Advice for an over-analytical mind? I feel like this has impeded my progress in becoming comfortable in my own skin

Suckerpunch08 · 2011-08-24T01:44:33+00:00

Just roll with your emotions dude. I used to be the same way as you are, but since I let go of all that analyzing and intellectualizing muddling my brain, my life instantly became better.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you highly value intellect. You just don't think emotions are reliable. Well, the truth is that our emotional part of our brain has been around a lot longer than the parts that invented vibrating dildos. It's much faster and learns without us even knowing that it's learning. It applies its knowledge without you even knowing it's applying it. It catches queues and makes decisions before you do. Unless you don't let it do what it does best.

By doing what you're doing, you're only being half the man you could be. Go with the flow, and you'll find that with time, you'll be picking things up that you didn't even know you were picking up. If you plan everything, you'll never be able to improvise and adapt, and Darwin once said, "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

And don't call yourself a "gamer". You're just a guy who plays games. Just because I do laundry, I'm not going to go around telling people I'm a woman.

T3hJ3hu · 2011-08-24T16:50:29+00:00

This is a long one, but I figure you'd prefer tons of input to none.

I'm a pretty big fan of analytic psychology, especially of the introspective variety. I've spent a lot of time trying to mold my mind to become something that I wanted it to be, so that I could be the "ideal" person with the "ideal" life. I had already gotten close in the financial and social aspects, but women had always been my sore spot. I wanted to claim total victory in that regard, so that I could validate my existence as capable and worthy.

While I could definitely inch closer to my ideal, it was impossible to actually obtain. Even when I started having a bit of success I could still only see my flaws, which sent me into a neverending loop of neuroticism and depression as I tried to become a better person. My behaviors changed dramatically and so did my relationships. I stopped caring about the people I used to otherwise love, simply because I was so consumed in my quest for success.

What took me forever to realize was this: the best thing I can possibly do is be myself and relax, for the benefit of everyone involved. It's the only logical solution.

You think it's "the easy way out" to just relax and have fun? Yeah fucking right. That's the entire challenge of dealing with women, and you're brushing it aside because you don't like the idea of your life philosophy being ineffective in this regard -- I've been there before, and that was a tough pill to swallow. You have to understand something very vital: if you're not having fun, then she's not having fun. If you're spending the whole date in your head, wondering about the next perfect thing to say, you will come off as awkward and boring.

When I was first starting out, I had a good way to get my head in the game before a date. I'd tell myself, over and over again, "I'm just gonna go have fun". Say what you want when you want to, as though you were just going out with friends. Don't worry about offending her or winning her over. If you didn't have fun by the end, then clearly she's not the right one. You like using logic to solve your problems, but you're not even looking at the big picture. It's shit like this:

How can I change or look past my own flaws without changing who I am?

Everyone has flaws. Everyone has made mistakes. They don't fucking matter. So what if this random girl you just met hates you? If she can't deal with who you are, then she just did you a fucking favor by bailing out (I had to find that one out the hard way). There are tons of women out there. Some will jive with you and others won't. Your flaws are just another part of you, and if she can't accept them, then you don't want to be with her anyway.

On a note unrelated to seduction... you should really reconsider what "you" are, if "you" stops existing just because analysis ceases. Call me crazy, but I consider myself to be muuuuuuuch more than my preferred method of problem solving. Analysis dwells in the past and dreams of the future, but forsakes living in the present. What good is your life if you spend all of it trying to make tomorrow better, without ever stopping to just enjoy today?

thistooshallparse · 2011-08-24T06:27:56+00:00

Your root problem is perfectionism, an unwillingness to accept that failure is always going to happen sometimes.

Sometimes you are going to make a little mistake when talking to a girl. Sometimes you are going to make a big mistake when talking to a girl. Sometimes you are going to do everything right and she won't like you. Sometimes the small mistake will blow you out. Sometimes the big mistake still won't stop you getting laid. One day you will think you have found the "perfect" girl, and then it will all fall apart.

That's life - you aren't actually in complete control of what happens and you need to come to grips with that. Attempts to layer more and more thinking and pre-planning into your approach are probably counter productive at this point.

You need to develop some outcome independence and, indeed, allow yourself the "cop out" of having fun. Isn't having fun the whole point anyway? Why do you want to find this particular type of woman if not to have fun with her? Waiting until you have the perfect game and the perfect woman to have fun is unnecessary and counter-productive, because when if you ever do start an interaction that goes "perfectly" you'll be holding on too tight and you'll kill it.

winnnar · 2011-08-24T11:52:33+00:00

Read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Classic inner game stuff. Teaches you to be present in the moment, filtering out mental noise, etc etc

testmypatience · 2011-08-24T03:59:37+00:00

A good dancer is one that gracefully overcomes any errors and continues on.

