Unplugging - LF Advice

SBIII · 2018-03-01T15:33:52+00:00

You might think that your SMV is higher than hers but that means nothing - you're at Dread Level 1. You're behaviour is unnatractive.

Why do you keep starting conversations with her - STFU?

Why are you going to councelling? And you initiated it? You're a fucking idiot.

You're thinking dread will work at this level? You're a twat. She doesn't care. She won't fuck you and won't even sleep in the same bed as you. You could fuck 10 women in front of her at this stage and she wouldn't even care.

You say you don't give a fuck but clearly you do. You're engaging in talks, bringing her to councelling. You are trying to negotiate desire. You have no outcome independence. You have no frame.

Go back to the start.

Lift, read the side bar and for God's sake - above everything else, Shut the fuck up.

rocknrollchuck · 2018-03-01T16:47:28+00:00

I have been trying to get her to do things for me and have her feel like I am leading but there is a lot of resistance for obvious reasons

How To Lead A Wife That Doesn't Let You

I thought she was actually considering divorce so a week ago I had a conversation with her.

Also, I being an idiot had a conversation with her about her sleeping on the couch yesterday saying I feel bad she is sleeping on the couch

How to STFU

I had convinced her to go marriage counseling a few weeks ago which I'm thinking maybe is a bad idea.

This is a bad idea. I would cancel it.

She has some real issues with me ignoring her and not being there for her in the past 5 years

Her issues are hers to deal with. Have you read WISNIFG?

“If you do not recognize your assertive right to choose to be responsible only for yourself, other people can and will manipulate you into doing what they want by presenting their own problems to you as if they were your problems.”

After our divorce conversation I put together a plan and I realized I'd probably be happier by myself with the exception that I would have to split time with my boys who are my life. My OI is pretty much on point right now except with my kids as I could care less if its her or someone else that I am with.

You're just starting. Give it some time, and follow The 12 Levels of Dread

its hard when things seem to keep getting worse.

Because you're looking to fix your marriage instead of fixing yourself. Fix yourself first, THEN the marriage MAY get fixed.

I keep losing frame because of the thought of not seeing my kids everyday. How do you handle this?

A Practical Guide To Building Frame

2ndal · 2018-03-01T15:36:11+00:00

Good write up. Your wife is not attracted to you, but you know that.

She never has forgiven me for it but I'm not sure if she needs to if she could feel desire for me. I know you can't negotiate desire but can you build desire if someone is checked out of your relationship?

Your wife probably desired you at one point. I believe it is possible to get that desire back. Desire can be built by being a high quality man on all factors. That is what this sub is about. Sidebar is your guide, and the answer to the rest of your questions. But I'll address them anyway:

It feels impossible to Game someone who doesn't want to spend time with you alone or let you touch them. I maybe could tease her and be playful but its hard when all she says she wants is space.

Yes, it's tough. There's a shell to break through. You need to be playful, fun, a strong leader--especially with the boys. You lead the positive life you want to lead, and she has the option to join you or continue to sit around depressed, finger fucking Facebook on her phone.

It says to wait 1 year for changes to take but that seems like a really long time to deal with a complete lack of value of her in my life. I know this is my fault though so I shouldn't hold it against her. I get the 1000 ft rope analogy and I just need to keep improving me, see if she comes along and make that call later but its hard when things seem to keep getting worse.

Consider the amount of time your wife has to put up with you being a shitty man. One year doesn't seem so bad. But look, man, you may not see any changes in her after a year. In fact, don't count on it. You're doing this for you. If you look back after a year and see no changes in you, you dun goofed. Don't expect her to change at all, set your expectations accordingly, and focus on improving yourself. She may fall in, she may not. But you end up a better man at the end, one who is actually capable of attracting the type of woman you desire and who desires you. Right now you are not that man. Cement that in your head.

I am struggling to build dread level past a certain point because I keep losing frame because of the thought of not seeing my kids everyday. How do you handle this? This is 90% of the time why I have conversations with her that end up making things worse. I think I need to start working on day game and flirting to see how I can use this against her.

You say you're OI but this tells me otherwise. I don't care if it's your kids that are the only reason that is keeping you around. That is bullshit. It's also bullshit that you think you can't build dread past a certain point. Prove to me you're actually building any dread at all. I see no evidence of it. You've been doing this for four months. This is your first post. There are no OYS comments you've made. I highly doubt you're progressing like you think you are.

Should my relationship be getting worse first instead of better if some things I am doing are working? I know I am not helping with losing frame or my "discussions" with her either. Maybe this is the primary area I need to work on.

At this point who gives a shit about your relationship. She is not the focus! Get that through your goddamn head. What you do for yourself through MRP is not a recipe to fix your relationship or change your wife. It's to change YOU. You keep wondering whether sitting down and having a chit chat is the right thing to do or not, which tells me you have internalized nothing you've read here. NOTHING. Communication is not the fucking answer.

Focus on the sidebar. Commit to self improvement like it's your fucking job, because it is.

Persaeus · 2018-03-01T15:28:03+00:00

I was definitely alpha at the beginning

were you slaying pussy left and right. did your wife offer up her ass and swallow your cum?

