The Red Pill Tone?

ReddishBlack · 2015-10-03T15:11:14+00:00

Not all humans possess the same mind. To some, being "edgy" is funny, mostly younger people. Beyond humor, being edgy is a defensive mechanism against sensitive people who ruin the climate of the social environment with the demand for censorship.

Men who have no taste for that sort of social group will agree with you, and think the crass group is immoral. There is a meta-ethical tint to this line of reasoning. A person with a taste for the social cohesion of everyone comes into conflict with a group that favors in group cohesion to the exclusion of others. Often, the all cohesive person claims moral superiority over the exclusive crowd due to reason X. While the exclusive crowd justifies their hostility towards out groups with reason Y.

Now, which behavior is more morally valid, X or Y? To me, you have to resolve this disagreement with moral relativism. The gist, is that moral truths are valid within the context of the groups that agree they are good. So in group A, X is moral while Y is immoral, while in group B the reverse is true.

Moral relativism leaves something to be desired though, as it does not seem to address all the moral conflicts that a human being can have. For example, groups A and B are both members of the same species, meta group H. There seems to be rules that have to be accepted by all members of group H in order for it to exist as a group of living organisms.

I will make a meta-ethical claim that we ought not cook our children for a meal when we are hungry. Now, this is something that we are free to do, if no laws were in place, but something that we have always chosen not to do, or else we as group H would be extinct. We all possess the instinct that it would be morally unacceptable to roast our children on a whim, thus we can claim that meta-ethical truths exist for members of group H.

Now, the real question is that is action X or Y in violation of the meta-ethical truths of group H. I have not decided whether TRP is in violation of what I would consider to be human meta-ethical truths, but for that matter, I believe that TBP may in violation of some as well.

youcantdenythat · 2015-10-03T14:41:18+00:00

Is Red Pill 'tone' reflective of how real men talk

The forum is made up of men and therefor, by definition, is reflective. There are many different kinds of men there, some are young men in high school, others are in their 50s. They come from various parts of the world and have a myriad of experiences.

Is the anger phase argument/excuse a conscious or unconscious cover to avoid having to defend rationally undefendable behavior, to avoid having to address fundamental personality defects that exist in the type of people that are drawn to red pill?

Angry / overly emotional people often say dumb things. Is that a difficult concept?

And is trpers thinking red pill 'tone' is how real men talk reflective of how divorced they are from the normal reality of most men?

Strawman / loaded question.

... Being nasty/hateful is not a male trait, it's a disturbed human trait.

Again, strawman. The Red Pill doesn't exist to be nasty or hateful, they exist to help each other become better men.

Additionally, how would red pillers even know how men talk as they frequently complain that they were not taught how to be men growing up?

Not all do, but many do. Alot of the red pill is about the more-mature helping the less-mature become the best they can be.

Finally, if red pillers are more likely to be disturbed individuals, divorced from reality... blah blah blah

Again, a strawman. Red pillers are about finding truths/reality, not being divorced therefrom.

I have a question for you. Why do you hate on a group of people so much that you need to make up strawmen, twist things around, and try to put down a group of people trying to better themselves?

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-10-03T17:04:28+00:00

tone policing and political correctness are entirely female phenomenon to protect feelings, men really REALLY don't give a shit.

drok007 · 2015-10-03T19:13:14+00:00

RP and BP can be mean in different ways. BP is female mean, it's all women and feminine men. That's why they snark all the time.

goatismycopilot · 2015-10-03T12:58:51+00:00

I am going to disagree. I was actually glad to see the mask ripped off in that long ass thread, for example, about the shooting since ultimately most in the TRP more or less said the same thing. TRP people are not under some obligation to modify what they say or think. I am solidly BP. TRP folks are not under an obligation to be pleasant if they don't feel like it.

I do think it showed me the limits of PPD and I was glad of that.

I don't think TRP people are disturbed. Some of them seem like assholes, but honestly that perception is my problem, it more or less reminded me, hey, if you don't want to hang out with assholes, then don't.

I pretty much realized that it literally did not matter what I said, it would all come down to hypergamy or hamstering or some other thing. Bottom line, I am not sure you can constructively debate here. I am not sure people really are listening to one another, or they are listening but mostly so they can formulate their next response.

