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[–][deleted] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]constant777 44 points45 points46 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Second this. The book isn't telling people to be fake interested, it's instructing people who are already interested in/care about others on how to make those relationships thrive.
[–]Tobeddetermined 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Third this. There is a whole 'nother book on that topic. Authenticity (Harvard Business School). Very powerful idea in psychology. Though this book is in the context of business and organizations. But the principles still apply.
Another book I highly recommend and is reccomend by Neil Strauss/Style who wrote the Game:
The psychology of influence, by Dr. Robert Cialdini. A must read. It's steeped and based in science.
Authenticity
Influence
[–]Zipcuz 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Nothing to add, but I forth this.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Fifth right here
[–]KatherineAshleyL06 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
6th!
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Legitimate-Machine36 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
8th for real
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
9 9 9 like Juice Wrld
[–]Nikkinicole57 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I personally felt it was just about being nice and trying to understand others.
It was not nearly as bad as "talking to strangers", which somehow got good reviews despite being a long winded book of trash facts.
[–]joey-tv-show 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why do you think people like dogs so much... they just smile and are genuinely excited to see you
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I read the book a few years back and I do remember that some parts of the book feel a little bit like they're straight up teaching you manipulation tricks. It does have it's golden nuggets though, but you should take everything with a grain of salt.
This book essentially taught me that people are generally self-centered and love being praised and talking about themselves, that you should always focus on the other persons needs if you want something out of them, bad criticism usually leads to nothing if you do it in a way that hurts the person's ego, and the importance of smiling and positivity. However, you should never do something if it feels unauthentic or dishonest and always be clear about your intentions to avoid coming off as a manipulative person.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Aren’t most human interactions “manipulation” though? If something is wrong with your meal you have choice with how you handle it. You can choose to be civil to the staff or scream in rage. If someone tells you being nice and courteous to the staff is more likely to get you what you want, then is that a manipulation trick?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I believe it comes down to your intentions, you can choose to be nice for convenience but you can also choose to be nice because you consider it to be the right thing, because actually care about that person or for altruism.
i choose a
[–]Strict_String 54 points55 points56 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
“Become genuinely interested in other people.” Don’t know how that’s inauthentic.
Maybe you’re overly invested in having a bad personality?
Maybe you jump to conclusions about, say, a book, without actually reading it.
[–]white_disc_4_holes 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
That's a good advice! Totally agree with you. But what about "Never criticize. Only praise and compliment.". Oh hell no. I have been like that for years and people took advantage of me. I want to be direct and confrontational.
[–]Pristinefix 29 points30 points31 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The amount of situations that need a confrontation is vanishingly few. If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it. Dare to lead, by Brene Brown and Quiet Leadership both advocate that criticism and confrontation do not change or help people. The driving force to help people is to praise the good stuff, and let them know the rest is bad. People beat themselves up all the time over everything. They also only get about an hour of good genuine praise per YEAR!!
Good genuine praise is hard. Don't be fake with it. Just don't add negative vibes to people's lives. Be on everyone's team, and you will have great relationships for the rest of your life.
Another good book I recommend is Models by Mark Manson
[–]boss413 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
The point of the book is to win friends and influence people; criticism makes people not want to be your friend nor want to listen to you to be influenced. Whether you get taken advantage of is an unrelated personal problem, unless you're being taken advantage of exclusively for your praising and complimenting of them. Flattery will lead to manipulative behavior because it is inherently dishonest.
Directness is important for teaching things that someone knows they need to not fail at--like in a manager-employee relationship (EDIT: I mean directness with feedback; being direct with your intentions is great). Being confrontational is purely an adversarial action to be employed when all other forms of influence have failed.
[–]MrNobody___ 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There is no need to criticize anybody - unless you work in the industries. Instead of it create boundaries and be assertive.
"I'll go to X house if you keep yelling with me. We will talk later."
Instead of: "You're a piece of shit for yelling at me."
