Limiting Belief: Being selfish

-PopeOfNope- · 2015-03-20T14:36:01+00:00

Selfish is one of those words that gets misused in a rhetorical fashion so other people can exert control over you. Like rape, the word no longer means what it says in the dictionary. The old definition is "Concerned chiefly or excessively with oneself, and having little regard for others." The new definition is putting your own concerns before the concerns of others, ever. Or, in the case of most women, putting your own concerns above hers, ever.

Being RP is NOT being selfish. The key phrase here is 'chiefly or excessively'. Looking after your own interests doesn't make you selfish. In fact, it allows you to be even more generous with your money/time/attention than you could previously afford to be.

Just like being poor is expensive and being a loser is time-consuming, always putting other people's welfare above your own is expensive in terms of maintaining your own welfare. Even the airlines encourage you to put your own oxygen mask on first, then help others. Does that make you selfish? No, it means you don't pass out before you get the chance to help others.

munky82 · 2015-03-20T15:50:25+00:00

"I'm not selfish, my time and patience just isn't cheap"

cocaine_face · 2015-03-20T14:07:15+00:00

I usually respond to attacks on my frame like this with, "Ok". Possibly with shrugging your shoulders.

Just let it roll off of you. Why do you care what they think?

Day_man2020 · 2015-03-20T14:26:33+00:00

Everyone is selfish. All the word means is that the person using it is attempting to manipulate the situation by putting you in a morally inferior position of defending yourself from the accusation of selfishness.

Accusing someone of selfishness is generally either a power play as described above or the accuser is butthurt that they can't get what they want like the target. Basically they are admitting they wish they had the balls to take what they want like you can.

You should feel a little swell of pride every time you get called selfish, it's kind of a hail marry of argument tactics. If a woman or dude is calling you selfish chances are that's all they've got nothing else to throw at you.

Redapprentice · 2015-03-20T13:41:53+00:00

I think your issue is you do not want to accept your selfish personality. Due to this lack of congruence between your emotions and your mind you display lack of confidence which makes this selfishness more noticeable.

You have to embrace your selfish personality and ignore those who call you out for that. Take it as a shit test, do not pay attention, display your selfishness through your success and don't forget that "if its a conflict between your heart and your mind, follow your mind"

Rhunta · 2015-03-20T13:34:02+00:00

I always tough that this was a shit test. So I always say:"Yep, I am the selfished man in the world." and than smile.

FactsAreFactsAndAisA · 2015-03-20T18:50:28+00:00

Its a long read but I guarantee that it is worth it. Excerpt from "The Virtue of Selfshiness" by Ayn Rand.

The title of this book may evoke the kind of question that I hear once in a while: “Why do you use the word ‘selfishness’ to denote virtuous qualities of character, when that word antagonizes so many people to whom it does not mean the things you mean?”

To those who ask it, my answer is: “For the reason that makes you afraid of it.”

But there are others, who would not ask that question, sensing the moral cowardice it implies, yet who are unable to formulate my actual reason or to identify the profound moral issue involved. It is to them that I will give a more explicit answer.

It is not a mere semantic issue nor a matter of arbitrary choice. The meaning ascribed in popular usage to the word “selfishness” is not merely wrong: it represents a devastating intellectual “package-deal,” which is responsible, more than any other single factor, for the arrested moral development of mankind.

In popular usage, the word “selfishness” is a synonym of evil; the image it conjures is of a murderous brute who tramples over piles of corpses to achieve his own ends, who cares for no living being and pursues nothing but the gratification of the mindless whims of any immediate moment.

Yet the exact meaning and dictionary definition of the word “selfishness” is: concern with one’s own interests.

This concept does not include a moral evaluation; it does not tell us whether concern with one’s own interests is good or evil; nor does it tell us what constitutes man’s actual interests. It is the task of ethics to answer such questions.

The ethics of altruism has created the image of the brute, as its answer, in order to make men accept two inhuman tenets: (a) that any concern with one’s own interests is evil, regardless of what these interests might be, and (b) that the brute’s activities are in fact to one’s own interest (which altruism enjoins man to renounce for the sake of his neighbors).

[...]

There are two moral questions which altruism lumps together into one “package-deal”: (1) What are values? (2) Who should be the beneficiary of values? Altruism substitutes the second for the first; it evades the task of defining a code of moral values, thus leaving man, in fact, without moral guidance.

Altruism declares that any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil. Thus the beneficiary of an action is the only criterion of moral value—and so long as that beneficiary is anybody other than oneself, anything goes.

