I've yet to hear a valid answer to this question on the "$.77 to every $1" wage gap stat.

CyricYourGod · 2014-07-12T16:32:31+00:00

Statistics are bullshit. You would think the statistic is a comparison of men and women working the exact same job with the exact same qualifications and number of hours worked... but it's not. The wage statistic is an average of all wages in all jobs. It ignores the lifestyle choices of men and women in the workplace. It's possibly one of the worst lies of this generation and thus you'll never get any intelligent argument saying that that this myth isn't a myth because there's absolutely no truth in the statement.

There are many videos on the subject, some more academic than others, but a good one to start with is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow

Alex_is_not_on_fire · 2014-07-12T17:12:06+00:00

I actually analyzed some wage data this past semester for an econometrics class.

Once you control for things like education, occupation, experience, race, marriage, and a host of other factors, you get that the wage gap is at most 2-5%, but still statistically significant.

Interestingly enough, if you look at raw numbers for people under the age of 30 living in cities, you actually find that women make more money than men because the past several college graduating classes have had more women. So young women are better educated and then make money.

Another reason why you see this difference is because once women have children, it's more likely that they end up the primary caretaker of the child, which pretty much means that it would be extremely difficult for them to work in a lot of intense, high paying fields like investment banking, law, medicine, or at the executive level. I'd be interested in seeing some longitudinal data on women that included when they had children to see if they dropped out of the labor force at a higher rate OR switched to less demanding careers. Combined with initial differences in occupation, I'd imagine that would explain most of the wage gap.

g4zda · 2014-07-12T16:25:30+00:00

Something you will notice if you talk to feminists; reals don't matter as much as feels.

Feels are not based in logic, if a statement makes them feel better about themselves and feeds into their victim complex it's going to be accepted as reality.

On the other hand, the wage gap does exist but it doesn't take workload, education or position into the equation, it's just the total amount earned divided by the number of people so it's a lot easier for them to stick by their claims when they only have to add a word or two to a real graph.

noblepaladin · 2014-07-12T19:37:57+00:00

It has been pretty much thoroughly debunked by all honest academic studies. Note that for many types of businesses, labor costs are the highest input, and profit margins are razor thin. For example, for every $100 of profit a company sells, $60 might go to labor and $37 may go to input costs, and $3 is the profit. If they can cut labor by even 10%, or $6, then profit suddenly goes up to $9. So this business would triple profits with a small decrease in labor costs.

Everybody has heard of the 77 cent myth before, and the idea that rich men would give up double or triple profits just to oppress women is asinine. And the fact that nobody has run them out of business proves that either the wage gap doesn't exist or that the work isn't equal.

Newer studies actually show that women make more than men now.

RedBigMan · 2014-07-12T18:28:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Strongproudwoman · 2014-07-12T16:18:23+00:00

Ya I'm not sure about it either. Its also the same on 2XX subreddit, everyone on there has been raped or sexually assaulted. Girls get into this hive mind and just say shit to fit into the herd and get attention from being a victim.

soskrood · 2014-07-12T18:51:21+00:00

Here is an excellent 45 minute talk about this subject by Walter Block (an economist at loyola university). Check it out - you will probably learn more about economics in this 45 minutes than you would in any college lvl course.

The root cause is not 'feminism', but rather choices people make. Strip away the BS, and women are much more expensive employees. Their medical needs are higher, as is the risk for extended leave for pregnancy. This alone accounts for the gap.

If you control for 'never married' people, there is no wage gap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty0QXqHcQHo

2014-07-12T16:40:55+00:00

What they are really complaining about is that men make more money because men have higher status jobs, and feminists want women to have those high status jobs. Unfortunately, most women aren't willing or interested in doing those jobs, or the work in order to attain them, and so feminists are trying to force women into those careers, although it will never work.

By promoting the issue as ".77 - $1", it makes it seem to be men's fault, and garners more sympathy than saying "us women need to get equally important jobs as men in equal numbers", because saying the latter would place the blame only on themselves.

