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How long do you remove your time, affection, attention for boundary enforcement?

unwillingone1
January 30, 2022
5 upvotes
/r/askMRP

My wife crossed a boundary (driving home drunk and in my car) this is more than once she has done this. I told her about it once before. And then she crossed it again. Begged for forgiveness.

She didn’t do it for a long time. Now she did it again last night. She lied about being drunk and said she only had two beers which was def a lie. She was slurring her words.

She comes home and starts talking to me. I say. “You’re drunk” she said, I did have 2 beers. I don’t say anything and continue what I’m doing.

She keeps talking. I say, look I’m not happy with you. We can talk tomorrow. And walk away. I hear here mumble some shit to herself. And then she goes up to bed.

I stay downstairs and put on the tv too cool off. I fall asleep. At 3 she comes down. Naked trying to cuddle and touch me. I tell her, don’t. She says whyyy. I say I’m upset with you. She says I know I’m sorry. I’m upset with myself.

Now this morning she’s trying to cuddle with me. Saying she’s sorry. But she did this last time. And still did it once again. We have a family and kids. We can’t afford her to get a DUI. Or worst.

Advice on how I handle this moving forward and how long you remove your TAA?

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Title How long do you remove your time, affection, attention for boundary enforcement?
Author unwillingone1
Upvotes 5
Comments 41
Date January 30, 2022 3:28 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/askMRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/how-long-do-you-remove-your-time-affection.1098908
https://theredarchive.com/post/1098908
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/sgbiz4/how_long_do_you_remove_your_time_affection/
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Comments

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill 17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Your boundary is only as good as what you are willing to enforce. What are you willing to enforce?

I suspect part of the problem here is your wife is naturally deceitful. I have a standing rule with my wife, and her with me, if you get in too deep, call. I made that rule very early in our marriage and made it clear to her that I wouldn't shoot the messenger, but there would be appropriate consequences.

In the short term? This cannot go without consequences. What are you willing to lose? That's your consequences.

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I told her to call me if she needed a ride before she drove. And she didn’t.

Can you explain what you mean by you won’t shoot the messenger but there would be appropriate consequences

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Anybody who comes to you bearing bad news, kids, wife, reports, etc. If you have a tendency to get angry and react to them when they do, they will bury the bad news.

Now I don't know if you have a habit of doing this, but your wife does have a habit of trying to deceive you. Why is that? Only you can answer.

I'm surprised no one has said anything but I'll put it out there. A wife who has not only come home once but twice driving drunk and risking 10s of thousands of dollars does not have her shit together. This is a major red flag. Was it a Girls Night Out on top of it? Another red flag of it was.

My advice? Don't offer forgiveness. If it was me? I'd tell her she had a choice in her life, but if she chose to drive drunk again? I would divorce her. She needs to work to rectify it, not just get forgiveness. Is she an Alcoholic? What is she doing to change her behavior going forward? What's your boundary, you still haven't answered that. Make her tell you how she's going to fix this shit.

[–]The_Red_Letters 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

100% this. The penalties for drunk driving are severe. She knows this and chooses to do it anyways. Your removing affection won’t even register compared to 10s of thousands in fines or possible jail time and she’s already ignoring this.

I would tell her she’s never using my car again and if she chooses to drive drunk again it’s divorce, no questions asked.

[–]Heeey_Reyrey 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But it still doesn't solved the problem or improving our tactical options if your only strategy is walking away, especially on what OP implied in his situation, he loves his kids, its not worth the financial hussle, and the trajectory and values-altering decisions his kids would get growing up from a divorced incomplete family.

So the question still stands, and divorce is the last ultimatum. Not some carrot or stick/ call or bluff to dangle eventually.

Edit: Apparently, reading other comments makes me understand why you guys don't provide concrete answers on this particular topic and the implications of it. Cheers!

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First, I asked what the OP would consider as a fix. Still waiting to hear what is he is willing to live with.

If we take a high level approach, you have your own "Waterline" rules. What's a waterline rule? We go back to the analogy of you being the Captain, and her as the First Officer. She may make a mistake, a "tactical" one as you put it, that maybe changes the course of the ship and now your a few days behind to your destination. Conversely, she may make a decision as first officer that puts the ship headed toward, or even "on the rocks" damaging the ship below the waterline. This is a waterline event. The ship will sink.

I cannot tell you what is or isn't a waterline event. Some things are near universal. I'd say going to jail for a felony is probably pretty universal. Diddling kids is another.

But somethings? In this case, maybe a DUI isn't. Some dudes are cool with substance abuse. Maybe she's a slob. Maybe she got fat. The list is a long one that guys are willing to put up with.

