Forget "alpha" and "beta", focus on value.

Occams_Shiv · 2014-05-13T16:13:13+00:00

My own life experience contradicts this. When I was in my 20s I was very pretty. Model bone structure. over 6'. Very thin. Soft feminine features. Lean muscle, but not a lot. I mostly ran and did body weight exercises. I had low confidence though, and always felt younger than my age. I had terrible luck with women, largely because I was the fucking Nice Guy king. If you cut me, I bled blue.

Now, in my mid thirties. Still good looking, but not "pretty" by any stretch. A couple years ago I was working on a job with constantly unlimited catered food, and I developed a pretty sizable gut for the first time in my life. I also grew a beard as every man in my field in a position of authority has a beard for some reason. If you put my picture on tinder, I would be ignored like the plague.

In real life, I got way more attention from women, in a much more forward and sexually aggressive way, than I ever had before. This was super confusing to me, since I was ashamed of the way I looked. I asked some women I knew that I had known for a long time, and they said I was much more attractive than I ever had been before. They said i looked healthy. (I was not healthy) and stronger. (I was weaker than I had ever been.)

The conclusion I came to was that the fat added to my total body mass, and made me look about 10 years older. Both of which gave me a perceived authority I had never had. This is what they were responding to.

I lost the weight and started eating right and working out, because I didn't like the way I looked or felt. But the lesson stayed with me, and was one of the first glitches in the matrix that would make me start to question everything I had been told, and lead me to the red pill.

I won't go as far as advocating that everyone get fat, but I think physical size, no matter the tissue type, can communicate alpha status.

So lift, but don't starve. Get bigger, get stronger, and let the ladies and the calendar models worry about their body fat percentage.

From the perspective of a woman, I don't think there is a difference between alpha and value. This makes evolutionary sense.

IllimitableMan · 2014-05-13T15:40:51+00:00

but aesthetics - well-dressed, low bodyfat,

Good teeth as well. Depending on your social class (especially if you're English, like me) perfect teeth may not be possible (LOL) but do your best to maintain your teeth, once you become a teenager/adult gum recession is very common and being too pussy shit to go to the dentist can fuck with your smile/oral health.

are really underrated on this subreddit.

I've had a draft blog post sitting on my site for awhile about the importance of looks and how despite anyones handicap they should look to maximise their potential. Your aesthetics are a sphere of influence when it comes to power, and if you've ever read anything I've written you'll see I take something of a "power approach" to SMV, that is to say, women are attracted to power sexually, men are attracted to power to get women and to have the freedom to exert their will upon the world and effectively it is acquiring different forms of power which makes someone higher SMV (sexually and socially) anyone who thinks looks are irrelevant is a fool. Patrice O'Neal had all the game in the world but negligence over his personal health killed him. I'll see if I can get my piece published today and then bounce it off this post to reinforce the importance of looks and help increase the signal-to-noise.

distinct jawline

Part genetic part body fat, some guys have great jawlines but their body fat is hiding it. Other guys are low body fat but just do not have a distinctive jawline. If you have a low metabolism get into the habit of jogging daily. If you're a skinny little ectomorph who can't put mass on do very little cardio for the sake of keeping your body's endurance up and dirty bulk. If you're socially anxious listening to music on your jog will help, once you work up a sweat and your body releases chemicals you'll give less fucks about other people around you. Leave that comfort zone.

I feel like this sub is obsessed with being alpha, but should focus far more on being high value.

Those who understand TRP better and have been here awhile realise that being high value is the ultimate objective, whilst on a micro scale you have to apply alpha and beta behaviour to match the situation, we call this "calibration", you calibrate your demeanour to the interaction based upon the person you're dealing with and what you hope to accomplish, being recklessly alpha is almost as bad as being recklessly beta, guys who are pussies and guys who are permanently angry are not social butterflies, both are outcasts/frowned upon but for different reasons. You'd want the angry guy on a night out with you for instance, but you wouldn't want him sat next to you in a business meeting fucking up a deal with his short fuse.

TVTestPattern · 2014-05-13T16:38:37+00:00

Cameron has never been in love - at least, nobody's ever been in love with him. If things don't change for him, he's gonna marry the first girl he lays, and she's gonna treat him like shit, because she will have given him what he has built up in his mind as the end-all, be-all of human existence. She won't respect him, 'cause you can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work.

lightfire409 · 2014-05-13T17:09:11+00:00

There was a post on here a few months back about "fat game". A near 300 pound dude had 3 plates who were supposedly fitness models. HE explained the difference between his game and others, and emphasized how despite his overweight, he kept himself very hygenic and clean, as well as not taking shit from anyone. And he got women.

