The nice Guy vs The virtuous Man

wtknight · 2021-06-09T12:29:31+00:00

Removed. No rants. If you would like to express your personal views please create a properly formatted CMV post.

sohcahtoa666 · 2021-06-09T09:37:16+00:00

Sounds like a lot of work.

I'll just stick with being an asshole.

Mondholm · 2021-06-09T08:48:58+00:00

People should mind their own business.

I'm so sick of people trying to manipulate me into what the man is they profit most from.

Fuck off.

TheJim66 · 2021-06-09T09:02:51+00:00

Okay, both are sexually unattractive to the woman. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk

NockerJoe · 2021-06-09T08:51:39+00:00

Sure, but the flip side is that those guys have to be fine with getting absolutley nothing at any point while still constantly giving.

A virtuous man in a virtuous society is beautiful. A virtuous man in the real world is easy to take advantage of unless he stops being infinitley generous to everyone and uses his brain.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-06-09T10:32:52+00:00

You should try to read this, and think about it.

here's one key part :

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that True Love is really inconvenient.
It might not be requited, and then it would be a huge mess and no one
would have any idea what to do, because our culture tells us that True
Love Must Always Conquer Everything. If some woman I didn't like
expressed True Love for me, it would make me feel guilty and horrible. And because I'm just as susceptible to the Just World Fallacy
as anyone else, I would tell them it wasn't true love at all but just
plain Creepiness. And that it makes her a bad person and she should be
ashamed of herself and so rejecting her is not only okay but actively heroic.
And all my neighbors would support me in this, because we all know that
True Love is the most powerful thing in the universe, even more
powerful than nuclear weapons, and so we can't just let random people go
around having it any more than we would just let random people have the Bomb.

Maybe also read this.

a few good parts :

And I’m still not sure what a good response to his question would have been. But later that night I was browsing the Internet and I was reminded of what the worse response humanly possible. It would go something like:

You keep whining about how “unfair” it is that you can’t get a good job. “But I’m such a hard worker.” No, actual hard workers don’t feel like they’re entitled to other people’s money just because they ask nicely.

“Why do rich white kids who got legacy admissions to Yale receive cushy sinecures, but I have to work two grueling minimum wage jobs just to keep a roof over my head?” By even asking that question, you prove that you think of bosses as giant bags of money, rather than as individual human beings who are allowed to make their own choices. No one “owes” you money just because you say you “work hard”, and by complaining about this you’re proving you’re not really a hard worker at all. I’ve seen a lot of Hard Workers (TM) like you, and scratch their entitled surface and you find someone who thinks just because they punched a time card once everyone needs to bow down and worship them.

If you complain about “rich white kids who get legacy admissions to Yale,” you’re raising a huge red flag that you’re the kind of person who steals from their employer, and companies are exactly right to give you a wide berth.

Such a response would be so antisocial and unjust that it could only possibly come from the social justice movement.

1Here4Bach · 2021-06-09T12:02:58+00:00

Idk why you think the sociopathic, anti-social men on here want to be kind for the sake of being kind. If their kindness doesn’t give the endless pussy on demand they aren’t going to do it.

343_peaches_and_tea · 2021-06-09T09:22:21+00:00

Honestly women who fantasize like this are a red flag for me

This fantasizing leads women into relationships where they're less in a relationship with their partners and who they actually are and more in love with the man in their own fantasy.

This happened with my ex. Women who are like this are constantly disappointed when you don't meet every single one of their expectations. They fetishize your affection and wax lyrical about the wonderful ways in which you'll propose to them.

If this is what tradcons want, then fill your boots. It's not for me. For me, I don't really want to be treated like a object thanks.

EDIT: just to be clear it's completely okay to have things you're looking for in a partner but that's different.

jazzmaster1992 · 2021-06-09T09:05:23+00:00

I never really got this argument. It's a little strange to expect people - either men or women - to be these perfect, virtuous specimens with no expectations that it will ever benefit them somehow, like attracting the opposite sex. IMO, there's nothing inherently wrong with treating someone a bit differently because you desire them sexually. It's perfectly normal and I see it all the time - in the same way that women give far more of their time and attention to men that they're actually interested in, a lot of men do the same. What's wrong with that? The problem with "Nice Guys" is they take the wrong approach, they don't make their intentions clear, they don't show real interest, they spend too much time on a woman who's clearly not interested, etc. They also tend to have other qualities that harm their dating life, like being needy and insecure.

