Crying

loneliness-inc · 2019-04-29T15:42:10+00:00

Specifics regarding crying is somewhat cultural, I therefore won't comment on that. Instead, I want to comment on the broader subject of reward and punishment in communication.

Every human interaction ever communicates something to the person with whom we interact. This is even more so with someone as close as a spouse. Even non responses are also responses. Everything sends a message. The only question is: what message are you sending and is it the message you intended on sending?

Every person needs togetherness and separateness in a relationship. People differ in quantity and quality and type of togetherness and separateness, but everyone needs both.

Example: one spouse might not be able to fall asleep in the same bed as anyone else while the other requires sleeping in the same bed to feel close. How to reach a compromise is beyond the scope of this comment, I'll focus on the unspoken message being communicated. Let's say the husband needs space to sleep and the wife needs to cuddle up to him to feel close. If he says: I need to sleep on a separate bed, she may hear: I don't want to be so close to you. If she says: I need to snuggle up to you to feel close, he may feel smothered and that she isn't respecting his need for space.

Same with every interaction. Messages are being conveyed and they aren't always the message we intended on conveying. Now to your specific scenario.

Men generally like to fix things. Men also really dislike prolonged female crying / emotional outbursts / meltdowns / tantrums /etc. There are two general ways that women go about leaning on their men during times of emotional distress.

He's a shoulder to cry on endlessly. She uses his shirt to wipe her tears. He sits with her for hours listening and trying his best. He offers and gives her a massage. He takes care of extra chores to make things easier for her.
She leans on his shoulder to cry and/or express emotions, but she's conscious not to carry on and on and on. She is appreciative of his time and effort and she actually calms down, feels better and gets into a happier mood as a result of his efforts. His being her rock in tumultuous waters makes her feel warm and fuzzy and emotionally connected to him, resulting in sweet love making either right away or within the following few hours.

In the first way, she may feel better but he will feel like an emotional tampon. He'll feel utterly drained and used. He may put up with it out of duty but resentment will surely build. Guaranteed. In this mode of operation the message he receives is: my emotions are king and you are here to serve me. I'm entitled to your time, energy and effort and you're supposed to provide endless support with nothing in return and you better not complain!

In the second mode of operation, he's given a chance to actually fix something, to help her calm down and cheer up in a tangible way that doesn't sap endless time and energy. He's rewarded with appreciation and greater intimacy. She gets her needs met and he's more than happy to meet them.

When men are emotionally supportive, they have the second mode of operation in mind. One that's of mutual benefit. Sadly, too many women travel down the first path, alienating their men in the process. Causing unnecessary hurt and resentment because of their selfish entitlement.

It's up to you to choose which behaviors you'll reward and which you'll punish. In every interaction, you're either rewarding him and thus encouraging more of said behavior or you're punishing him and giving him reason to eventually stop said behavior.

observantpariah · 2019-04-29T03:58:20+00:00

When women I've been involved with have cried I've taken it in one of two ways:

1) I'm uncomfortable because I feel like I'm responsible for it and I'm expected to concede and apologize until it stops.

2) I'm supportive because I know it has nothing to do with me and I feel honored and loved that I'm trusted enough to see her at her most vulnerable.

There's nothing in between those two extremes. Crying in front of someone automatically sets up a victimhood narrative. If you're on her side of the divide.... you get closer. If you're on the other side though, it actually stands in the way of successful resolution. It shifts the focus of meaningful conversation from actual issues that need to be addressed and makes her emotional state take center stage as the problem that matters. I'm not saying that it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation that addresses serious issues when you're crying, but it is important to establish that you don't get a pass for your vulnerability.

Kara__El · 2019-04-29T02:45:41+00:00

My husband grew up on a cattle ranch. It wasn't just understood that men didn't cry, but that women didn't cry either. Children and people who've just lost a loved one cry. Of course, this wasn't actually spoken, just the law of the land.

I, on the other hand, cry all the damned time. I used to be hard as nails, but meeting my husband made me feel more comfortable being vulnerable, because he is surprisingly good with my tears. For instance, animals are currency to him, but I can't watch a show or read a book where an animal dies, without bursting into tears. Early in our relationship, we were watching The Walking Dead, and it suddenly panned over to a zombie eating a goat. I started crying and while he did laugh a little, he was also very sweet. I figure if he can respect how I deal with emotions, I can respect how he deals with them, i.e. not crying ever.

During a fight? If I cry, he almost always immediately feels terrible and apologizes. I know that and refuse to abuse it. I try very hard not to cry, if we're arguing, as it derails the conversation. It pays off, because he knows I'm not attempting to emotionally blackmail him, if I do.

As for your marriage, have you considered some form of counseling, like a marriage retreat? Thirteen years is a long time. It's not a sign of weakness to refresh your communication skills.

artemis286 · 2019-04-29T02:38:48+00:00

It sounds like there is a major communication breakdown here, that really would be helpful if it could be addressed. Being vulnerable and trying to express your emotions and being met with frustration, anger, and blame would turn anyone away from communicating and opening up. I cna understand with his history why that would be his natural reaction, but getting angry at someone for having emotions is not healthy. Whether that be a friend, family member, child, or spouse. Emotional intimacy is extremely important in marriage.

In my opinion, perhaps some counseling would help. To get a neutral intermediary to help navigate this issue, because it's naturally a very tense issue where emotions can easily run high.

