:00

A lot of people seem to think it's cool to be poly and so they say they are without ever having tried it. So as a disclaimer, I'm not poly and I don't think I would be if I tried it. However, I do think I'm a bit more relaxed than the average joe.

The most basic answer is that I prefer being in control. I like being my own boss at all times, and emotions getting the better of me is not my idea of fun. And jealousy makes people do stupid things. Drives good friends apart, etc. I think that's all very unfortunate and I'd rather avoid it.

Another thing is, well, I haven't been fortunate enough to meet very many women who I was really worried about losing. I'm accustomed to breaking off both platonic and romantic relationships. It's not a big deal to me unless she's something special. And just mathematically, most girls aren't.

Things are also a little different in my preferred relationship dynamic. It's easier to set boundaries when setting boundaries is your thing anyway. People in that community see sex a whole different way. "Play" is a great word, because that's what it is. I don't care if she plays a little within set boundaries, because I'm mentally and emotionally prepared for that eventuality beforehand. It's not a shock to me. And in the end, I value my sexual freedom more than I value her sexual loyalty, to a point at least. Once in a while and if everyone knows what's going on.

But maybe that's more like swinging than poly. I dunno. What I can say is that I'm game for anything. I'd try true poly. Can't say I'd like it, but I'd give it a shot. For science, and so on.

trp132 · 2015-10-29T15:23:41+00:00

Why is jealousy bad?

Jealousy isn't intrinsically bad. It's a natural response to a fear of loss.

Fear isn't bad either. It's natural. It tells us when things are wrong. It tells us when we aren't doing OK in order to protect us.

But why do you feel the need to suppress and bury or try to deny a basic human emotion?

So, why do people ride roller coasters? Roller coasters make you feel scared! You're put up in a high place! It's natural to feel terror when you're out of control and moving fast. Question for all roller-coaster riders: why do you feel the need to suppress and try to deny the basic human emotion of natural fear?

Furthermore, do you really think it works?

Yes, for some people and some circumstances it works great.

Half the posts at any given time in r/polyamory are about how it's not really working.

Half/all the posts at any given time in r/relationships are about how it's not really working. Half/all the posts at any given time in r/sex are about how it's not really working. Half the posts at any given time in r/startups are about how it's not really working. Guess nobody should have relationships,sex,or entrepreneurship.

If half the posts in TRP were about guys who couldn't get laid, no one would think it works.

More than half are about that, almost all in r/asktrp

flyingwaterlilly · 2015-10-28T14:55:59+00:00

I think jealousy is, for the most part one's own fears and insecurities and a lack of trust and honesty. These factors either each on its own or combined can cause any relationship to fail.

ozymandias271 · 2015-10-28T15:48:08+00:00

I think jealousy is natural and healthy! Jealousy is like having a pain in your foot. You don't want to suppress the foot pain, or deny the foot pain, or go "FOOT PAIN IS BAD THEREFORE I DON'T HAVE ANY." You want to go "huh, I wonder if my shoes are too small, or if I walked too much yesterday. Let's figure it out."

Similarly, jealousy is a helpful indicator that something is wrong. If I'm jealous of my partner kissing another girl, maybe I feel upset because he hardly ever kisses me anymore, or because I think she's much prettier than me and he'll leave me for her, or because my partner hasn't been talking to me much anymore and I feel like he doesn't love me.

I mean, to be honest, to me jealousy seems sort of like terrorism: you pour billions of dollars into the NSA and the TSA and the Department of Homeland Security, and it finally turns out to be one guy with a shoe bomb who's apprehended pretty easily by four cops. I have as many relationship problems as anyone else, but jealousy really isn't one of them. My boyfriend's wife is one of my closest friends and I probably talk to her more than I talk to him. We both love my boyfriend and want him to be happy. That's way more common than jealousy IME.

