~ archived since 2018 ~

That's 60, not 60%.

Melodave86

May 23, 2015

589 upvotes

/r/PussyPass

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Post Information

Title	That's 60, not 60%.
Author	Melodave86
Upvotes	589
Comments	107
Date	May 23, 2015 10:43 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPass
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PussyPass/comments/36z6ec/thats_60_not_60/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPass/thats-60-not-60.960639 https://theredarchive.com/post/960639

Comments

[–]somethrows 54 points55 points56 points 11 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle 53 points54 points55 points 11 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 33 points34 points35 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Felpsy 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -19 points-18 points-17 points 11 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -8 points-7 points-6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman181 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Wildpeanut1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gnometard -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]willmaster123 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]asaasa19831 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asaasa1983-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Substance use disorder is a disease.

Addiction to crack isn't.

See the difference? Being easily addicted to something is a disease, but you can't say that the thing you're addicted to is the disease or the cause of your disease. What if I was addicted at eating red Jell-O and nothing but red and brand name Jell-O? I would be totally functionnal (maybe a bad case of diabetes, who knows!) but I would still suffer from substance use disorder wouldn't I ?

So yes addiction to a drug is a crime and not a disease. There might be an underlying cause which makes you more likely to be addicted to it but you can't be addicted to something you never tried, can you? See how your argument makes no sense when put this way? Ths is why people don't agree with you.

A woman who decides to become pregnant and doesn't seek medical treatment for her addiction to crack is basically endangering the life of her child. If, the moment he's born, he shows an addiction, a deformation, a disease or anything other adverse condition related to the CRIMINAL use of a drug, the mother should at the very very least (and that's being insanely leniant here) lose the custody of her child.

[–]Wildpeanut0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bortasz 22 points23 points24 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Levy_Wilson -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]BogWraith -45 points-44 points-43 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kylestephens54 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Bortasz 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]freedumb12311 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -11 points-10 points-9 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]freedumb1238 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -12 points-11 points-10 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]freedumb1237 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -10 points-9 points-8 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]freedumb1238 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]Apemazzle -8 points-7 points-6 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Oi, don't get sidetracked: you can't criminalise female drug addicts having unprotected sex.

Since you asked, this is my off-the-cuff rationale which I may decide to relinquish. If we grant the following parameters:

1) The woman has a disease (drug addiction) which will inevitably lead to harm towards the child if she falls pregnant

2) The woman is too poor to abort the child

3) The man is fully aware of points 1) and 2)

Then IMO, the man is partly culpable for the harm to that child. Wouldn't you feel bad if you had unprotected sex with a woman that you knew was an alcoholic (and you knew had no money), and then she gave birth to a child with severe FAS?

I mean, I wouldn't, because I live in England, where she would've had easy access to the morning after pill or an abortion clinic completely free-of-charge. But in America? I think I would feel very bad. I would feel that as a responsible adult, I should not be having unprotected sex with impoverished drug addicts, because - aside from anything else - they might not have the capacity to avoid harming their child.

[–]freedumb1232 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wouldn't be morally culpable. I might be a shitty human being for doing it

Interesting. Let's agree to disagree on this one.

And I haven't gotten sidetracked.

Actually you have. The discussion is about whether women who smoke crack during pregnancy should face criminal charges.

I'm saying that if they are addicts then they should not, because they have no control.

You're saying that they should, because they're (in many cases) still culpable for getting pregnant in the first place.

I'm saying that while they may be culpable in a moral sense, it's not something that can realistically be criminalised (the act of getting pregnant whilst being addicted to drugs). You have yet to address this point.

The comment about criminalising the men was a throwaway one meant to illustrate the point that you can't just go and criminalise every morally objectionable thing. You disagree that those men have even done something morally objectionable, which is your opinion, fine, but it's not relevant to the main discussion.

[–]willmaster1231 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trivialretort1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Deathfrompopcorn 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_Love_To_Antagonize 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pinworm45 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand this mentality but she commited a crime. I don't care what the law saws, bringing a person into this world with that that addiction is a fucking crime. It is a crime, period. If you're on meth, use a fucking condom. It's not fucking hard. Get on the pill. You have a million options. Places give free condoms. I know some dipshit is going to say "well durp condoms cost money, bus costs money". AND THAT IS OUTWEIGHED BY BRINGING A DRUG ADDICTED BABY INTO THIS WORLD? FUCK YOU. Being an addict does not absolve you of all responsibility. The birth of a drug addicted child can not be brushed asside as a "minor error" as if all the mother did was steal a twenty from her sister. No. Unacceptable.

Doing such an unimaginable thing deserves consequence. With one million, clearly some form of disincentive is required. Clearly the current method isn't working. While I'm almost always in favour of less criminal punishment, not here, not in this case. It almost seems as if it's about protecting women. UH HELLO THEY JUST RUINED THE LIFE OF SOMEONE THEY CREATED, or at least made it a lot more difficult than it ought to be. Having a birth defect (unrelated to meth or drugs) I know how much it blows to be born with something unfortunate. When it's by choice, that should be a crime. It's deliberately causing harm because it is so easy to prevent. It is no different than sneaking into someone elses house every night and giving them a shot of drugs. It is forcing it upon someone else. If doing that was a crime, there is no reason this shouldn't be considered equally as serious

[–]shitinmyunderwear 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Melodave86[S] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sparkleworks 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]JJWattGotSnubbed 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmwToGallifrey 14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]KaonPlus 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]asaasa19831 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JJWattGotSnubbed 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmwToGallifrey 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Psandysdad 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]asaasa19832 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TBFProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Our world may well be inherently deterministic. It may be that all of our actions are the patterned interactions of billions of random chances. Or, it may be that we actually have control and free choice despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Whilst the answer to that philosophical question is very interesting and useful, it doesn't overturn society's dependency on holding people accountable for their actions. You are still responsible, even if you couldn't have done otherwise. Our understanding of the problem allows us to better prevent it, or to prevent recurrence. It allows us to institute rehabilitation as a form of criminal sanction.

Ideally all crimes would be addressed with rehabilitation of some form. They would still be crimes and the freedom of the convict would still be restricted until the rehabilitation was complete.

[–]anon22_-3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Terminal-Psychosis 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Squiggledog 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]snell_kille9 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Melodave86[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]snell_kille18 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]aakksshhaayy 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PeterPorky 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]fulanomengano 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]spirit_spine 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]spirit_spine -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]fancyhatman18 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Wildpeanut1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brutinator 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]the_mighty_skeetadon 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apemazzle -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]lolwatman -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]spirit_spine 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lolwatman 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

To become a crack-addicted mother implies bad decision after bad decision, after bad decision.

I agree education is very important but I can guarantee you that most of these mothers are well aware of the effects that hard drugs have on children, and child birth. It's more-so the fact that they are so addicted, they just don't care. My mother treats these people every single day and that's the morbid reality of hard drugs, they really have no regards for their actions.

Addiction is a definitely a disease, but at a certain point people need to be held liable for their actions. It's also important to note that a good portion of drug addicts are educated people, so it's far more complex than simply educating people about the effects.

Of course in a perfect world everyone would be educated about drugs and pregnancy. I think being pragmatic is important though, the situation here is not necessarily the drugs or the pregnancy, but both holistically because a parent is having their bad decisions directly affect the rest of a child's life.

[–]Apemazzle -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheFleshBicycle -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trivialretort1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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