Two things: I need some help with a situation with my wife and can MRP help a wife get over mental illness?

ParadoxThatDrivesUs · 2016-04-27T01:10:55+00:00

You've set the boundary, so enforce it. Don't fight with her, don't argue, don't even discuss the merits calmly. Just stick with a broken record that says what you'll be doing without DEERing.

The larger problem you have is dealing with a wife who you think has mental issues. Maybe so. But you should also consider the very real possibility that she's completely normal and healthy, and is only acting the way that she does because she's unconsciously playing the part that she's been scripted to play in your dysfunctional marriage. Everyone thinks that their wife is unique, and an undiagnosed mental problem sounds like a fancy rationalization of that. But my experience, and I think it's not uncommon, is that many of the things that I thought were unique and insolvable problems with my wife turned out to be pretty normal and manageable once I got my act together. Obviously I don't know your wife at all. All I'm saying is that you should question the assumption that she has unique problems. Don't let that become an excuse for her or for you.

il-est-ressuscite · 2016-04-27T01:34:47+00:00

Everyone's depressed. I am too after reading this. Buddy you better hit the brakes before your family goes over the cliff. You've got the well being of two kids to worry about you can't keep living like this. You need to get her to a doctor and figure out if there is a diagnosable problem or she's just an immature bitch who doesn't think she's living if she isn't dying about some manufactured drama. After you take care of that you'll be better able to focus on finding your spine and your balls and taking care of the rest of your shit.

jacktenofhearts · 2016-04-27T02:36:07+00:00

Well, aren't you in a cute little pickle.

Look, from all appearances your wife clearly has some Cluster-B shit going on, but you're not nearly at the point where it even matters. You tried to set a boundary, your wife freaked out and took it out on people that weren't even you, then tried to guilt you that you somehow inspired this behavior.

When she feels like shit she takes it out on everyone in the family and usually pulls everyone into her horrible frame.

She usually pulls everyone into her horrible frame BECAUSE YOU LET HER! Look, there may be a day where you can start thinking about pulling her into your frame, and where she can be comfortable as that demure, kind-hearted woman who appreciates your efforts to keep the family financially float. But that day is not today.

I fucked up today by telling my wife my plan.

Look, if you're going to do this, you should "go hard or go gentle." You want to go big, you should tell her your plan and not hesitate at all to say:

Thinks I don't trust her (which is kind of true - she's crappy with money and doesn't really control her spending)

You want to do it this way because you don't trust her. You feel that way, so own it.

You want to go "gentle," then you say some Fogging shit to placate the idea that you don't trust her, and maybe you don't get the Shitty Comfort Test she gave you. "Look, this isn't about trust. This is just trying to streamline our financial burdens. I literally freeze in abject fear at the idea of financial hardship. What if we need to replace a major appliance? What if we get into a car accident and get sued for more than our liability policy? We have no buffer, no safety net. This is why I want to take that third job. You'll have full transparency but unless we do it this way, I don't think we'll be disciplined enough to not dip into it for discretionary spending. This family's finances are a problem, and I'm going to solve it, but it has to be this way."

I don't know what kind of bullshit you stammered when she challenged you, but I'm sure it was some jumbled attempt to DEER and then checked yourself and STFU. If that's roughly what happened, stop doing this. Look, it's not rocket science. You already know kind of the conversations with your wife that you dread. Your gut tightens. Your palms get sweaty. There's a lump in your throat. You mentally hamster through a million different ways to NOT have this conversation. You are scared of your wife's reactions. You are terrified of her emotions. And she has nothing but contempt for you for doing that!

But you've been here a bit, you know that already. You're still terrified, but now you think, "well, fuck it, Red Pill says not to placate these visceral emotional reactions, so here we go." That primal response you feel with the sweaty palms and all, that's triggering Fight or Flight. You used to pick Flight. And now you... are actually NOT picking Fight! Cosmetically, it looks that way, but you're really just picking Not-Flight, which is not the same as Fight. Picking 'Fight' would mean thinking two steps ahead. She's still gonna freak the fuck out. It doesn't work where you say, "look, we're doing it this way, end of story," and maybe she sulks for an hour and then calls you up to bed with her leg spread wide open. Again, that may happen at some future date, but this is not the date. Any time you consider saying/doing something that gets that "sweaty palms" feeling, she's going to freak out on you with a Category 5 Shitty Comfort Test, and you ultimately just need to anticipate and be prepared to hold frame.