The_Litz · 2018-03-01T15:49:12+00:00

You are right, she is checked out. A lot of your post is you talking about her. You are probably used to getting your way at work or wherever and now snowflake won't play along with your plans.

You are not on DL 9. At best, you are af DL2, if you are lucky. Dread is something you build over time.

All the guys claiming their SMV's are higher than their wive's, sorry bud, but her orbiter (which she is still in contact with btw) proves you wrong in this regard. Your SMV is lower, keep it in mind.

To break the stalemate. There lies your challenge. Right now you are talking too much. Waaaay to much.

I am going to risk being flamed here, but I personally think you should quit one of your training disciplines and spend more time at home.

You profess that you want to spend all thisntime with your kids, but right now you are out of the house 80% of the time.

Give the woman some slack, don't be a hard ass, don't try and control her and STFU. Spend some time with her and the kids as a family. Even going to the supermarket as a family can count.

STFU does not mean stop talking and trying to be a 'strong silent type', you are not. It means stop trying to initiate conversations about your feelz, why she isn't filled with feelz, tingles or fuzzies.

Your question, yes, it can get worse before it gets better. Both of you have to reach rock bottom and build from there.

I have never been closer to divorce than now. I've never been happier than now. YMMV

ReddJive · 2018-03-01T15:57:27+00:00

The stay plan is the same as the go plan.

If she files or you file what do you do? The same thing right?

or is Red Pill to you a way of keeping her? Maybe if she leaves you'll just throw your hands up and say: fuck did my best. Now I'm just going to sit here and cry.

Stay plan is the same as the go plan.

Not sure why she makes any difference at this point. She can stay or she can go.

hack3ge · 2018-03-01T16:20:57+00:00

We haven't actually started counseling - I told her to block her calendar and was talking to a counselor..

Whats the best course of action? Just don't schedule anything and when she asks say I changed my mind. It seems I've gotten myself into a predicament.

ReturnOfTheSwing · 2018-03-01T17:06:30+00:00

Remember, shit tests will ramp up in the beginning. She subconsciously will notice you changing, which will trigger her shit test mechanisms into overdrive. She will poke and prod more and more, possibly up to a main event, until her feminine brain deems you suitable to submit to.

You are not there yet. This takes time. For you and her. You need to improve more, and she needs time to absorb this.

STOP TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS. You already know this is not helping. The counseling sounds like a horrible idea as well.

It feels impossible to Game someone who doesn't want to spend time with you alone or let you touch them. I maybe could tease her and be playful but its hard when all she says she wants is space.

Part of the shit tests. It will get better as long as you continue to improve. I got silent treatment for like a week before things got better LOL.

It says to wait 1 year for changes to take but that seems like a really long time to deal with a complete lack of value of her in my life.

Again, it takes time, you may think you are the shit, which is good from a self-esteem point of view, but you really aren't if you just started this. Everything takes time. Start at Dread Level 1 and move up a level each month. It's a system for a reason. You are not special. You are not different.

I think I need to start working on day game and flirting to see how I can use this against her.

No, no, no. Stop thinking of it like that. You are focusing way too much on her. This is about you, right? If you are an awesome, fun guy, every woman including your wife will want to be with you. (Edit: And, if after you apply the system for a reasonable amount of time, and your wife is still not on board, then so what. But for now, focus on you.)

Should my relationship be getting worse first instead of better if some things I am doing are working? I know I am not helping with losing frame or my "discussions" with her either. Maybe this is the primary area I need to work on.

Even if you do it totally right, which you aren't, yes, it will get worse before it gets better. Your mistakes are only making it doubly or triply worse however.

straius · 2018-03-01T19:47:33+00:00

Stop worrying about attracting her or getting her to desire you again. Work on making yourself desirable to others and just try to keep the peace at home. Value + a willingness to leave is what will induce desire in her.

To that end, envision a reality where you don't see your kids every day. Embrace that pain. Make it real. Deal with it thus and realize that whether or not you see then everyday, you will still do what you need to do to be a good dad to them. Eradicate that limiting fear so that you are free to act.

Strength is being unencumbered by fear. That means even though you feel it, you do not let it control your actions.

This is what the willingness to leave is all about. You do not have it yet. You are NOT OI. You give too much power to your fears.

screechhater · 2018-03-01T23:46:11+00:00

Ya. You are pretty deep in her frame.

It’s truly time to stop talking.

Hug her long and hard. Not sexual, you are just there.

Bed time grab her by the hand and lead her to the bed.

Stop. Talking.

Never let her mood effect you. Always come home in a bright cheery mood. She was a cunt the night before ? What cunty mood last night ?

Serious as fuck. It will change her perspective over night. But most of all quit fucking talking

DanG3 · 2018-03-02T00:28:44+00:00

Oh! So cute, you took away her text-boy/fuck-boy/dopamine fix, so she’s throwing a tantrum sleeping on the couch. Too bad she isn’t sure enough about him to monkey-branch. If I were her, and you were me, I sure as fuck wouldn’t want to go to a counselor with that on the menu. Let’s see here, how can we flip the script ....

hack3ge · 2018-03-02T02:51:43+00:00

Anyone have any ideas on how to tease or mess with her about sleeping on the couch? Or do I just ignore it again and at some point she will realize it’s pointless?