This can translate well to your constant oversight of your interaction.

You could even logically process it as...

Initiate interaction > encounter error > do not acknowledge error > continue conversation

If you are called out...

acknowledge error > continue conversation

OR

acknowlege error > enhance to make funny > continue conversation as if it never happened

darkenergizerbunny · 2011-08-24T07:58:47+00:00

I'm very similar to you in that my highest value is rationality, so I also strive to have my actions logically consistent with my desires (and my emotions in line with what I want them to be).

This part can probably be skipped over, but it is interesting

One way to think of the brain's emotional center is as a multi-channel, graded output of a Bayesian inference machine which tries to guess the state of the world based on its model and from the input coming into the five senses. This model is derived part from genetic memory and part from past experience. For instance, a brain confronted with the image of a desert, and the sound of a rattle, might conclude that there is a rattlesnake nearby and respond with fear. The problem is that the brain often doesn't tell us what state it thinks the world is in, but just gives us the emotional output (for good reason, you often want to act quickly in these situations and it would be distracting to ponder why). This is especially frustrating in science, when the brain might just scream 'I'm confused' and leave you to figure out why (I think the separation between the logical and emotional brain is leakier than I've outlined here, since often times you do get a bit of information as to why you are feeling a certain way).

More ancient emotions such as fear or anger often have such a strong physiological effect on us that they actually hurt our ability to figure out why they are happening, valuing action over thought. However, since they are based on the brain's model of the world, they are fallible. There are two options when confronted with an emotion:

If the model is correct: Follow the action motivated by the emotion
If the model is wrong: Ignore the emotion, follow the course of action which is logically best

For most of us, our model of how girls react to us is completely off, so we are constantly taking the latter option in the hope that eventually our brain will re-learn the model and our emotions will come to better reflect reality (after all, it's far more comfortable to follow emotions than to constantly second-guess yourself). What's worse is that many emotions form self-fulfilling prophecies in human interaction, so you are fighting an uphill battle (i.e., scared of girl reacting badly, but approach anyway, and anxiety makes the girl react badly).

There are a couple of ways you can approach re-learning, but they all involve accumulating experiences so that the brain modifies its model. I don't know if the brain responds to simulation, which we analytical types are prone to do, but if it does it is at best an inefficient method of emotional learning (but pretty good logic-wise). Ideally, we would want a way which makes the process pleasant and doesn't induce self-fulfilling prophecies.

the lazy can start reading here

The first piece of advice I have, and one which seems counter-intuitive, is to trust yourself. If you spend all day second-guessing and probing the origin every emotion you have, you won't be able to get anything done (I've tried) and it won't help you anyway, since the emotional mind doesn't learn this way. Also, our emotions tend to get most things right. Instead, save your logical mind for tasks it's better suited to.

You have to hack your mind into a state of nonreactivity, which will allow you to ignore your negative emotions and put you in a state where you will be able to accumulate the experiences to re-learn your model. Everyone has a different way of doing this: some people approach three sets, some drink, etc. What's worked well for me recently is to manage expectations (i.e., don't expect that she'll melt in your arms and whisper 'Fuck me'), keep my logical mind focused on a single thing (i.e., eye contact), and try to observe without controlling (breath, heartbeat, her, the environment).

Also, it's good to try out new modes of behavior once in a while. By immersing yourself in a problem, you gain insight into it, and going back to the way you were is the easy part. I hope this helps, and I also welcome any feedback on my current model. It's far from complete, especially in the understanding of how emotion and logic play off of each other.

needz · 2011-08-24T11:57:02+00:00

React and trust yourself. Don't think and doubt yourself. Best of luck though. I slip back into your shoes regularly.

DesignMyself · 2011-08-24T15:09:44+00:00

you are not your mind.

RedPosterboard · 2011-08-24T15:39:09+00:00

... so you're concerned with creating a logical and consistent framework for your personality... but that hasn't made you reach the level of confidence you want to exude; and if you turn off your brain you will dissolve your confidence.

Within that consistent framework of thought (failure and failure), becoming a happy, more confident person is impossible.

Could the problem be that you suffer from low self-esteem rather than lack of confidence? Could the problem be that nothing you ever do is ever good enough to you, so even when you're succesful you punish yourself? Even when you do your best and you already exude an air of intelligence and ability (knowledge-seeking, debate team cap, a certain talent for writing), it's not enough... you already are that logical, intelligent person that you want to be. The rest is just wasting energy.