I do think men and women talk differently when they are with one another. The difference is TRP people think when I am with my girl gang all we talk about is stupid shit and there is not much I can do to persuade otherwise.

The distain, the lack of respect, and the dismissal is real and it is not ever going to change. But if TRP folks are happy like that I am not inclined to try and socially engineer things to make them nice. I say that because all of that whether they want to admit it or not comes across IRL. I know they like to claim they are all undercover and nobody knows but if you really listen to people IRL they show you who they are. So, as a female human, I would rather know up front who hates me, who does not want to interact, and who thinks I am a moron because it saves me time in deciding who I want to invest time and energy with.

taiboworks · 2015-10-03T18:30:04+00:00

Is Red Pill 'tone' reflective of how real men talk

Yes.

is it reflective of how disturbed individuals

Not necessarily.

Is the anger phase argument/excuse a conscious or unconscious cover to avoid having to defend rationally undefendable behavior, to avoid having to address fundamental personality defects that exist in the type of people that are drawn to red pill?

How do you feel when you come to that you are conned into something? How do you feel if you came to know that the guy you thought as best friend for several years is stealing all your money the whole time? It's same thing with anger phase. they were lied to whole life about reality of women and life. remember some of them lost 20 years of life and several thousand dollars of money.

One of the main purposes of red pill is to raise attractiveness

No. The main purpose of Redpill is to being in touch with our natural Masculinity. Raising attractiveness is one of the ways to achieve it. It takes less importance in Redpill. If you measure yourself with physical attractiveness, you are doing it wrong.Men measure themselves with their ability to do shit. remember, we ask newbies to do lifting as first thing not to built adonis figure, It is to prove themselves that they are strong and can lift heavy weight. Lifting raise the T levels. When your T levels raise, you "think" differently i.e. you become masculine.

like the idea that if you are no the top 20% you will be miserable, and god help you if you are asian/indian/short.

I am Indian, Short and Ugly and it never stopped me.

So it makes sense that red pillers are oriented to avoid acknowledging their unattractive qualities, spinning/rationalizing/hamstering the abnormal hostile tone of red pill as a result of the 'anger phase' and/or normal male talk. which is it? who knows, nothing is really clear in double speak land (which is why double speak is a useful 'short term' defense mechanism, in the long term it just makes you look uncredible, dishonest, hypocritical).

We don't avoid acknowledging our unattractive qualities. We are at peace with reality whether it is positive or negative. You know what, When we deadlift 450 lbs and see bar bending in the mirror, all the insecurity and bullshit goes out window.

Additionally, how would red pillers even know how men talk as they frequently complain that they were not taught how to be men growing up?

When a group of physically strong men are left lone to work together for longtime, Their language becomes redpill tone. It's in our DNA. The language of high T male has redpill tone.

That's like if children raised without adequate language training formed a group, came up with their own language standards, and tried to tell other people with normal language backgrounds 'how it is'? It's kind of surreal.

You cannot compare language to masculine tone. Language is learned and is different between cultures but tone of masculine men is same everywhere irrespective of cultures.

Even if red pillers were right, they should still understand their views are crazy to most people and many don't seem to even want to admit that (because that would render them unattractive to most people, which means no sex, which must be avoided at all costs hence the need to operate with doublespeak not just to others, but to themselves).

Law 38: Think as you like, but behave like others

gavinok · 2015-10-03T18:42:46+00:00

Something you should keep in mind is that, much of the way we speak, men or women, is affected by political correctness and the fear of offending someone in day to day life. So when someone speaks under the guise of complete lack of identity, their more raw thoughts come out.

People in real life to be honest are a lot more sensitive to being offended than you see on tbp or trp. I have seen people yelling racism if someone reports a black person for a crime.

I believe TRP just sounds more intense in tone because of the mass policing done on our speech in real life.

ECoast_Man · 2015-10-03T22:16:48+00:00

A trper pointed out the blue pill subreddit is just as nasty/mean, which is an admittal that /r/theredpill has a nasty/mean tone and isn't really masculine unless blue pill is a den of hypermasculinity too (link).

Nope. You are being oversimplistic as usual. It's not just using literary devices, it is the ways in which they are used.

Men - 'stop being a faggot, you pussy'

Bloopers - 'sha, right! Because being a man is toooootally hard! /s ;p amirite!'

See the difference?

anacrassis · 2015-10-03T16:55:15+00:00

which is an admittal that

I stopped reading.