TenderHeartToxicFart · 2021-06-09T09:05:03+00:00

A good man would be a guy that did everything for everyone else. Literally a doormat.

ivy176 · 2021-06-09T09:14:33+00:00

True. Genuinely virtuous men are what they are. "Nice guys" are pretending to be something in order to get sex.

Also, being an actual nice person, or virtuous, DOES NOT mean a person will have low self esteem, be extremely passive and excessively agreeable. Why do people act like a nice, virtuous, moral person would be a pushover? If someone is a really well rounded and developed person, they will be skilled in appropriate assertiveness. Being polite, kind, considerate and genuine in your day to day life doesn't mean making everyone's dreams come true and abandoning your needs, desires, opinions, safety etc. Why on earth do people think that?

It makes me question what these men think is "an asshole", because they are pushing that in order to be a good person, nice and virtuous, you have to be a pushover, available to anyone, have no self esteem or ability to stand up for yourself. So basically they are demonizing good people for having self esteem. You're only good if you hate yourself. Nobody needs to hate themselves and be an absolute sucker to be nice or a good person, male or female. That is really toxic.

I think reddit guys are confusing being "nice" with mental health issues. There is no requirement to have awful self esteem, no backbone and let everyone walk all over you in order to be nice. These things are not related. People don't have to sacrifice or experience loss or harm to be nice or good.

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TheDevilPutD · 2021-06-09T09:32:14+00:00

That's the wrong attitude. The problem is that you still think you need to be some sort of ubermensch in order for women to love you. You can be virtuous and good, but if you are truly suppressing your real self and your masculinity which are never good and virtuous and clean and perfect, then you are still going to have trouble with broads. There is no need to purify yourself and your masculinity. Embrace every dark fucked up thing about you, own it and be okay with it. That's true confidence and self assurance.

DiscussionReader · 2021-06-09T10:31:30+00:00

Are virtuous men getting more laid that non-virtuous men? Absolutely not, stop assigning moral value to attraction. This is not a class on ethics or religion, this is a sub meant to discuss dating.

Attraction doesn't follow morality, niceness isn't a factor in attraction regardless of intention.

AceOfBlacks · 2021-06-09T11:32:49+00:00

This pretty much describes how I naturally lead my life, however it does nothing for dating prospects though, don't get the two mixed up.

Dirty_Purity · 2021-06-09T12:20:40+00:00

A man shouldn't try to be "nice" but really altruist, honest, reliable, trustworthy, honorable, humble, courageus.

To be honest, I don't think it is a good idea. A man won't gain much from that but there are a lot of people who will try to exploit him for their own gain. A man should put his own interests (and interests of people who important to him) above everything else.

Making favours for those in need is just part of it.

I make favors only for my friends. For everyone else I could make them if it costs me nothing otherwise they have to make me interested so that won't be a favour per se.

and wouldn't give two single fucks about one very specific girl not wanting to have sex with him.

As for that, I can't agree more. It is a very typical and dangerous mistake young men often do.

DaBlockObama · 2021-06-09T08:58:33+00:00

I think that all of those virtues fall under general niceness.

Like sometimes people have said that I was smart, because I learned things. Things like the histories and religions of the people in my state. But it has nothing to intelligence. It doesn’t take any intelligence to read Wikipedia.

I don’t think I’m smart because I chose to learn about the people in my community. I did it because I see myself as being nice. And knowing things is nice. It will be nicer for them if I understand their culture. I lump a lot of positive qualities together under general niceness.

I have a friend who lives in the US all his life, and doesn’t know anything about Christianity. I think he is sort of a jerk for that. He knows a million Christians and hangs out with them every day, but he never bothered to get on Wikipedia and find out what they believe in. That’s not nice.

ex_red_black_piller · 2021-06-09T11:13:29+00:00

Lol as soon as I stopped being a 'good man' and became a dick, I got a lot more attention from women.

The funniest case was when I told some girl she was being a bitch and I didn't want to talk to her, and she became more into me and sent me a few apologetic texts.

Title	The nice Guy vs The virtuous Man
Author	Ludens0
Upvotes	6
Comments	48
Date	June 9, 2021 8:39 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nvqwuf/the_nice_guy_vs_the_virtuous_man/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-nice-guy-vs-the-virtuous-man.783592 https://theredarchive.com/post/783592

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