That "gentle" approach I suggested earlier, a lot of guys on MRP would think it's too many words, sounds too much like DEERing. They're sort of right, but the reason why I advise these things that sound like mini-monologues is for you as much as her. This family's finances are a problem, and I'm going to solve it, but it has to be this way. Saying this out loud is not explaining to her, it is reinforcing to you. She may, and probably will, freak out on you like an Irish banshee anyway. But then in your mind, you simply internalize the idea that her need to feel "trusted" does not exceed your responsibility to build a safety net for your family and your children. Sorry-not-sorry. That is the "Fight" response.

I don't know how to handle her anger and depression over this.

You don't need to "handle" anything. Your entire goal in your marriage right now is to establish boundaries. You have a terrible fucking existence, man. Most of your adult life has revolved around placating your wife's fucked up feelings, which you never hesitated to do no matter how much disgust she'd hold for you afterwards. You may be closer that death than life at this point of your life, and you will almost assuredly die as some insigificant fart in the wind, whose undying sacrifices for his family amounted to... what? Your wife literally hates you, and your children will mostly just grow up to hold you in contempt for not protecting them from shit like this.

I'd rather just run away forever but that doesn't seem like a good idea for other reasons. They are both scared of me and I recognize the feeling. You don't trust me and also don't really want to talk to me about what you're thinking. Those things don't speak well for me.

She's literally admitting she's butthurt about an irrational perceived trust from you, and that's fueled an even more irrational reaction to her daughter. Dude. DUDE. How do you live like this? Seriously, how do you fucking live like this? Why the hell is it so hard for you to say, "You can be pissed at me, but you need to be able to separate whatever anger you have at me from our daughters. They have nothing to do with this. You are getting upset at them for something they had nothing to do with. And then when you do recognize that's poor parenting, you immediately wail that 'we're all better off without you' instead of just fucking not doing that."

I'm more concerned with protecting my daughters and giving them a healthy, happy environment to mature and develop in. I take responsibility for my nice guy, codependent helping ways allowing my wife to avoid dealing with her emotional issues.

The script here is to say, "Look, if you are literally incapable of separating being upset at me from our daughters, then yes, this is serious enough to require professional help. It's a completely toxic environment where anything I say that could potentially upset you risks blowing back on our daughters. That's not an environment any child should be in."

dandar4600 · 2016-04-27T12:39:10+00:00

Well, send her to work then. You work 2 jobs barely making ends meet and you're thinking about getting a third. When are you actually home? When you go to sleep? What kind of life is that? If she worked maybe you wouldn't have to work this hard and this whole issue of having a third job would be moot.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-04-27T02:10:45+00:00

MRP fixes you and then the sex, usually. MRP does NOT fix the crazy.

THIS is the problem:

usually pulls everyone into her horrible frame.

She can only do this if YOU let her. Who is the leader and captain of this family?

She's pissed. Thinks I don't trust her (which is kind of true - she's crappy with money and doesn't really control her spending)

Own it. Let her be pissed. She is probably more pissed that her husband cannot be honest with her than about anything else.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-04-27T02:13:01+00:00

"I can't do this. I am going to see about checking myself in somewhere so nobody has to deal with me or live with me. Not tonight of course.

Great! Get her checked in. Dollars to donuts she is bipolar. Not Borderline, I said Bipolar. Lots of treatment options but you have to get her seen by a psychiatrist. Make the appointment TODAY. Call today. She is crying for help. Why won't you help her?

Can my progress in MRP help her get better?