Hence the appalling immorality, the chronic injustice, the grotesque double standards, the insoluble conflicts and contradictions that have characterized human relationships and human societies throughout history, under all the variants of the altruist ethics.

Observe the indecency of what passes for moral judgments today. An industrialist who produces a fortune, and a gangster who robs a bank are regarded as equally immoral, since they both sought wealth for their own “selfish” benefit. A young man who gives up his career in order to support his parents and never rises beyond the rank of grocery clerk is regarded as morally superior to the young man who endures an excruciating struggle and achieves his personal ambition. A dictator is regarded as moral, since the unspeakable atrocities he committed were intended to benefit “the people,” not himself.

Observe what this beneficiary-criterion of morality does to a man’s life. The first thing he learns is that morality is his enemy; he has nothing to gain from it, he can only lose; self-inflicted loss, self-inflicted pain and the gray, debilitating pall of an incomprehensible duty is all that he can expect. He may hope that others might occasionally sacrifice themselves for his benefit, as he grudgingly sacrifices himself for theirs, but he knows that the relationship will bring mutual resentment, not pleasure—and that, morally, their pursuit of values will be like an exchange of unwanted, unchosen Christmas presents, which neither is morally permitted to buy for himself. Apart from such times as he manages to perform some act of self-sacrifice, he possesses no moral significance: morality takes no cognizance of him and has nothing to say to him for guidance in the crucial issues of his life; it is only his own personal, private, “selfish” life and, as such, it is regarded either as evil or, at best, amoral.

Since nature does not provide man with an automatic form of survival, since he has to support his life by his own effort, the doctrine that concern with one’s own interests is evil means that man’s desire to live is evil—that man’s life, as such, is evil. No doctrine could be more evil than that.

Yet that is the meaning of altruism, implicit in such examples as the equation of an industrialist with a robber. There is a fundamental moral difference between a man who sees his self-interest in production and a man who sees it in robbery. The evil of a robber does not lie in the fact that he pursues his own interests, but in what he regards as to his own interest; not in the fact that he pursues his values, but in what he chose to value; not in the fact that he wants to live, but in the fact that that he wants to live on a subhuman level (see “The Objectivist Ethics”).

If it is true that what I mean by “selfishness” is not what is meant conventionally, then this is one of the worst indictments of altruism: it means that altruism permits no concept of a self-respecting, self-supporting man—a man who supports his life by his own effort and neither sacrifices himself nor others. It means that altruism permits no view of men except as sacrificial animals and profiteers-on-sacrifice, as victims and parasites—that it permits no concept of a benevolent co-existence among men—that it permits no concept of justice.

If you wonder about the reasons behind the ugly mixture of cynicism and guilt in which most men spend their lives, these are the reasons: cynicism, because they neither practice nor accept the altruist morality—guilt, because they dare not reject it.

To rebel against so devastating an evil, one has to rebel against its basic premise. To redeem both man and morality, it is the concept of “selfishness” that one has to redeem.

fugued · 2015-03-21T03:23:58+00:00

I get this alot, in the form of "Fugued always gets what he wants." But the subtext is that I make informed leadership decisions and push the team (girlfriend, family, coworkers, etc.) and they eventually see my point/path and follow. It's kinda like a tacit complement, like they are grudgingly accepting my direction. Contrary to any accusation of selfishness, I am exceptionally generous - with my time, money, gifts, favors. So nobody can ever pin a "selfish" tag on me. Even though, in some respects, I really, really am.

nzgs · 2015-03-20T14:56:29+00:00

Selfishness is a virtue. It really means nothing more than having self-respect. We tend to think of it as a negative trait since self-sacrifice is considered greater than self-respect by the political left. Self-sacrifice creates other people dependent on self-sacrifice. Self-respect teaches those people to fend for themselves.

badnews6string · 2015-03-20T20:24:44+00:00

It's called shaming. Ignore it. Be a better man in the long run, by making sure you are handling your business like a boss.

neomorphed · 2015-03-21T00:55:13+00:00

I've been thinking along similar lines. I do, however, believe that you can be kind and generous while protecting and prioritizing your own goals. For my personal example, I had a long term marriage and then a significant relationship fail because I lost my Alpha status...started acquiescing, failed shit tests, the usual. I did neither of those women any favors by failing to be the Alpha man they originally thought they signed up for. It would have been better for them, and me, if I had maintained frame, etc.. That would not have been selfish - it would have actually been beneficial to the women as well as myself. So I think you can treat women with honesty and respect, and even generosity while maintaining your edge, letting them know there are things you wont compromise etc. You may not give them exactly what they think they want, but you are actually being kinder by not exhibiting behavior that will drag the relationship down the drain.