I mention this because I believe you underestimate the fact a mans attractiveness is inherently tied with his behavior and demeanor. Usually a clean appearance is an indicator of a guy having behavioral traits attractive to women but i guarantee you a neckbeard who suddenly because super alpha (which would be near impossible for a number of psychological reasons) could get women.

Link: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/559457

Rainymood_XI · 2014-05-13T18:03:56+00:00

For example, take an overweight, acne-ridden neckbearded gentleman wearing an old XXL World Of Warcraft tshirt and give him every alpha trait possible. Confident, leader, passionate, dominant, funny, entertaining. Makes lots of money, has hobbies, very social. He'll still have near a 100% rejection rate, despite possessing all the "correct" alpha traits.

That's because girls have a certain standard. The standard is often lower than people think, especially on 'normal' girls (e.g. girls that people would rate 5-7.5). If he would groom the beard and dress well/not be morbidly obese I am sure there is/are some girls might be into him, which he can use as leverage, after all, it's a number's game.

redpillschool · 2014-05-13T16:38:36+00:00

Pretending that your goal isn't sexual success is a great way to feel better about yourself when you fail.

Tell yourself it's about feeling good in your clothes and in your skin, and it's all about you (boy power), fine by me.

For those who rather set lofty goals and strive to achieve them or recognize failure, I understand that embracing alpha and beta traits, utilizing them, and giving them the proper respect in my mind-space will lead me to better results than telling myself comfortable lies to shield me from failure.

So, choose your own adventure:

Comforting lies. Go to page /r/sedudction.
Reality. Go to /r/theredpill. Try again.

Khazrihl · 2014-05-13T16:40:18+00:00

In case you fucking forgot, 'tall' isn't something you can 'focus' on. You either got it or yah don't.

garlicextract · 2014-05-13T17:02:52+00:00

For example, take an overweight, acne-ridden neckbearded gentleman wearing an old XXL World Of Warcraft tshirt and give him every alpha trait possible. Confident, leader, passionate, dominant, funny, entertaining. Makes lots of money, has hobbies, very social. He'll still have near a 100% rejection rate, despite possessing all the "correct" alpha traits.

Is that really true though? I'm not sure it is. If he has all those things, he will have some success. Yes, they won't be getting any supermodels but "100% rejection rate" is highly unlikely for any man with those traits, unless this guy is really pizzaface extreme and just insanely ugly on top of that.

Your flip side example is very true though. Zac Efron, Justin Beiber types will get mad pussy regardless of how beta they are.

left_one · 2014-05-13T17:07:35+00:00

[permanently deleted]

MJDeebiss · 2014-05-13T15:18:57+00:00

I agree. Too much is put toward seeming alpha than making yourself a higher quality person. Not to say that there aren't posts to that effect BUT most seem game oriented or honestly too aimed at getting girls (not that that isn't a main draw to TRP). I would just focus on being the best and happiest you can be, personally. Pointers for talking and dealing with girls in general are important but the endgame should be a better you. Alpha me is what I am working on by hitting goals with my workouts, my hobbies, my passions and my money. Girls can take a backseat to that all day (and then ill take them in the backseat? J/k...but I know getting laid is an end goal for a lot of people. It should be a side effect of being a better you.)

2014-05-13T15:19:24+00:00

Developing value is real and should bring with it natural confidence.

Faking confidence can lead to new experiences which will help, but it can also scream insecurity if over done, so it must be done with care.

stillnoturday · 2014-05-13T15:28:10+00:00

I agree, everything is connected though at least in my experience it is. I see someone who is overweight and not taking care of themselves they usually dont have the drive or will to have alpha traits mainly confidence.

I just see people that think they can "game" their way into any girl, which that is the biggest load of bullshit ever.

You want to be desired, then make yourself desirable do the hard things, lifting/running/not eating shit. We are a shortcut culture that expects and demands instant gratification we forget that somethings take work.

circlhat · 2014-05-13T18:05:32+00:00

Please every read the full post, Most people don't read the full post and miss what he is trying to say.

OP is not talking about high quality, he is saying redpillers stop treating women like crap and just look better.

And, according to the rules and regulations of being alpha, I have to dominate her, be cold to her, treat her like garbage. Be borderline abusive and domineering.

This is a quote form the OP, he is saying being alpha doesn't matter, and for redpillers to stop treating women like crap.

We all know this is not the case and being alpha is just as important as looking good.