Speedson · 2014-07-12T17:41:44+00:00

on average women accept less overtime when offered, they ask for overtime less, when asked to stay late they say no more often, women ask for more days off, they take more vacation days, they take more sick days, they are late to work more often then men. of course this doesnt apply to all women, but statistically they perform less.......on average. these are all perfectly valid reasons to pay an employee less when its time to decide who gets a raise.

MyRedAccount · 2014-07-12T22:34:12+00:00

23%. You're almost a third too high.

whatsazipper · 2014-07-12T17:56:37+00:00

Workplace Salaries: At Last, Women on Top

chairmobile · 2014-07-12T18:40:25+00:00

First, the gap is only 5-7%. The 77% comes from lumping all wage-earning women in a bucket and dividing by women to find the average female salary, then doing the same with the men.

That's fucking ridiculous, because it doesn't take into account hours worked, education level, job title, or anything else. AKA you're comparing secretaries to heart surgeons and being surprised when surgeons make a shit ton more.

Once those factors are controlled for, the gap is around 5-7%. This is easily explained by facts such as: men work more overtime, men are much more likely to negotiate their salary, men are more competitive and ask for promotions more, etc.

There is no valid answer to what you are asking because the very premise, like most feminist claims, is complete and utter horseshit.

Dark_Shroud · 2014-07-13T02:56:45+00:00

I think this might be what you're looking for:

http://imgur.com/KCJNzCp

We_Are_Legion · 2014-07-12T18:23:43+00:00

If its not true, feminists should make it true.

As someone involved in making hires at a decently well-known chemical engineering company where 84% of employees are male, I'll say this;

If women want to make in-roads into this industry and destroy this "boy's club" mentality that they care so much about, the only way to do so is to get women in there. I wonder if they've considered under-cutting the men in pay as a good idea? I'm in Asia so the men actually NEED higher salaries. They are under family pressure and social obligations. Not to mention, they need it in order to marry well. Most of the women have no such pressure. Nor those who work for us have much problem finding husbands who'll provide for them(49% of our male staff is married, 83% of our female staff is).

If we could hire women for the same jobs for less, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't. Feminists would have won a great victory and with the boys' club gone, could now compete. Or even easier, claim to be righteous victims and get laws passed which make the pay forcibly equal again.

Of course, that'd require organisation of the movement and an actual interest of women in acquiring qualifications. Not to mention getting woman in large numbers to intentionally and selflessly sacrifice for a cause.

All three make me chuckle.

kizzan · 2014-07-12T20:47:07+00:00

You should post this question in the askfeminists subreddit. You are preaching to the choir here.

As a libertarian who understands the value of the free market, I fully hear and understand your argument as to why foe profit companies don't hire women at the discount.

JP_Whoregan · 2014-07-12T21:29:20+00:00

Tell you what. Let's give them the "77 cents to the dollar" line. Let's give them the assumption that it's true (even though it's not). My reply is, when women start dying in work related fatal accidents at the same rate as men, then we can start talking about "wage gaps". Until then, ladies, STFU and go back to your cushy office jobs with your donuts in the break room.

RedBigMan · 2014-07-13T01:08:13+00:00

Proper Answer

The statistic is a result of comparison of absolutes and not a comparison of factors.

Reason men make more money

Men are more likely to work more hours including overtime.
Men are more likely to work hours where there is a shift premium (IE. Midnights).
Men are more likely to be more productive than women. Effectively a man gets paid more because he gets more done in the same amount of time.
Men aren't as likely to take time off to take care of a child.
Men aren't likely to lose almost a year of potential experience in their job by having a kid.
Men are more likely to ask for a raise when they feel they deserve one

lloopy · 2014-07-13T05:24:07+00:00

Given two people with identical skill sets and in all other ways being identical, you should hire the one at the 33% discount. But they aren't identical in future risk. A woman can (and often will) get pregnant and go on maternity leave (usually paid). Then, after maternity leave is done, she might just decide that she'd rather be a stay at home mom instead of working for you any more. This means that all your training will be for naught.

Hiring a guy doesn't come without risks, but women share every single one of those risks in addition to the pregnancy one.

lloopy · 2014-07-13T05:29:06+00:00

There was another one I saw recently, talking about how much female managers got paid in a certain company compared with all the male managers. There was a 30% gap.