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-10-03T14:37:07+00:00

The tone exists for two reasons:

1)To satisfy the feelings of some people.

2) To attract attention to TRP .

The RP mods promote this tone on purpose.

PetticoatRuled · 2015-10-03T13:45:24+00:00

Is Red Pill 'tone' reflective of how real men talk or is it reflective of how disturbed individuals communicate/think? A trper pointed out the blue pill subreddit is just as nasty/mean, which is an admittal that /r/theredpill has a nasty/mean tone and isn't really masculine unless blue pill is a den of hypermasculinity too (link).

It's not reflective of how men talk. Which men talk of women being subhuman, able to be trained like dogs, the "need" for women to be sextoys and girlfriends for "low SMV" men, and on and on??

Men don't talk like that.

Men who've dehumanized women in their minds see them that way.

Jokoran · 2015-10-03T17:39:30+00:00

TRP is not one person and nor does it have one tone.

Xemnas81 · 2015-10-03T14:56:48+00:00

I'm breaking composure now. I already posted this https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3n9v9v/tone_policing_what_is_it_and_what_role_should_it/cvmjwce?context=3 so I'll have to repeat it.

for fucking fuck's sake TRP is hyperbole to redirect young men who otherwise wouldn't get it to the outer Manosphere.

Imagine that you were trying to teach a child algebra. Do you start with integration, or finding Infinity? No you start with 2+X=4 ffs

One of the main purposes of red pill is to raise attractiveness, one might argue they are fixated on their attractiveness/unattractiveness (like the idea that if you are no the top 20% you will be miserable, and god help you if you are asian/indian/short).

If you dwell and moan about your unattractiveness all the time you're wallowing in self pity which is really beta. If you notice I'm something like SMV4 but I mostly talk about my non-rejection-based personal experiences, the theory as a whole and men's rights/anti-3rd wave rad-feminists issues.
The Asian/Indian guys are getting blamed because they too are wallowing. Every problem they have is being sourced as due to their race. Literally every thread "I am Asian/Indian man am I bound to be foreveralone? Is there Indian Red Pill?" They could be 300lbs and wear anti-Semitic t-shirts to work for all I know.

I have linked to it before but Asian/Indian lurkers, for the love of God I trust that you're aware of discrimination, it sucks I sympathise, my best friends are Indian and my ex was too. Some people are shitty others are not. On that note, read the core reading list, and for your particular plight Models, C8 Demographics: Race and the Foreigner Effect to learn how you can use this to your (gasp!) advantage. OK? Don't post another thread on this until you actually have read everything, done everything and come back with no results.

So it makes sense that red pillers are oriented to avoid acknowledging their unattractive qualities, spinning/rationalizing/hamstering the abnormal hostile tone of red pill as a result of the 'anger phase' and/or normal male talk. which is it? who knows, nothing is really clear in double speak land (which is why double speak is a useful 'short term' defense mechanism, in the long term it just makes you look uncredible, dishonest, hypocritical).

TRP talks in an unusually elaborate, articulate and open way about gender politics that most people IRL do not have the charisma to do, the energy to do, the time to do with living life etc. or even the interest in doing, if either high enough SMV to not be worried or being so plugged in that they cannot conceive of anything other than their current beta-tude. I have tested the waters with a few guys, and a couple harbour anti-feminist views, others agree with the Nice Guy fallacy/beta Game, but most do not need TRP, so why would they read knee deep into it? TRP is for men who need it, who are yes usually damaged individuals.

To red pillers that really believe the 'claim' that /r/theredpill is an example of 'typical' male type interaction, what other subreddit has a remotely similar hostile tone to red pill subs (other than bluepill)? I can name one that did, /r/fatpeoplehate (which interestingly was about the same size as red pill), and it was full of people (men and women) who took pleasure in demeaning others. Being nasty/hateful is not a male trait, it's a disturbed human trait.

JFC look at this meme my mother put up on facebook today. LOOK AT IT.

http://zenmischief.blogspot.co.uk/2013_06_01_archive.html

Is this funny? Is it? Men are so stupid compared to women God had to give them a dick to think with. Hahaha. No that is not funny you divorce raped my father because you weren't haaappy you...I can't say it/. I love my mother. But my god am I pissed off.