Good looks without being alpha is like a car without gas, you can still live in it; but you can't go anywhere.

feldspath · 2014-05-13T18:58:31+00:00

There's only so much you can do in the aesthetics department: go to the gym, get nice clothes, eat right. Once this is taken care of, the only way to improve your game is to develop alpha traits.

needathrowawayplease · 2014-05-13T19:01:15+00:00

The important distinction is about things you can change vs what you can't.

'Alpha' behaviors can be learned which is why they receive a lot of emphasis here. So does physical fitness and career.

Something like facial aesthetics or height aren't changeable and with these sorts of things the sooner one accepts one's self the better.

The biggest thing is that it's relatively simple to get in good shape or to dress well. It's a lot more difficult and nuanced to act as an 'alpha' socially and behaviorally, so it makes sense that that's what this sub focuses on.

remember13 · 2014-05-13T19:13:08+00:00

"um... hi... you're really pretty... sorry girls make me nervous... um what's your name?"

Man, this chat-up line says confidence, humbleness and also gives the girl validation a small amount of validation just to awake her interest. If the guy is just average looking and in his twenties he could pick-up a lot more girls with this routine than with all the PUA shit there. Why? Because it screams this dude is genuine.

But make no mistake- I do not condone this. And a more confident approach will always have more success if the guy is genuinely confident. Also this routine reeks of NiceGuy^TM.

saaadfaaace · 2014-05-13T23:53:24+00:00

He'll still have near a 100% rejection rate, despite possessing all the "correct" alpha traits.

Implying being ripped as fuuark isn't an alpha requirement.

Implying being overweight isn't a clear symptom of a lack of motivation, self-control or discipline. All of which is what makes you a better (more alpha) person.

edit: Faggot

jconnor0426 · 2014-05-14T00:25:17+00:00

I would disagree. What I've gotten from TRP is that by investing in yourself, and understanding the true nature of women, you will succeed in all of your ventures.

All of the other comments feel like they are just arguing semantics. In TRP, Alpha status is like Nirvana. Its when by the very nature of lifting, taking care of yourself, having good finances, not putting women on a pedestal, and being an interesting guy, comes together and gives you a natural sort of confidence that we call alpha.

The very best part of TRP is that it is about investing in yourself, raising your SMV and not waiting for a girl or anyone to take the lead.

tl;dr You are misguided in thinking that you can act Alpha. Alpha is a state of mind that comes from investing in yourself and increasing your "value".

candyman420 · 2014-05-14T00:53:23+00:00

He'll still have near a 100% rejection rate, despite possessing all the "correct" alpha traits.

Don't think so, confidence is everything, unless you're like morbidly obese with a morbidly disgusting face.

cooltrip · 2014-05-14T10:29:38+00:00

Alpha fucks, beta philosophizes.

The only important thing, the only Alpha trait, is being good looking.

Anatomical Alphaness will give you behavioral Alphaness too (in fact, if you are handsome, then it doesn't really matter how you act); but behavioral Alphaness won't give you Anatomical Alphaness.

LOOKS.

If you'll have to spend any effort into your self-improvement anyway, then anatomical self-improvement is a much better investment than behavioral self-improvement.

Your behavior is not what triggers the female behavior favorable to yourself; it is your looks, very specially in the carousel/store window age.

merkmerk73 · 2014-05-14T16:04:50+00:00

I feel like this sub is obsessed with being alpha, but should focus far more on being high value.

Amen brother.

Let's be real - there is a ton of hate that gets flung around on this forum with internet alphas trying to out-alpha other internet alphas and everyone is so quick to jump on someone elses shit and proclaim BETA BETA BETA!!! Haha you're a beta!! Not an alpha like me!

If you're a real alpha you don't need to shit on other posters here because you think some hardline "get tough pussy" approach makes you alpha.

harkrank · 2014-05-13T17:58:10+00:00

Being well-dressed, fit and clean helps you, but not anywhere near the way game helps you. Can you be fit and score if you have no game? Yes, if you are world class fit. Can you be good looking and score if you have no game? Yes, if you are world class good looking. Can you be rich and score if you have no game? Yes, if you are extremely rich.

Can you be none of the above and score if you have game? Yes.

On the contrary this sub focuses too much on career and fitness. Everybody knows how to get fit and how to save money, there's no need to discuss this. What a lot are clueless about is game. Game is also what helps you the most. I know, because I was rich and well-dressed and it didn't do a damn thing for me. Today I'm not rich but I've gotten rid off beta behavior and I get laid and interactions with girls are fun instead of frustrating.