[–]Fecund_Sweet 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Simple, and yet startlingly powerful advice. I feel like paring down interactions is the opposite of most people's instinct. But just doing what you said is what works.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not sure we’re on the same page when it comes to the word “criticize”. If someone suggests an idea at work I don’t like, I can disagree with their idea without criticizing them for coming up with the idea. Criticizing people is absolutely not necessary unless they are asking for feedback and they want you to be totally brutal. You can say “I don’t think that will work because of x,y,z.” Without adding “you’re a idiot for thinking that idea would work”. One is disagreeing the other is criticizing.
And as someone already said. You being taken advantage of has nothing to do with criticizing people. Those things are not direct opposites of each other.
I really hope you read this book again with a more open mind.
Yes, but if you were trying to persuade people for a particular end, it would still. Be good advice.
[–]appmanga 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's an old saying: "Once you can fake sincerity, you've got it made". We spent a lot of time faking kindness anyway, so why not spread the wealth? Flies, honey, vinegar...
[–]Substantial_Smell_72 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha 2 chapters? The only way to get better at socializing is to talk to everyone you encounter. It’s not about being fake it’s about putting in some effort during a conversation when it not natural for you. Eventually it does feel natural but that take a little effort to get to that point.
[–]jimmie-russler 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Doesn’t a most of the book emphasise the point of being genuine when you do the things in it? Been a while since I read it
[–]grizzled083 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If I recall there was some rule and it said the only thing worse than not using this rule is to use it disingenuously.
[–]Neonbluefox 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Keep in mind it's a book that was initially published in the 1930's. I feel that it's better to take the general message and mindset of the book to heart, rather than the actual tips as these aren't always as nuanced as they could be :)
[–]Fecund_Sweet 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly, nearly 100 years later, the world is radically different, especially in regard to communication. But human nature does not change, so the advice still applies.
[–]South_Recover_5909 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
no I find it extremely accurate when describing human nature, but its called how to win friends and influence people, not how to get laid and influence people
so those techniques wont work if your plan is to use them as a means to get women into bed
[–]DamnThisHappened 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
A lot has already been said but:
For me personally, I am a very confrontational person who believed that logical arguments can convince a person of your opinion. The book has taught me that people don’t react well to this and I try to approach people differently now, has worked well in professional situations
[–]dasanman69 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
When you do try to convince people that your side is right and there's is wrong is when their ego goes in hard and they only dig deeper into their position. A good trick is to tell them that you can definitely see why they think they way they do but your view differs. If you go to their side just a little you'll have more success coaxing them to yours.
[–]AloofusMaximus 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
believed that logical arguments can convince a person of your opinion
I'm sure your own experience showed you how that method seldom works. I often want to take a similar approach to you, it just doesn't work though
I think it was on a podcast I'd listened to (not totally sure), where a psychologist was talking about how people find things to support their already held beliefs. Or more simply... you're never going to change someone's opinion on something, they have to do that on their own.
That you even have this insight is a great thing. My father is that way. My mother used to ask him, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?" THere are people who are always going to say dumb shit, and it's tempting to want to say, "WTF are you talking about?" But it's usually pointless. You end up just beating your head against a wall.
[–]Anon6025 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The most important takeaway (of course it has been around 40 years since I read it) was that God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.
[–]zeroff89 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I see many valid arguments have already been posted here.
There’s another old saying: “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” A perfect example of this is constructive criticism.
During a social interaction you make the person or people you’re interacting with feel important by empowering them with your attention and body language. Facing the person talking and making eye contact while they talk makes them feel heard and validated. You don’t have to agree with what they say. You could have a perspective on the subject of the conversation that is completely opposite of theirs, and sharing that perspective cements the feeling of being genuine towards them without taking anything away.
An old general manager of mine once told me when talking to a person, for every negative point of criticism, give them two points of positive reinforcement
Unlike most of you I haven’t read this book. Is it worth reading?
[–]Fecund_Sweet 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ask, and ye shall receive...
[–]zeroff89 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you
Haven't finished it but the first part (not chapter but Part, as in a collection of chapters within the book) was pure gold...
[–]duarte2151 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
In how many different subs are you going to ask this question?
I think he really just wants to know if he should keep reading. If you're that curious, I would say, keep reading.
[–]CollectionResident63 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I read it as a teenager and that it was great. Never thought of it as teaching to you be disingenuous, so you need to read further to understand fully what it’s about. But yeah it’s just about getting what you need from people by addressing their needs first. I use this principle a lot in my dating life.
