Toxic Femininity?

poppyblu · 2016-08-30T01:39:55+00:00

That's just a list of shit you hate that women have done. Not the same thing.

If toxic feminity is analgous to toxic masculinty, then it means taking traditionally feminine ideals/constructs and taking them to an extreme to prove one's femininity, or defining femininty in terms of the most toxic concepts.

Examples could be: beauty as a women's chief value. Women with eating disorders, undergoing dangerous body altering surgeries, teenage girls attempting suicide because they don't have a thigh gap, etc.

Another example: motherhood as women's "destiny" and "most important job." Mommy wars are a direct result of women going overboard to prove that their reproductive choices are the one and only way, that they're doing it better than all the other clueless bitches making the wrong choice, and it has a toxic affect on families and women as a whole.

Or on a smaller scale, women constantly compairing their children. Remember the woman in TX who hired a hit man to kill the girl who was her daughter's rival for cheerleading captain? No that's hardly the norm but we've probably all been in the room when a bunch of supermoms start talking about developmental milestones and SAT scores, and the claws come out.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2016-08-30T00:20:00+00:00

Feminists call toxic femininity "female socialization." It functionally means the same thing. Radical feminists interestingly fight against it, so...

lollygagyo · 2016-08-30T04:17:53+00:00

u/poppyblu's post is great. Perfect description.

For fictional examples, see GoT: *Cersei (uses sexuality as a weapon, takes notions of motherhood to extremes, overly focused on beauty etc). *Sansa Stark at the start of the narrative (wants to be rescued, wants a prince at any cost, identity tied to lover and not self-derived, plays 'learned helplessness' and vulnerability as part of a role to manipulate others and seem more feminine)

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-08-30T00:20:05+00:00

-Expecting men to always protect you, even if they sustain bodily harm doing so, while taking no precautions to protect yourself.

People trained to react in an emergency protect those with a freeze response? Misandry!

We should be focused on training more people to react properly in an emergency, period.

Thinking maternity leave absolves you from being held back at the workplace.

Workplaces can't be bothered to allow their workers to have functional lives. Sacrifice all, for those sucking all the money to the top, or stand accused of misandry!

Always believing the woman's side of the story (in rape or assault cases for example).

How dare you not behave like a juror! Misandry!

Wow, we can accuse most of the internet of hate crimes if we include this kind of thing. Including masculine men.

I think toxic femininity is more about those who make the accusation.

Believing "mansplaining" is a thing.

Hahaha, you should watch all the guys who actually do this. I've seen guys here tell the women posting that they can't possibly understand what they're attracted to. And this is behavior that both the right and the left do. NAMALT, but those who are, are annoying as fuck. (Note: It's not any better when women do the same - just not as common.)

Back to the real thing:

Rather than hypocrisy, which is humanity in general -

I'd say toxic femininity is about exploiting vulnerability as a weapon - which you observe, and includes abusing shame, which you also include. Nothing about proxy violence, or manipulating someone into self-destructive behaviors? That's a big one. Nurturing behaviors can be weaponized very easily, and some feminine folk guide people on their way to destruction..

cuittler · 2016-08-30T00:42:37+00:00

Toxic Masculinity is a concept relating to how patriarchal tradition hurts and restricts men, and in turn women.

Toxic Femininity would relate to how patriarchal tradition hurts and restricts women, and in turn men.

women need to be submissive to men, minimizing women's needs and desires
a woman's greatest asset is her physical attractiveness, her value as a human being is only as important as how attractive men find her
women are childlike, weak, and need to be protected, see benevolent sexism
women are inferior in intelligence and competence, aren't fit for "men's work", incidentally the type of work that leads to greater social power and freedoms like politics, law, etc.
women are natural nurturers and the greatest role a woman can serve is wife and mother
women are driven by their emotions, aren't capable of making rational decisions
women aren't sexual/sexuality makes women "dirty", wanting lots of sex partners makes her broken because she should be "choosy"

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. How do these things in turn hurt men?

If women are believed to be less intelligent, rational and capable employers are losing out 50% of the top candidates

If women are childlike and need to be protected men are stuck with stunted women who believe it is a man's job to provide and care for them, rather than a partner who wants to pull her own weight.

If women are the natural nurturers men are expected to step back from childcare and lose out on more time with their kids because it's not their role.

If women must be submissive to men then men are never allowed to be submissive, if that is their wish (I'll try to dig it up but there was a study done awhile back showing men had nearly the same rate of rape fantasies as women). *Found it!

"I have fantasized about being forced to have sex". Women: 28.9% Men: 30.7%

If women are the emotional gender, men cannot express their emotions without being made to feel like a "pussy little bitch" because that is not their role.

If women are supposed to be "choosy" or non-sexual, men miss out on a greater number of partners and a greater amount of sex.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-08-30T01:02:31+00:00

It's kinda implied but I'd add feigned helplessness to that.

And using tears to get your way.

Also false accusations of violence to get revenge on men using society/courts knowing they'll side with you.

Oh and using children to hurt men in divorce.

AutoModerator · 2016-08-29T23:58:42+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair, just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

truthuncensored · 2016-08-30T00:56:49+00:00

That's repetitive.

GayDarGalaWhore · 2016-08-30T03:41:54+00:00

This is a great discussion.