I suspect your desire to cultivate that personality is not related to attracting women at all, but more related to trying to prove yourself to the world. You may want to ask yourself instead who it is you're trying to live up to and why, and if trying to be as smart as possible will indeed make you a happier and stronger person.

2011-08-24T16:41:14+00:00

I'm the same way. I haven't really solved the problem yet, but I have a quick tip. When your mind is looping around mistakes, juggling negative thoughts, try this: detach yourself from the situation. In a way, it's the opposite of "living in the moment". Observe your negative emotions, observe the way they feel, and they'll be easier to let go.

As an example, just the other day I made a mistake in front of some strangers, and I was embarrassed. This was early in the morning and it could have ruined my day. I could have gotten hung up on this all day. Instead, I observed my embarrassment.

Hmm, I'm embarrassed. I feel horrible. I feel humiliated. Humiliation is washing over me. I'm embarrassed over this. This. Haha. This little thing. I'm embarrassed? Hahaha. Ridiculous. And all of a sudden, I'm not embarrassed anymore, the mistake is forgotten, and I can get on with my day.

WolfInTheField · 2011-08-24T01:47:48+00:00

There's some hardship ahead for kids like us. We're here if you need any help. For now i can only tell you to catch yourself in the act whenever you start overthinking, then make just doing it your instant response. You have nothing to lose here, realize that. Also, share with a person you trust and see a lot, so they can tell you when you're doing it, and so that you can stop the habit. Realize also that your subconscious can't just drop one thing without picking up another. Hence i advise replacing this limiting mental habit by a success-habit, like instantly forbidding yourself all further protest when you detect overthinking.

rosid · 2011-08-24T03:18:21+00:00

I know where you're at. I used to think waaaay too much about what I did and who I was, which is not a bad thing if it's not actually stopping you from doing the things you want to do. However if you're not doing the things you'd like to do and you're thinking all the time about the negative reasons why you aren't having fun, then you're just in a negative self-perpetuating loop where all your conclusions make you feel bad and you continue feeling unfulfilled.

You may not like where I'm taking this post now: read up on Taoism. One of the best ways of always being "present" and "in the now" is to literally, not have anything else going on in your mind except for the intuitive aspect of yourself. There really is no point in engaging your logic circuits if its impeding you. The effect of your hesitation (and this was my largest sticking point before I could just say anything I wanted) is even worse. The best place to start would be Ben Hoff's The Tao of Pooh. From there I'd recommend Stephen Mitchell's translation of the Tao Te Ching.

I'm the kind of person who spends way too much time going over situations and possibilities in my mind and analyzing their frameworks and pathways; I love doing it when it comes to videogames, books, art, improvisational music etc. But that kind of thinking has its place. This is a quote I use to keep myself in check when I find myself "out of the moment" and not having fun, put it up somewhere where you can see it all the time (it's the last section of the page).

zeltrine · 2011-08-24T05:33:42+00:00

I use to be the same way, but I decided to think of life as a pre-determined video game, (Like black ops, it doesnt matter if you shoot, you'll still pass the level, lol).

Destiney, Fate, what have you, will already have pre-determined your outcome.

Being the intellectual that you are, you will probably have a hard time accepting it, but in reality it's really something easy to accept if you're open minded.

You don't choose your race, your skin, where you're born, how you're raised, what TIME of humanity you exist in, etc. There's alot of stuff that's already predetermined. You might as well see life like that. It takes the edge off of risks, seriously, especially when it comes to girls, because there's no real risk at all, only rejection, but even that passes.

lepoutine · 2011-08-24T14:20:06+00:00

Embrace your thoughts and actions so that you never dwell on the past or over-think the future when in the moment. You are who you are, and what you say, think, and do should be in harmony.

2011-08-25T06:04:36+00:00

Yeah, don't turn off your brain. You'll hate yourself pretty quickly if you start doing that. I'm pretty analytical too, and I occasionally get stuck in my head. At a certain point, though, I sometimes just remind myself "you are a man - you want to have sex with a woman tonight" and I try and apply my intellect to that task only.

Also, it sounds as if you might be bored by your surroundings. Go hang out in some new places that interest you and try and meet new people there.

WillPierce · 2011-08-24T01:05:55+00:00

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Title	Advice for an over-analytical mind? I feel like this has impeded my progress in becoming comfortable in my own skin
Author	cygnusness
Upvotes	30
Comments	35
Date	August 24, 2011 12:04 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/jsaqs/advice_for_an_overanalytical_mind_i_feel_like/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/advice-for-an-over-analytical-mind-i-feel-like.1321708 https://theredarchive.com/post/1321708

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