PandaMania3 · 2015-03-21T08:39:17+00:00

I have thought about this before.

Think about it this way, getting recognized by someone whose a people pleaser (always saying "you go girl!","Good Job!") and by someone who is known to be selfish (only complementing when things are up to his standard).

Which actually leave you feeling satisfied?

MoneyStatusLooks · 2015-03-21T19:40:06+00:00

Its not that you are selfish that is a problem, it seems like you might be too blunt or uncalibrated. I am the most selfish person ever but literally no one ever calls me selfish. Be selfish in a way that does not alienate people or make people feel resentful towards you. You need some finese about it, I act in my own self interest 100% of the time, unless going out my way to help someone quickly/without too much effort and it doesnt cost me any/much time. In this way you build your rep without consistently being seen as an asshole.

Basically you want to be an inconsiderate asshole, but people think you are selfless. I suggest reading the 48 laws of power.

It's either that. Or that because you have changed, people are not used to the new version of you and are constantly shit testing you. If you previously being used for something from some person, then you stop, you will be shit tested, whether its male/female/family/friend/gf whatever.

HeyZeus121 · 2015-03-20T15:58:13+00:00

What is a specific example of something that you've said or done that had a close friend call you selfish? Be truthful.

EGOtyst · 2015-03-20T17:36:31+00:00

Seriously, everyone is selfish. This is a fact of life. Truly understanding peoples motivations and the facts surrounding behavior is the fundamental nature of being "Red Pill." It is why the label is what it is (remember the Matrix?)

If someone says you are selfish, ask the "Why do you think that?"

As they go on to enumerate the reasons, take note. They will almost certainly be listing scenarios in which you have chosen to not help THEM. Calling other people selfish is, almost always, a not-so-subtle projection: these people are upset that you chose yourself over them. i.e. THEY ARE BEING JUST AS SELFISH AS THEY ARE ACCUSING YOU TO BE, if not more so.

The good news about being selfish is: EVERYONE IS! This makes it pretty easy to understand their primary motivations, and makes it easy to tailor yours.

The bad news about being selfish: even though everyone is (see above), the majority of people deny it. Because of this, it is seen as a negative personality trait, and can overall hurt your social standings.

Because of this, there is a necessary need for give and take in any relationship you want to maintain. If it is not beneficial for the other person to be involved with you, in whatever capacity, then they wont maintain the relationship. Remember - they are also very selfish, and if you have less value to them, you will lose them. They will most likely (and I really don't like to use the almost cult-ish terms this sub has branded) hamster away their own selfishness at the fact that they aren't gaining anything from their relationship with you and come up with a reason to cut off ties. And you will lose a potentially valuable social contact.

The better news: being charming/likable and being 'RP' are not mutually exclusive. Being selfish doesn't mean being an asshole. The first step, as I mentioned, is realizing that EVERYONE IS SELFISH. Opening your eyes to this fact makes it much more easy to come to terms with. It isn't necessarily a negative trait, it is a natural one.

Being selfish is kinda like taking a shit. Everyone does it. Is it bad? Eh, other people's shit stinks, so sure, it can be bad. No one wants to be around someone who shits all over everything (in this analogy, that would be someone who is overwhelmingly selfish, and never reciprocates). But it is natural. Everybody poops sometimes. If you do it in the socially acceptable way, no one minds, and you can get away with it. But there is no reason to shit on your boss's desk (in this analogy, this means there is no reason to be excessively selfish if it were to damage a valuable relationship).

So, you just have to employ your selfishness at the right times, and ensure you are getting what you want. Saying "No" (to people who's relationships you want to maintain) when saying "Yes" has a small impact on your life is, in common parlance, a "Dick Move." It is also a poor long term strategy for your personal brand/social standing. It is a short-term, small gain at the loss of a lot of long-term potential. This is where TRP theory and being "Alpha" potentially come in. Through simple social engineering, you should be able to get what you want out of the relationships you chose to have/maintain. As long as you remember to make the currency broad enough, and your net balance is something you think is positive, then you win.

Make sense?