BluepillProfessor · 2018-03-03T17:17:41+00:00

She has some real issues with me ignoring her and not being there for her in the past 5 years

In what universe do you think increasing Dread Game and her anxiety is a good idea if the problem is you being checked out previously?

can you build desire if someone is checked out of your relationship

Not by using Dread game in my opinion. Dread game works because she values you and doesn't want to lose you. If she has already checked out she doesn't value and has already lost you in her mind.

RedPillCoach · 2018-03-05T16:55:49+00:00

I am responding to a PM by this man:

Her resentment is that when we had our son she wanted nothing to do with me no sex, no going out having fun, etc. I withdrew then she decided things weren’t right and asked for more attention

Her resentment is that she cut you off and now is pissed about it? I think you did the right thing "withdrawing" but you may have withdrawn to much? It sounds like the wife threw up plenty of lifelines and you never grabbed any of them.

she had already checked out

Unfortunately I have seen very, very few good outcomes given this if you define "good outcome" as staying married and fixing it.

she was getting all worked up over that guy she was texting. They still talk

This is an "emotional affair." When a woman does this in many ways it is worse than a physical affair. The normal precondition for accepting a woman who has strayed (emotionally or physically) is to have open social media and texts and no further contact with the affair partner. I doubt you are in a strong enough position to enforce this demand.

I gave her an ultimatum prematurely basically saying I wouldn’t be in a sexless, loveless marriage

How is this an "ultimatum?" Sounds like a statement of fact to me.

I had been making changes being more flirty and she was saying I was pressuring her.

Typical woman testing your new frame. If you could have told her something like: "I need to practice flirting and though I would practice on my wife. It's OK, I can practice on younger girls" with full confidence and authenticity and you managed to survive the resulting shit storm it is likely your marriage would have turned around overnight.

She also has pushed back on all affection and touching to the point where she huffs and makes faces.

At a later point you want to connect the Kino and PUA stuff to her sexual availability to you but right now she sees a needy man who is initiating sex with her every time he Kinos. She sees it as "creepy." I would back off the sexual Kino. Start with arm around shoulders, hand on small of back etc and stop connecting you being horny with touching your wife, at least for now.

I said she had to love me or leave and she could take the time she needed to figure her shit out and I would focus on the kids

Another ultimatum from a position of weakness is not going to help. You need to build your strength. You need to build actual options other than your wife but not tell her, at least right now. If she sees it organically and naturally (I mean if she sees you interacting with younger/prettier women naturally WITHOUT the ultimatums).

Is this "cheating?" I think not! You already gave her several ultimatums so you have my permission to build your abundance mentality at this point.

clearly this is why you STFU since every time I talk to her about my feelings shit gets worse.

Absolutely! STFU is not stonewalling but it is to keep you from making it worse.

I am supposed to go to Emotionally Focused Therapy

So your wife wants you to sit with her and a female therapist and learn how to vomit your emotions better? I don't think so. I think this will make your situation worse- although there is a chance you can actually use it for your betterment. If you take a Red Pill attitude and you are experienced enough to handle the wife's emotional hamster this can work sometimes. Usually it is a disaster as they crack the man open like an eggshell and force him to cry in front of the wife. They assume if you can get the mean, distant man to display emotions then they have broken him, he is more pliable to the woman, and voila! The marriage is "better" since the wife is firmly in charge.

Caveat: Realize that as a Coach who is also Red Pill, I am biased against marriage counseling.

Do I still use dread if my wife is checked out

I believe you still use Dread but not active Dread. I would not do anything above level 6 and I would practice approaching/flirting/PUA on random women. Do not tell the wife what you are doing.

That is the MRP solution but it doesn't work very well with a wife who is checked out. It works ridiculously well if the wife is motivated to stay married but if the wife is checked out that is often game over.

Should I try some counseling sessions with her? Its not typical communication counseling its focused on needs and hurts

If you can maintain frame with 2 females beating the crap out of you then feel away. I seriously doubt that is the case.

How do I handle the not wanting to be touched and her sleeping on the couch

How do you want to handle it? How do you think you should handle it knowing your wife and enough Red Pill knowledge to be dangerous?

I'm getting happier and happier and my marriage seems to be getting worse and worse and I seem to be caring less and less

This is somewhat unusual and again, it is grim. This is a wife who is actually upset that her husband is happier.

My advice? Continue improving, continue becoming happier, attend marriage counseling separately with your own therapist, not the one your wife chose. I would find a man and I would definitely not do emotion based therapy with my wife. Again, if you can hold frame this will work for you but I doubt that you can.

Title	Unplugging - LF Advice
Author	hack3ge
Upvotes	4
Comments	74
Date	March 1, 2018 3:13 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/815xq7/unplugging_lf_advice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/unplugging-lf-advice.204758 https://theredarchive.com/post/204758

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