PlusGoody · 2014-05-13T18:43:19+00:00

OP -- you clearly don't spend enough time in places where rich, dominant and passionate men are abundant. If having a hot woman is a priority for them, they have a hot woman, no questions asked, the fat and ugly ones included. In fact, the fat and ugly ones are often MORE likely to have the hot women, because for an ugly dude a hot woman is an important signaling tool. A very good looking successful guy can indulge other priorities.

Bottom line is that rich dominant men are a far rarer commodity than hot women, and the market organizes itself accordingly.

drqxx · 2014-05-13T19:21:14+00:00

BE THE BEST YOU

That you can be and you will be surround by those of similar quality.

ashastry · 2014-05-13T20:12:37+00:00

Value is how you attract women. Alpha-traits are how you keep them (in check).

steadymotion · 2014-05-13T20:38:35+00:00

Forget alpha, beta, and your value. Focus on her value. Whether she's good enough for you. You as a man are already good enough how you are. Your job is to find the females worthy of you, and then pursue them relentlessly until you have amazing sex.

All that matters to you should be her value. Your value is a given, you already know you're valuable. She is a stranger who you don't know yet. When it comes time to have sex, you're only going to enjoy it when you find her so incredibly sexy that you just lose yourself in the moment and allow your inner self to flow freely. And ultimately, we're all doing this because we want those godly feel-good moments of amazing sex. The only way to have those moments is to screen for her value.

2014-05-13T23:50:50+00:00

Traits show correlation with alpha and/or beta but they are like all stereotypes generally true. But that isn't how I define alpha at all because for me an alpha knows when to be beta and when to be alpha. Actions are tools and at the end of the day, Alpha is knowing and executing the correct play in every environment. That is not something you can easily do.

HitchSlap92 · 2014-05-14T05:14:29+00:00

Thank you OP, I've been saying this for a while now. Glad to see I'm not alone.

ruboski · 2014-05-14T10:09:54+00:00

I'd agree with you but Zac Efron is 5'7

youssarian · 2014-05-14T15:24:43+00:00

How do you dress well? I haven't got the slightest clue where to even begin with it. My choice of clothes is pretty plain - I dress in what's cheapest - and I don't know where to change.

jagrmeister721 · 2014-05-14T18:38:12+00:00

Value is subjective. If you get tatted up, that will appeal to a reasonable number of women. It won't however, make you a better person in any way and could actually disadvantage you in professional relations. If you want to be "successful" with women, aim for SMV - the traits that women are viscerally drawn to. As Occams writes on this thread, it can be random like gaining weight to have perceived authority. Or you can focus on Actual Value- like learning useful skills. But don't expect a woman to "validate" you for learning, let's say, how to file a provisional patent.

Value is subjective. It depends on your goals. There is intersection between SMV and AV, but given women's behavioral regression when it comes to mate selection (thanks to feminism's erosion of traditionalism), the overlap is less and less.

Maeth2501 · 2014-05-19T14:26:58+00:00

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.fr/2011/03/socio-sexual-hierarchy.html

My_Post_Is_On_Topic · 2014-05-13T15:01:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

circlhat · 2014-05-13T15:48:55+00:00

well-dressed, low bodyfat, clear skin, tall, etc - are really underrated on this subreddit.

No it isn't, its overrated if anything.

He'll still have near a 100% rejection rate, despite possessing all the "correct" alpha traits.

Not with a million dollars, and not if he is hitting on a over weight girl.

I feel like this sub is obsessed with being alpha, but should focus far more on being high value.

High value is easy, most guys have this, they have the job, they look decent, they have a car , but they still can't get girls, because they aren't alpha.

Society tells men to this, they don't tell men to be alpha. Attraction for a men isn't just based on his looks, so having a balance is important.

yummybits · 2014-05-13T15:50:27+00:00

LOL.
I actually think that those things that you mentioned are OVERRATED in this sub, quite a bit actually, especially with the new wave of people coming here.

Good looks, aesthetics != higher value. They can only help you a bit with self-confidence.
Accomplishments, status, money, actually making something out of yourself == higher value.

Remember, women are a side effect, NOT the goal of self improvement.

Title	Forget "alpha" and "beta", focus on value.
Author	My_Post_Is_On_Topic [recovered]
Upvotes	79
Comments	112
Date	May 13, 2014 2:54 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/25gahw/forget_alpha_and_beta_focus_on_value/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/forget-alpha-and-beta-focus-on-value.15362 https://theredarchive.com/post/15362

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