What the statistic didn't tell you was that the average female manager had 10 years less experience than the male manager. They had been over-promoted in an effort to equalize gender inequality in promotions during the previous 20 years.

So even when they got what they wanted, they still complained about it. The wage gap would have erased itself as the women and men got to equal experience levels (old men retiring).

TheOneWhoWokeUp · 2014-07-12T22:10:16+00:00

2 things.

Men work MORE. They choose longer hours and are more likely to work overtime.
Men work jobs that are considered undesirable, thus pay more. This is called a compensating differential.

There are surely other factors, but these 2 alone bring those amounts to be about even, and most intro to econ course will dispel this myth using these two points.

stemgang · 2014-07-12T20:40:29+00:00

Of course you are right. If you could get away with hiring women at 77% wages, it would be stupid to ever hire any men.

Yet people DO hire men, because men are productive enough to justify higher pay.

The original assertion is self-falsifying and absurd.

Gold_Leaf_Initiative · 2014-07-12T22:26:05+00:00

Well I know at my company there is total pay ambivalence, but perhaps I can explain this.

number of men vs. women in certain fields is not equal. So it follows that volume of pay to men vs. volume of pay to women in these fields is not equal, even if at the individual level it IS equal.

So for example, over 95% of all oil rig miners are male. Coal field miners. There are a large number of dirty/dangerous jobs (people who work underground in sanitation.) that are over 90% male.

So if only males are doing a certain job, then a skilled statistician can make it look like men are earning more, because they are, because they're taking jobs that other people won't. If 980 men and 20 women are doing a job fit for 1,000 people, then the men are making overwhelming more than the women depending on how you do the math. If you do it at an individual rate, then they should be making the same amounts.

In that context, it makes more sense. BTW I believe in a strict meritocracy and people should be paid for the quality and quantity of their work regardless of gender.

But I'm left wondering why there aren't more women signing up to be oil rig workers. They make fucking wonderful money.

2014-07-13T01:58:17+00:00

Women want the more comfortable, air-conditioned office jobs which just happen to not pay as much as the jobs that many men have no other choice but to take.

redpillbanana · 2014-07-13T02:56:02+00:00

This video explains it:

http://youtu.be/05ro6fcj6Ek?t=3m16s

"If they can pay women much less for the exact same work, wouldn't companies hire all women, make huge profits, and run their competitors out of business?"

"No, they're too sexist to try that."

"So corporations care more about hanging out with dudes at the office then they do about getting rich?"

"Yes, corporations aren't greedy enough."

(Hmm, I guess this is an indirect form of "patriarchy")

Killmelol12 · 2014-07-13T07:49:39+00:00

I've heard it comes from maternity leaves, lifestyle choices (taking easier jobs because they're usually the caretaker of their kids, etc.) and also because men tend to be more aggressive and assertive at work so are more competitive when it comes to promotions and assertive enough to ask for raises.

ScannerSloppy · 2014-07-13T12:42:37+00:00

It's because men work 100 hours to every 77 hours a woman works. Also, because the productivity of the average blabber mouth woman is about 77% of her male counterpoint.

benos4752 · 2014-07-12T19:52:29+00:00

Hell, even a feminist calls it BS..

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

CruiseCruise · 2014-07-13T07:02:54+00:00

Because of Patriarchy.

(ignore this, it's just here to trick the dork-bot)

CaptainFalconer · 2014-07-15T22:25:33+00:00

Here's a variety of studies http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

Elsewhere I've seen men earning higher bonuses and starting pay often attributed to men negotiating more often than not, where as women almost always don't.

Title	I've yet to hear a valid answer to this question on the "$.77 to every $1" wage gap stat.
Author	myschadenfreude
Upvotes	61
Comments	68
Date	July 12, 2014 4:13 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2aimwr/ive_yet_to_hear_a_valid_answer_to_this_question/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/ive-yet-to-hear-a-valid-answer-to-this-question-on.17839 https://theredarchive.com/post/17839

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