I've always been sensitive and cry quite easily. That includes when I'm happy or laughing! But also when I'm sad or frustrated. My husband is incredibly attentive, and immediately rushes to my side to comfort me or just listen if that's what I need. He is physically incapable of ignoring me when I'm distressed. Of course, we have built that on a foundation of trust, I've never used it to be manipulative, and allow him to help me and don't shut him out or push him away. So as much as he doesn't like me to be hurt or upset, it makes him feel good when he's able to help and support me.

I don't know exactly what the RP viewpoint is, but I'm personally of the opinion that a man can be a captain and a leader in the home, and still be capable of healthy communication and emotional intimacy. One does not eliminate the other. I've seen plenty examples of that in my own life, including in my own marriage.

I'm studying marriage and family is my college major. And from everything I've studied, healthy communication and emotional intimacy are key to any marriage, regardless of the dynamic. Dr. John Gottman has written and done some amazing work with communication, and I'm a huge fan of his book, "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work." It would be great starting place to understand the communication pitfalls that are happening, and potential solutions.

padpump · 2019-04-29T15:35:04+00:00

Emotions are contagious. In general the saying goes: “Shared joy is double the joy. Shared sorrow is half the sorrow.”

However you crying doesn’t actually share anything. Nothing he could do anything with. Except soaking it up. Then you may feel good, but he feels bad.

Not sure what the right answer is for you. For me meditation has been the solution. Essentially drowning all the sorrow by connecting my spiritual heart to the source of infinite love.

In theory just crying on your own is enough. But crying itself doesn’t address the root cause, it just “vents” the dissatisfaction.

Zegiknie · 2019-04-29T16:21:06+00:00

Amusement / amused mastery. He will hold me, but with a twinkle in his eye

I married a sadist 😅

mrgrthale · 2019-04-29T14:12:35+00:00

Hi super-sensitive girl over there 🙋🏼‍♀️

I’ve been with my boyfriend for one year and a half and we’re both 21. I tend to be extremely sensitive and emotional and I cry an awful lot, especially when I’m on my period.

I don’t think crying is bad or manipulative, and I think crying is a normal and healthy way to show your emotions to your partner, especially your husband of several years. I would say crying is not an issue on a red pill perspective and it shouldn’t be. To me, RPW is about building a meaningful and strong relationship with your boyfriend/partner/husband, and within a meaningful and strong relationship, showing and sharing your emotions and thoughts should be normal and even part of the routine.

However, I can get why he feels ill at ease when you’re crying, if he’s been raised in an environment where crying was used against him, then he could easily think that you’re trying to manipulate him when you cry. Maybe the first thing to do would be to explain to him that it’s your way to express and share your emotions with him, and that you don’t dare to talk to him about what matters the most to you anymore, because you’re afraid you’ll cry, etc. Telling him the truth should make him realise it’s important and this needs to be changed in your relationship. You could also tell him you want to share this kind of intimacy with him, and tell him that you think it would make the two of you closer if you were more eager to share your feelings. If you think that having a talk with him about this would make you cry, I would advise you to write him a letter. With a letter, you’ll ne able to think wisely about your words and it will give him time to process the information and prepare a response to you.

If you decide to write him a letter about this (or to talk with him about this), you could give him examples of what he could do when you cry, so he would feel more comfortable when it happens. Whenever I cry (which is often), my boyfriend stops doing whatever he was doing, invites me to sit on my bed, and takes me in his arms. When I’m crying, he does nothing but listening and hugging me, and this is more than enough. This way, I feel safe, cared about and listened to. Then, he shares his opinions about what made me cry, and gives me his insight on the topic. That’s it. Nothing extravagant, nothing complicated.

Your husband could hold your hand when you’re crying, he could hug you, he could serve you a glass of water, or giving you a tissue. Just small and simple gestures that would make you feel safe. I think he should also listen to you, to what made you feel this way, and come up with a solution. I know men feel best useful when they provide solutions to their loved-ones, so he could make suggestions that would help you solve the situation. Don’t forget that men and women expect different things when they have an issue : women expect to be listened to, and men expect to find a solution.

I truly hope this helped you, and I hope you and your husband will find a solution and be closer to each other ✨

reddishrobin · 2019-04-30T14:32:14+00:00

My SO instantly goes into protector comfort mode which is one of the many things I love about him. I hope you manage to find a balance where you can talk to him about important issues.

Fridgemagnetman · 2019-04-29T12:44:30+00:00

Apologies if my male opinion isn't welcome here, I respect that this is a space for RPW, That said I give my view of crying.

Crying is acceptable and even welcome but only if it's paired with action. There's no point getting upset about a situation if you're not going to take action to rectify said situation.

If my partner is throwing her self a pity party, I'm not attending but if she's going to have a cry and then we work on the problem I am there for her 100%

Theendisnearornot · 2019-04-29T03:14:55+00:00

It’s very important to be able to understand his reaction so that you understand what his boundary actually is.

The reason you feel like you can’t talk about emotions is because he’s done a poor job explaining his boundary. Talking to him about emotions or personal problems is fine. Your response to his distaste of crying shouldn’t be to clam up. Instead you need to figure out how to talk to him without it getting his guard up.

He sounds pretty red pill and so he doesn’t want emotions to sway fact. Can you talk to him without crying? That is the first step. Acknowledge and express your feelings without acting them out.

It’s not your feelings that turn him off, it’s what he sees as a lack of control that is turning him off. Tell him your feelings, don’t act them out, and try to stay logical. Emotional hamstering is one thing all RP men hate.

Title	Crying
Author	Theendisnearornot
Upvotes	14
Comments	26
Date	April 29, 2019 2:01 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/biixyw/crying/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/crying.236556 https://theredarchive.com/post/236556

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