Some of those things are unspoken, and don't need to be. I don't need to sit my wife down and tell her, "If you ever go to jail because of a felony I'm divorcing you". In the case of the OP, he has clearly neglected his job as Captain because his FO is out of control. She's had at least 2 DUI potentials that we know of, and yet she still does it. I have a personal aversion to DUI's as I have a close family member who's had multiples, and has essentially lost his license for life. So to me, I see a person on a similar course, and say "No thanks".

If we go back to the First Officer again, waterline events aren't the only thing that get her fired from the job. She is a sum of her actions, and there to support your mission. If a FO is constantly altering course, constantly holding the Captain back, but it isn't necessarily the same thing as sinking the ship, she's still holding the mission back irreparably.

So what's the tactical direction you do as a Captain? What's the mission. How are you leading your wife on the mission? That should be clear to both of you.

I put my wife through college as non-traditional student. Why was that? My mission is clear, I want financial freedom, and to pass that on to my kids. My wife had always lamented she was not a significant contributor to the family financially, so I sat her down, showed her her earnings, and what they would be if she went to school and retrained. I laid out my vision of financial freedom, and how she could support it. Conversely, I also showed her how she could hinder the mission, things like stupid debt, low value purchases, etc. As a Captain, I've notice when we start to have differences, it's because she's losing track of the mission, and why is that? I'm not leading.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Known consequences are an intrinsic part of a boundary. If you don't know, beforehand, what consequences you will enforce when someone breaks your boundary, then you don't have a boundary. You may have a preference or an expectation, but not a boundary.

Because you have had here only an expectation, not a boundary with intrinsic, known consequences, you're seeking an appropriate arbitrary punishment for her, hence your butthurt-like withdrawal of time and attention.

Punishment is generally not the right model for enforcing boundaries. You hopefully have boundaries for reasons other than butthurt or ego; you have boundaries to protect your life, health, possessions, reputation, career, money, time, mission, your children, or other things that you value. Someone breaking your boundary shows that they cannot be trusted to protect your interest in that regard, so consequences are best chosen to be things that reclaim your own control and protection of your interest from the offending party, and which reduce their future ability to compromise your interest.

Whether or not it could be construed as a punishment is incidental and irrelevant.

Withdrawing your time and attention seems to me to do nothing to reclaim your control or protection of your interest here, so this is misguided punishment masquerading as a consequence. Whether the consequence should be taking away her keys to your car, her keys to her car as well, or divorcing her to separate your financial liability depends on how you assess your interests and risks in this matter, so we can't answer your question for you... But before making any such decisions you must become very clear on what a boundary truly is, what interest of yours it protects, and what appropriate, enforceable consequences are within your power and which you are truly able and willing to impose to best protect your interests.

[–]unwillingone1[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you this was very clear and informative.

I think the best plan of action is to have a talk today. Take my keys and let her know if this were to happen again. I am done taking this relationship seriously.

I am going to be honest. I am not at the point where I am okay leaving my kids. I have made this decision. I will stay living together to raise the kids and because I feel like if I can learn to handle myself around her I can do it around anyone. It’s the best practice for me.

But I would be done taking the relationship seriously. Before anyone tells me that’s stupid. I don’t care. I’m not losing time away from my kids

[–]PutABabyInThat 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The issue is that she drives drunk in your car. But instead of revoking her car privileges... your solution is to give her the silent treatment?

Does that make sense to you?

Do you know what a boundary is?

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s kind of what I’m here for. I mean she has her own car. So she’ll just drive that which is fine but it’s not enough. Not speaking to her for 2 days will her hurt a lot more than you might think

[–]PutABabyInThat 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

will her hurt a lot more than you might think

Is hurting her when she does something you don't like a new strategy?

Besides making you feel better by getting back at her when you are butthurt, has it ever been effective at anything else?

Because it sounds like she keeps driving drunk.... but yeah maybe just keep doubling the amount of silent treatment each time she crosses your "boundary". Maybe that'll work.

[–]high-end-butt-hurt 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We have a family and kids. We can’t afford a DUI or worse. Huh?

Would the boundary be different if you were just dating or engaged? A boundary is a boundary.

I had this similar problem when I met mine, her and her sister would get wasted, at home, or at each other’s house. I’m not a big drinker, the drama annoys me (ex-bouncer), and you can drink without getting wasted.

But for a couple of days afterwards, I would go radio dark, no talking and send her home. I told her “People who do that, don’t reflect that they want to be in healthy relationship”. Can you kick her to the spare room for a few days? The trailer for the divorce movie, coming soon

[–]PillUpAss 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is not a remove time and attention play. What would you do if this was your daughter (sans the naked cuddling)? Kids need boundaries and consequences applied without anger.