Invalidity · 2015-03-20T21:24:54+00:00

You're being labeled selfish as a test to see if you'll fold to their demands. As a guy, people will generally only exert time and effort on you if you are able to offer them something (ie. goods and/or services). But people who place their needs above others are generally more valued than people who are helpful.

Why? Because we are generally molded to believe that people offer up goods and services when they have little else to offer. Hence, they are low-value and/or low-status. If a person's time was valuable, would he be offering to help you with your superficial needs?

It's psychology at work.

TomilloDanup · 2015-03-21T01:09:18+00:00

I believe that one of the challenges of taking the pill is finding balance within oneself. As PopeOfNope said it's easy to get lost in semantics, so I just stop and think "how does this " selfish" action from my part makes me feel" and then act accordingly.

Since taking the pill I've changed into someone that likes to have fun and find amusement and laughter on almost everything. Sometimes that means I amuse myself on expense of others and It seems that I've crossed the line with some people.

It's that being selfish?? Of course. But I don't care most of the time. Never the less I believe some balance has to be achieved. I mean I can still have fun at expense of others as long as no one gets hurt.

cascadecombo · 2015-03-21T04:48:50+00:00

Being selfish is important, but you may be doing it in a socially unacceptable way.

gweneverexoxo · 2015-03-21T12:09:37+00:00

never get discouraged. in this life, being selfish is the most important trait you can master.

guilt is a horrible thing. try not to feel it, and don't let it stop you from going after what you want. just reach out and take it. worry about how other people feel later.

alot of life opportunities would pass you by if you let guilt of being called selfish hold you down. the struggle to ignore what people think of you will only get harder as you become more RP, but learn to ignore them.

darcys22 · 2015-03-21T13:04:39+00:00

You should view selfishness as good for everyone. The key point is to distinguish short term selfishness vs long term selfishness. Almost everyone speaking against it is referring to short term, and they are definitely correct to do so. But long term selfishness is very good.

Stealing, Manipulating, Lying, all those things that are typically associated with being selfish are good for you in the short term. But in the long term they come back to bite you one way or another. So a long term selfish person wouldn't do them.

Similarly gift giving, being friendly to everyone around you and helping others is bad for you in the short term. But for so many reasons is good for you in the long run.

Our society has this ideal about "giving selflessly". Jesus our saviour and the perfect human died for our sins blah blah and we should be like him. That is why there is this strong negative reaction to "being selfish". But they aren't totally incompatible.

I mean its kinda twisted to think of giving as selfish and stealing as not selfish, but the important aspect is your thinking. You want to become a man of abundance, a provider for the people around you (Only the good ones), that is what a true alpha male does. Stealing affects this because it is unsustainable and you cannot reach abundance with it. Giving is good because you are rewarding the good people in this world, therefore creating a better place (Mostly for yourself).

But if it makes things easier just think of it as khama, all actions come back to you.

The difference between being selfish and someone who gives unconditionally is that you won't ever expect anything for free off others. Thinking that everyone should give unconditionally is toxic because you eventually get pissed off when others don't.

It leads to this: "I've been really good but everyone else is selfish so I am allowed to cheat this one time"

That thought is the cancer that is killing the world.

So instead of killing our world, be selfish, because it makes you a better person who contributes more.

LordPorker · 2015-03-20T14:02:38+00:00

Tell 'em to hand over their credit card, their week's wages, or your mate's shiny new car to prove that they're not selfish.

Point being that we all are. Some even argue that altruism has it's roots based upon selfish desires.

errrzarrr · 2015-03-20T17:05:46+00:00

Selfishness is good and you should read Ayn Rand on why it is good.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-03-20T15:23:36+00:00

Heirarchy is the masculine way of living.

Feminism is about denying and destroying all forms of Heirarchy.

Their favorite devious trick is to get you to believe that the Heirarchy which places you as important in your OWN LIFE is not of value.

Lies and manipulation... it's all about them denying the truth. (and you believing them)

Elodrian · 2015-03-20T14:20:20+00:00

If you can spare a couple hours a week, you could volunteer to coach a kids team or do... whatever charitably minded people do to help out. It would benefit you insofar as now your circle of friends wouldn't be able to call you out for selfishness, what with your important charity work and all.
It mostly comes down to whether cutting the legs out from under their criticism is worth a couple hours of your time each week.

Title	Limiting Belief: Being selfish
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	35
Comments	61
Date	March 20, 2015 12:57 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2zp0y2/limiting_belief_being_selfish/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/limiting-belief-being-selfish.30443 https://theredarchive.com/post/30443

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