However, some people seem to naturally be jealous even when there isn't a problem. That's fine! It just means they're not cut out for polyamory. Different strokes for different folks. :)

Happy people don't bother to post on poly subreddits. I mean, what am I going to say? "Yesterday I hung out with a guy I'm flirting with! It was really fun, he and his metamour baked brownies, but they didn't do the veganism adjustments right and they came out burned. Unfortunately I had to leave early because his girlfriend broke up with her boyfriend. It was just as well, I needed to get some work done." I mean, zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Wolfwoodd · 2015-10-28T14:27:34+00:00

Jealousy = thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, concern and anxiety over an anticipated loss

Showing insecurity, fear, etc. as a man, is generally considered unattractive by the opposite sex. Therefore, jealousy is an unattractive trait; kill it with fire. It works. I did it. You can do it too. It just takes effort and a great deal of real world experience.

Honestly, I don't have much else to add to u/Susandeath's reply. They kind of nailed it.

HalfysReddit · 2015-10-28T15:28:23+00:00

Well jealousy is bad because it's unpleasant, the same reason anxiety and fear are bad. Yea they're useful, but since they're unpleasant we call them "bad feelings" as opposed to "good feelings" like happiness and joy.

As far as polyamory telling people to suppress jealousy, you were either fed some false information or misread something somewhere. No one is supposed to suppress anything. What polyamory does aim to do is be frank and honest with our emotions - a simple statement like "I am jealous" says very little, but a statement like "I recognize that other people that have a certain quality are attractive and I don't have that quality and I get afraid sometimes that you're so into this other person because of that quality that you'll leave me or at least become upset that I don't display that quality".

In any case, if you get the impression you're having to suppress your emotions to make polyamory work, then it's entirely possible that polyamory just isn't for you.

Iforgotmybucket · 2015-10-28T16:38:58+00:00

Some people are just naturally not jealous. I've wondered why I don't generally feel jealous in relationships, and I believe it's multifold. I'm not a competitive person, never have been. That's just my natural personality. I don't ever feel as though I need to compete for love and attention. I also believe that jealousy is destructive and pointless (although natural). If I'm suspicious that a partner is cheating, I ask for the truth and either accept or reject what they're telling me. I don't try to change the situation, because I don't believe I have the power to do that. All I can do is make decisions based on the information I have and choose to stay or go.

Not to say I never feel jealous, or that I believe it's evil to feel jealous. I just prefer to feel otherwise.

LucyLover78 · 2015-10-28T18:37:45+00:00

I'm on mobile so my apologies if this comment appears sloppy. So let's discuss jealousy!! Jealousy is not inherently bad. In a monogamous relationship it's seen as a powerful controlling trump card. So of course in that light jealousy is like a vicious scary monster a couple either has to fight together or bury.

Jealousy takes on a whole new light in a polyamorous relationship. It's no longer a scary monster that has to be ignored. On the contrary it causes so many extra issues if one attempts to ignore it. Jealousy is viewed as a scared and hurt part of my partner that needs some extra love and attention. With enough emotional processing jealousy becomes something more manageable. It's practically therapeutic to dissect "jealousy," into the real fears. One example I can give is based off of my own experience. Part of my jealousy is from my own fear of abandonment. My dad left when I was 11 so I was bringing that experience into every relationship. I was oblivious to that information because my first assumption was that I must have been jealous. I had a deep and long conversation with my partner and have since then let go of that pain.

grendalor · 2015-10-28T19:35:25+00:00

Jealousy kills poly relationships. Everyone on reddit is poly, it seems -- all poly, bi, LGBTQ or wish they were. So jealousy is bad. That's reddit.

TheShadowyScapula · 2015-10-28T19:41:39+00:00

Shame is a normal human emotion. It is not healthy. Self-hatred is a normal human emotion. It is not healthy.

Jealousy will cause you to act in ways that are not kind or healthy for either your partners or yourself. Becoming suspicious and accusatory is bad in a relationship. Not trusting is bad in a relationship. Making nasty comments about yourself or your partners or your partners' partners is bad in a relationship. Recognizing jealousy and getting over the emotion will cause you to act in ways that don't suck.

If half the posts in TRP were about guys who couldn't get laid, no one would think it works.

More than half fit this criteria.

Poly works for people

Title	Question for poly people
Author	relationshipdownvote
Upvotes	8
Comments	195
Date	October 28, 2015 1:27 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3qk37s/question_for_poly_people/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-poly-people.278770 https://theredarchive.com/post/278770

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