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I just started enforcing boundaries. Can you give me an example of what could be proper consequence other than removing time and attention. Or point me to an article that talks about this.

If this was my daughter, I’d take her car away from her. But if my daughter was out of the house. There’s not much I can do besides express my disappointment.

My wife has her own car. And this was at her work. I can’t tell her to stop going to work or to stop driving. The only thing I can control is my time and attention.

[–]PillUpAss 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

AND what you expect from the people you decide to keep close in your life. Not naming names, but we are naming roles.

Your time and attention are not effective here because (1) they are not valuable enough and (2) you are still giving both, even negative attention is still attention. On top of significant mindshare..

You know, I was just looking through your history as I wrote this to figure out if you actually have done any work. It just hit me that you are TrenGod37!

My suggestion is to stop making new accounts looking for shortcuts on askmrp and get back in OYS weekly for the next year.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can’t tell her to stop going to work or to stop driving. The only thing I can control is my time and attention.

Yes, yes you can, you can tell her whatever the fuck you want. It is up to her to judge the value of your time and attention and decide accordingly.

[–]redarcher99 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The real problems here are around desire and respect.

Why is your wife making such a dumb decision? Does she have a drinking problem? Is she looking for validation in drinking or is drinking just more fun than being with you? Why is she going out drinking without you? What kind of friends does she have that would let her drive? What does lying to you say about her respect for you and trust of you?

If it was me, I’d tell her that she can’t take my car again and stop her from doing it, even if it meant putting the keys in a combination safe. Driving my car is a privilege not a right. She can drive her own car or pay for an Uber and wear the coat and risk of what happens.

I’d also tell her that if she wants to live in my house then she needs to make some changes.

That being said if you’re not a high value man then expect to get laughed at, lied to or ignored. You’ve got to be putting in the effort. How’s your lifting, are you a fun guy, how do you go at leading her, do you give her the tingles?

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Good input. She was doing it at work. She’s a manager of a bar and she is in no spot to handle the stress and responsibility easily. I know she uses it as an escape sometimes when the stress gets too high. But it is what it is. We went over this already. She’s going to have to come up With a solution to her problems. I’m taking the car keys. She can drive her own car

[–]rocknrollchuck 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She was doing it at work. She’s a manager of a bar

Way to bury the lead, champ.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You seem to be more focused on it being your car than her endangering the life of your children's mother. For reference, I put it that way for a reason, do you know why?

[–]unwillingone1[S] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes I see what you’re getting at. I mean I already went over the risks with her even past the ones she already was aware of. She well informed.

I sat her down and told her she’s not driving the suv anymore. She said she understands And that if she does it again I’m done taking this relationship seriously. She said she already thinks I don’t. But I wasn’t going to go down that path.

Hate fucked her an hour later and she made me lunch

[–]InChargeManRed Beret 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You aren't getting it

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What is my autistic brain missing

[–]InChargeManRed Beret 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Her actions control you, this is scarcity mentality allowing you to be in her frame. You are still negotiating. Everything you do is a negotiation, you trying to see the best "deal" you can get.

Don't try to get the best deal you can get, command the best behavior you deserve.

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for explaining that.

[–]scuba_steve122 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

why are you here if you aren't going to read & internalize any of the info that is provided by the community?

you have already been called out for posting from multiple accounts and seeking a short cut to answers. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT, MRP can be a very long road for some if they don't put in the required work, and it seems you are one of those.

you did STFU but then got butthurt because you didn't get your way. then after your wife throws in the white flag of submission you deny her of your masculinity & dominance.

as for enforcing boundaries, some women are bratty, some are right out disrespectful and will push boundaries, just to see how much of a man you are. if there is no punishment, then why would she respect your boundary?

she threw you a bone and you tossed it right back because you were all butthurt. when she came down naked, she wasn't trying to be manipulative. she know's she fucked up and was trying to make it right by submitting to you, offering her body to you. you could have simply punished her, give her a spanking for fucks sake. she tested your dominance and you failed.

you should really follow u/hornsofapathy his OYS & writings are very resourceful.

[–]unwillingone1[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Will do. But I disagree with fucking her. This has been spoken about before. I’m not giving her affection or pleasure when she’s putting the family at risk.

I wasn’t in the mood to fuck her anyway. She’s been wanting to fuck me more than I want to fuck her lately. She was def being manipulative. She knew she fucked up and didn’t want me mad at her so she pulled the sex card.