Now look at this video my female friends had a dark giggle at a few months ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnqcSVhbVg

MGM! Hahahaha! It's funny when it's a stupid ex you know. You Go Grrl!

So we have established that women can joke about MGM and also post on FB that men are stupid, But yet if men admit to having some...idk, reservations about the current state of gender politics, then we must be Bitter Misogynists and silenced? http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/25/bitter-misogynists/

A man cannot even call a woman hjt these days without somebody somewhere telling him to stop being a shallow sexist douchebag objectifying women.

How is that tone policing for you?

Now on next point, have you ever bothered to read any lit outside of Reddit| on RP? Rational Male, Heartiste, Dalrock, RooshV, SoSuave, JudgyBitch, IllimitableMen, (sort of) Mark Manson, Robert Glover's No More Mr Nice Guy, Athol Kay's Married Man's Sex Life Primer/Mindful Attraction Plan, etc. to name a few? Can you honestly earnestly refute the statements they make as 'unreasonable tone'?

Additionally, how would red pillers even know how men talk as they frequently complain that they were not taught how to be men growing up? That's like if children raised without adequate language training formed a group, came up with their own language standards, and tried to tell other people with normal language backgrounds 'how it is'? It's kind of surreal. Red pillers are operating from the premise that their reality is the true reality, and mainstream society is actually crazy/dysfunctional (not them), when most of the world (that has any awareness of them) thinks they live in a disturbed fantasy land. Even if red pillers were right, they should still understand their views are crazy to most people and many don't seem to even want to admit that (because that would render them unattractive to most people, which means no sex, which must be avoided at all costs hence the need to operate with doublespeak not just to others, but to themselves).

No, we were not taught how to be attractive to women. We were taught one way by society, and it fucking failed. We were taught how to be unquestioning servants to the feminine imperative at the brief glimpse that one day a woman might condescend to respect us. That's it. Yoou get some guys who are more socially phobic and awkward, autistic or what have you, but most of those go to r/FA por incel communities. The average RP man is a relatively socially adjusted but plugged-in man of average attractiveness, from a broken home/single mother household, who is either virgin, regularly friendzoned and Nice Guy shamed to breaking point, or has been burned in several relationships (used as ATM, cheated on, divorce raped etc.)

So once againb, TRP is a hyperbolic explanation of a more moderate RP reality. Please read this http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html and tell me if you can honestly refute the theory, then we'll talk about cultural RP being a lie.

Finally, if red pillers are more likely to be disturbed individuals, divorced from reality (or at least the mainstream view of reality), can you really constructively debate them? Is ppd, for non red pillers, really more about being able to observe, interact with exotic disturbed humans from the safe confines of the internet? And is ppd for some red pillers here a conscious or unconscious admittal that there is something off about red pill? If I really thought vaccines didn't work, believe that as a fact (as many red pillers claim red pill is fact) why would I hang out in a neutral vaccine debate subreddit unless I was trying to convert people (needed others to believe me) or doubted my beliefs?

You assumed a long time ago that redpillers were mentally ill and had warped views. Every post you make elicits a confirmation bias against that notion, which is ironic considering I'm fairly sure that you blame RPers for engaging in serious generalisations and a nasty misogynist confirmation bias. I am regularly and frequently engaging with TBP every day, because I am open to the idea that TRP might be too far to the opposite end of the spectrum. It's why I attend r/MensRights. But it seems you cannot accept that.

ThisWontDo · 2015-10-03T16:51:11+00:00

Is Red Pill 'tone' reflective of how real men talk or is it reflective of how disturbed individuals communicate/think?

I think, just like everything, there's a gradated spectrum. I definitely know men IRL who talk or say similar things to what I've read on TRP. I'll take a sample size from a group of male friends in college; out of 10 of them, I'd say 4/10 talk about women in a way similar to TRP, while the other 6 either have zero input on the matter or argue against those perspectives. Some are more extreme than others, and sexual success doesn't actually factor whether these guys are more likely to be TRP hateful towards women. It seems to be separated by just how much these guys define themselves and their self worth by how many women or the types of women they sleep with. It's the only correlation I can really see.

Title	The Red Pill Tone?
Author	taiboworks
Upvotes	4
Comments	97
Date	October 3, 2015 12:28 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3nc4vz/the_red_pill_tone/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-red-pill-tone.279263 https://theredarchive.com/post/279263

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