No but YOU can get better.

cholomite · 2016-04-27T04:37:11+00:00

You know what's best for your family, stick with it and do it, and don't let your wife's emotions bring you down. Womens feelings cloud their judgement much more than mens. That's why they need men to, essentially ignore then in favor of doing what we know is right. They want that. They take comfort in knowing that their man is not beholden to the same emotional wims that they are subject to. They'll kick and scream the whOle time and never directly tell you, but it's true. Make sure what you're doing is best, firstly for you, and secondly for your family and stick with it.

over60_stupid_loner · 2016-04-27T14:55:02+00:00

OP, while reading your post, and then again while reading u/Jacktenofhearts reply to you……..

I was thinking of the post history of u/strategos_autokrator.

You might take a look, it may have some similarities to you.

Chump_No_More · 2016-04-27T15:22:05+00:00

If her outrageous behavior is tied to her cycle, you may want to look into PMDD. From Mayo Clinic website:

Premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD) is a severe form of PMS that includes physical and behavioral symptoms that usually resolve with the onset of menstruation.

PMDD causes extreme mood shifts that can disrupt work and damage relationships. Symptoms include extreme sadness, hopelessness, irritability, or anger, plus common PMS symptoms such as breast tenderness and bloating.

my ex had PMDD and it absolutely mirrored 'cluster B' behavior.

blarggggggggggg · 2016-04-27T17:05:44+00:00

I would recommend the book Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. Even if she is not mentally ill, the advice in there is golden for learning to detatch from her emotions and frame, and learning to accept that you cannot change her, only change yourself and your reactions to her (Extreme Ownership - another good book for this mindset). In a way, women in general are just like any cluster B or child, they will shit test and push boundaries to see exactly where you stand, where the limits are, and it is up to you to hold firm to your vision, needs and frame.

You may want to post over in personalfinance sub. Take a third job if you must and if you feel that is the best plan, but usually it's easier to spend less than it is to make more - maybe they can pick apart your budget and find ways to make 2 jobs work.

Ultimately, it is YOUR FAULT if there are financial problems - you cannot blame your wife for frivolous spending or whatever. YOU are the one enabling this by giving her money, or as it was in my case, just caving in and buying shit to try and stop her constant complaining. (but it was never enough - as soon as I got her what she wanted - it wasn't appreciated - it was on to complaining about the next thing she 'needed'). I used to blame her for the fact we saved no money but I had to wake up and OWN MY SHIT - ultimately, it is 100% my responsibility to make sure we're financially on track and if she is not helping, she needs the money and responsibility taken away. Especially if she is not working and contributing nothing.

bogeyd6 · 2016-04-28T11:39:45+00:00

What if I told you that when setting a boundary it is your perfect right to do so and when she has a bad mood all day that you can still have an awesome day?

Shubrook · 2016-04-28T18:58:43+00:00

Does your wife work? How much of your income does she control? If you have to work 3 jobs while she goes out and spends all your money...

strategos_autokrator · 2016-05-02T09:21:05+00:00

Boundaries are what you actually defend. She will get upset at them and rage, trying to test if you mean them or not. How else will she understand this is for real? Stay strong defending it.

Also, if she is taking it on the kids, this is fucked up. As a father, your boundaries must cover them. If this means leaving the house for pizza with the kids and leaving the ragemomster behind, so be it. Be a man. Protect the kids.

starista · 2016-05-04T21:57:23+00:00

I have a diagnosed mental illness, many red pill techniques are helpful when my husband uses them.

It's almost the "tough love" approach. It's an illness, like any other, but that doesn't give me a free pass to throw emotional diarreah at him when I am upset. I needed to be told to own my shit - do what helps a depressed person whether it's meds, exercise, therapy, better food choices or all of the above.

I'm not as familiar with TRP jargon as I'd like to be

Has she considered speaking to a doctor? Unsure of her age but these could also be Perimenopause symptoms. Again - not excusing her behavior.

Title	Two things: I need some help with a situation with my wife and can MRP help a wife get over mental illness?
Author	ornerycrank
Upvotes	6
Comments	33
Date	April 27, 2016 12:36 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4glxsx/two_things_i_need_some_help_with_a_situation_with/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/two-things-i-need-some-help-with-a-situation-with.207465 https://theredarchive.com/post/207465

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