JustBeinHonestMane · 2016-08-30T15:11:17+00:00

Not much of a surprise that no feminists want to discuss toxic femininity in the same way they talk about toxic masculinity.

When toxic masculinity is brought up, the topic of conversation always drifts to the worst parts of it: severe violence and rape. How many times have you heard feminists talking about how toxic masculinity is to blame for men feeling entitled to womens' bodies, men shooting up schools, men committing more violence as a whole.

But then we ask about toxic femininity, and what do the feminists bring up as their main examples of it? Stuff that hurts women. Women get eating disorders, women feel as though they should be homemakers, women feel as though their appearance is all that matters to men. There's no mention of the really bad toxic female behaviors; false rape accusations, manipulation, playing victim, proxy violence.

Id say this is just another example of feminism's gynocentrism and intellectual dishonesty. Can't discuss real toxic femininity because criticizing the sisterhood is tantamount to blasphemy unless you're criticizing the ways it hurts women.

SetConsumes · 2016-08-30T15:43:55+00:00

Toxic Femininity is femininity that hurts masculinity and/or society.

Likewise, toxic masculinity is masculinity that hurts femininity and/or society.

Two examples of toxic Femininity:

Stigmatizing competition and aggression is femininity hurting masculinity. It's feminine to want harmony and avoid competition and conflict, forcing this upon men is bad for men, goes against man's nature. You see the result of this in school and college.

Pushing the image of women being innocent and morale and men not, hurts men by enabling them being taken advantage of by women whom they believe are trustworthy and not deceptive and makes men believe that are bad or immoral by nature. Men get taken advantage of because they are not taught women's actual nature of being Machiavellian and.

An example of Toxic Masculinity would be expecting women to be strong and independent like masculine men are hurts women's femininity. By far the majority of women need a man to help guide them with difficult decisions and feel safe, protect them from men that want to take advantage of especially naive younger women(under 25).

GregariousWolf · 2016-08-30T16:27:03+00:00

Of course such a thing exists. It's not like women can't be poisonous, after all.

I'd start by establishing a binary masculine/feminine dichotomy. I realize gender exists on a spectrum, but this is a simplification for discussion purposes. In the abstract, the nature of masculine power is overt and the nature of feminine power is covert. Toxic masculinity is easily recognizable then as violence. It is the overt use of force, or the threat thereof. I believe this to be the #1 example, and I don't think this position should be controversial in this sub. So, if that is the masculine side of toxicity, the feminine side of toxicity would be the converse. Toxic femininity would be covert in nature. In other words, instead of force and the threat of force toxic femininity would encompass manipulation and deceit.

In the concrete, both are employed simultaneously to some degree or the other depending on the situation and the target and any number of other factors. If I were to look for examples, I would suggest looking at the differences in bullying between boys and girls in school. I am not an expert on sociology, but I think I am on solid ground when I state that physical bullying is more typical of males and psychological bullying is more typical of females. Gossiping, spreading of rumors, and social isolation are more typical female strategies to controlling social situations, and suggest to me a more covert nature of female aggression. With male bullying punching and kicking are the go-to. This is not to say boys don't call names and girls don't fight. Of course they do. Only that physical violence is is more typical of boys and verbal abuse is more typical of girls.

despisedlove2 · 2016-08-30T02:12:00+00:00

You have made an excellent start in listing examples of toxic femininity.

Of course, it is fair to say that today's femininity is fundamentally toxic and misandrist in nature.

DaphneDK · 2016-08-30T10:49:23+00:00

I saw an example of toxic feminity in the movie San Andres yesterday. While the guy was racing against time and going through desperate measures to save their only child from an end-of-the-world scenario, the ex-wife (whom he had also just rescued) suddenly insisted on him opening up emotionally about the death of another child which had happened some time in the past. And when he didn't comply, she got all miffed.

I wanted to strangle her.

incellington · 2016-08-30T13:20:07+00:00

Does Toxic Femininity exist? If so, what is it?

It is much more simple than all you have written here, my friend. Toxic feminity is, simply put, when women consent to fuck Chads, Tyrones and Mohammeds whilst ignoring kindly, intellectual incel males like myself.

In so doing, they pollute future generations with troglodyte "alpha" DNA, and encourage the present generation to embrace being low FTO cads, instead of men of creativity, intelligence and virtue, like myself.

SilentLurker666 · 2016-08-30T21:41:14+00:00

http://news3lv.com/news/local/man-shot-and-killed-for-not-holding-the-door-open-for-woman

Try this one?

The friend told Sampson, her father got into an argument with a woman that was upset that a door into the McDonald’s was not held open for her. The woman notified a man she was with and that man pulled out a gun and shot Robinson.

AliceOxalis · 2016-08-30T08:21:45+00:00

You've described a bunch of concrete examples but need to get at the fundamental core of what toxic femininity means. Off the top of my head I'd list EXTREME helplessness, extreme submissiveness (toxic femininity = getting raped because you literally are too submissive to say no), inability to rationalize, extreme neuroticism, extreme bipolar level extroversion, parasitic dependence on men for survival, extreme vanity (plastic surgery obsession, etc)

I'm sure there are more traits but this is a good start

Title	Toxic Femininity?
Author	Leeloooooooooooooooo
Upvotes	24
Comments	146
Date	August 29, 2016 11:58 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/50869r/toxic_femininity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/toxic-femininity.273330 https://theredarchive.com/post/273330

Comments