[–]Dutchcat1077 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You misunderstood the whole point of the book. Read the entire book.
If in doubt, read it out.
[–]FearInoculum37 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm so glad I am not the only one that got this vibe from the book. Everyone I know swears by it but I have the same view as you, OP. I had to put it down.
I get being kind to people but man....it just really rubbed me the wrong way and didn't do anything for me. I'm open to opposing opinions though....
Edit: Grammar.
[–]white_disc_4_holes 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
According to a lot of people here in this post, the book gives a general idea and gets better as we read further. So I'll continue reading it and take it all in but use it logically lol. I feel it's mainly for business people or sales people rather than for genuine friends.
[–]shaggy2gay 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Bad book that makes one good point: that most people see you as a supporting cast member in the drama of their life as Earth's protagonist.
[–]Fecund_Sweet 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How to win friends and influence people
How can you say it's bad when it offers such significant insight? That's how most people are. If you want them to like you and listen to you, you appeal to their ego.
Whether or not you like that doesn't have to do with the quality of the advice.
I hate selling. I hate selling things and I hate selling myself. But for someone who wants to sell, this is useful.
[–]shaggy2gay 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because it's badly written, with a bad philosophy, and encourages people to behave badly.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can be friendly and make people feel good - - without being fake.
[–]gregsapopin -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
That's what Seduction is about. being fake.
[–]zeroff89 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Why do you say seduction is about being fake?
Seduction requires you to create an emotional connection with another person. That connection stimulates their desire to know more about you. You empower them by being aware of their neglected needs and feed those building them up. Play a flirty game of cat and mouse to increase sexual tension and giggidy! “In bed by 8. Home by 11”
Seduction requires you to pay attention to the person, create a connection with them, build them up, and then make a subtle suggestion.
[–]gregsapopin 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What if I'm not interested in the emotional stuff?
[–]zeroff89 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It’s not about the emotional stuff. Making an emotional connection with another person is not about love or feelings. It’s about speaking to the the wants or desires they have and then selling those back to them. In dating when you make this connection it makes the person interested in you.
[–]gregsapopin 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
yeah, being fake.
Why do you think that is being fake?
[+]BoxNo3004 -6 points-5 points-4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Most of the "self improve" books are complete garbage that is not worth your time.
They were never written because they have something to say, they just saw market for it.
There are exceptions, of course, but i have not found one yet.
What books have you read yet?
Especially when it comes to women, if the message of the book is translated to supplication then it serves as terrible advice.
That is not the message of this work.
[–]TerminatorReborn 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A lot of succesful people come across a fake to me, so thats not unheard of
[–]PulcinoMeraviglioso 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I only read half book, and the only one very important thing that changed my perspective in conversations is to be genuinely interest in the other person, rather than speaking about yourself
BTW, the book is not about dropping panties. It sounds like you're looking for the key to getting women to want to sleep with you.
The book is about building rapport such that you get people on your side.
[–]AnomalousS0ul 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've never even heard of this book but I have a philosophy of my own. Manipulation is often referred as a negative thing. I dont believe that. I think you can manipulate people to do negative things, or you can manipulate them to reinforce your positive behavior and teach them a lesson about positivity. But youre basically being so positive through their negativity that they cannot break your attitude. After they're around you enough, even if they're hateful people they'll start to mimick you, because they'll see that others notice that you don't react to their negativity. This makes you an apex predator in putting yourself around people. Also acting outlandish, which is our true selves, makes people feel as though they can do that too. That is called charisma.
[–]joey-tv-show 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The book does work. In many aspects of life.
For example: don’t argue with your boss. Don’t correct your boss or anyone in public
[–]SithLordJediMaster 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No
[–]YourNewProphet 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You didn’t understand the book
I’d say keep reading it because that’s not the take away. It’s about being assertive and seeing the potential in people.
[–]vinit33pratap 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes, it is if you're inauthentic while communicating. That's why you're not going to do everything exactly that has been said in this book or any book for that matter and use your senses in context involved.
[–]vinit33pratap 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And you're asking this question is atleast right place to be.
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