I wasn’t even mad. I was disappointed legit. I just didn’t want to be around her. That was my way of stfu

[–]high-end-butt-hurt 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The sex wasn’t the affection, the cuddles that is the affection. So are you giving her the cuddles, after not fucking her? Because my understanding is that “Cuddles ain’t free”

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t give her any cuddles. I said not now, I rolled over and went to sleep.

[–]scuba_steve122 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re not paying attention to what i really said here. I never said fuck her, i said spank her. Assert your dominance by punishing her for crossing a boundary. Be a man with a spine, because right now she is walking all over you.

If there is no punishment, then there is no reason to respect a boundary.

Removing affection & attention is one way to deal with it, but it isn’t going to work in every situation, so you deal with the situation how you choose & see fit.

STFU doesn’t mean you pout and get all upset being in your feelings. It just means you STFU. You can’t choose to not be around her by STFU, you have to remove yourself from her presence. But that wasn’t an option considering the logistics.

But honestly you have alot of reading, understanding & internalizing to do.

[–]Heeey_Reyrey 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So what are the other options if you preached on punishing her behavior? How do you reimposed your already chipped boundaries?

Edit: Apparently, reading other comments makes me understand why you guys don't provide concrete answers on this particular topic and the implications of it. Cheers!

[–]AcademicDumbass 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re walking the line of wanting a cheat code for handling this kind of situation. You aren’t going to get an answer here because ultimately, how you enforce this boundary is up to you. There’s no right answer.

IMO, you did withdraw your attention by telling her you’d talk to her about it later. That’s STFU and showing control of the situation in the moment. You probably should have fucked her in the middle of the night. “Teaching her a lesson” by not having sex and admitting you’re upset isn’t helping you at all. Put her in your frame by drilling her and then address the issue in the morning.

After that, how you handle it is up to you. Is she a danger to your family and you need to divorce her? Does she need AA? Ultimately this is her problem and it’s not your responsibility to fix it. But you have to first protect yourself and then your kids. How can you do that?

[–]business-_-_-travel 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We can’t afford her to get a DUI. Or worst.

What are you willing to enforce? What are you willing to risk? The stay plan is the go plan, right? For example, "Baby, if you drive home drunk again, the marriage is over".

Are you willing to walk away from her in the marriage if she crosses this boundary again?

[–]BostonBrakeJob 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

3 days 14 hours and 27 minutes exactly. A minute less and you're seen as weak, a minute more and you're just being butthurt...

...seriously dude?

[–]unwillingone1[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]BostonBrakeJob 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sarcasm, that's what.

Your problem isn't really that she drove home drunk.

It's not that you think there is a set time for "removing time and attention."

It's not that you view removing TAA as a weapon instead of just a natural response.

Your problem is you ask internet strangers to micromanage your emotions, reactions, responses and your wife instead of understanding what becoming your own mental point of origin means, to you. Whenever you figure that out, if you do at all, none of the above will be a problem anymore and you can quit shit posting.

So.....did you forgive her because your dick got hard yet? Or is the 4D chess match still being played out?

[–]unwillingone1[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You make a good point.

And that’s always been one of my problems. The MPO. I am working on that as one of my main priorities.

I sat her down and told her she’s not taking my car anymore. Which she said she understands. And if it happens again. I’m done taking this relationship seriously. Which she said she thinks I already dont. But I didn’t respond because I knew she was trying to change the subject to put blame on me. I broken record and she said I get it. And then I hate fucked her.

[–]Along-The-Reeds -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Dude, you are getting cuddles, even naked cuddles. Best bet is to take the cuddles, coast through life and, of course, keep your wife happy.

The alternative actually means having some self-respect and enforcing boundaries, and that shit takes a lot work.

But if you are lazy, spineless and weak, those cuddles might just keep on coming.

[–]unwillingone1[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t think you read the post. I don’t give a shit about those cuddles. They were just a form of manipulation.

There’s a lot of advice on here about enforcing boundaries. But I don’t see anything on what to do when boundaries are crossed besides the generic “remove your time. Affection. Attention.”

I don’t see much on how or when to reengage once the boundary is crossed. That’s what I’m asking

[–]Along-The-Reeds -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is where the hard work comes in. It is easy to say "this is a boudary". That does not mean shit unless you have consequences that go along with that. It sounds like you want other people to do that work for you.

You should have known the consequences, before you declared this a boundary, but since you didnt, know you have to decide. I am not going to give you examples because, what I would do may be totally different to what you would do...so you should decide what is best for you and then do it....that takes strength and hard work if you have not done it before, NMMNG and WISNIFG go into great detail on this subject, do the work and read the books, if you have not, and then apply some of the many tactics and examples that they list.

[–]themerovingian01 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would be more mad about the lying than the drunk driving.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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