"Has Feminism Gone Too Far?" MRA-hosted debate, September 23 in Vancouver, BC.

typhonblue · 2012-09-18T05:37:01+00:00

Relevant bits:

And then one of my friends decided to invite a couple of local men’s rights activists to a debate panel for a moderated discussion of whether or not feminism has gone “too far”, before successfully confirming any feminist speakers of the female sex.

She received hate mail and threats by private messages (which she will be reporting to police); and was publicly bullied, shamed, and silenced by a number of my friends and fellow activists. There was talk of boycotting and picketing the space in which the debate was to be held, and she was accused of perpetrating misogyny and hate-mongering by the very act of positing the question, “Has feminism gone too far?” and confirming the first two speakers for the affirmative side of the debate — a total panel of six people was being planned for the event: three for the affirmative (i.e., it’s gone too far), and three for the negative (i.e., it hasn’t gone too far as a whole; if anything, it hasn’t gone far enough). While some argued that this was creating a space to allow the airing of hatred, some (myself included) argued that this was creating an opportunity to give the affirmative side just enough rope to hang itself with (e.g., it’s now illegal to menstruate in Arizona because personhood begins at ovulation — how the fuck has feminism gone too far?) The event organizer has since cancelled it and deleted the event page itself.

Ultimately, what happened is exactly what men’s rights activists wanted to happen (what they would have done if we hadn’t beat them to it): feminists attacked each other* and shut down the opportunity to engage with local members of the men’s rights movement. Some made absolutely absurd arguments, showing any MRA who was watching that we don’t know how to respectfully disagree. And now they can complain that we aren’t committed to freedom of speech, too, or that we don’t respect democracy, and that we go too far to ensure that the men’s rights arguments are never heard. We’ve become our own trolls. Why do we even need MRAs if this is how we’re going to handle a debate we’re not interested in attending? Especially one which was clearly for the benefit of the greater public, not the feminist community members who have already heard the men’s rights arguments and know that the answer to the question being asked is a resounding NO.

I didn't even realize that the person who suggested this debate was a feminist who was against men's rights. JTO has only ever referred to her as 'heroic' so I thought she was at least neutral if not mra-leaning.

Curebores · 2012-09-18T05:40:23+00:00

She received hate mail and threats by private messages (which she will be reporting to police); and was publicly bullied, shamed, and silenced by a number of my friends and fellow activists. There was talk of boycotting and picketing the space in which the debate was to be held, and she was accused of perpetrating misogyny and hate-mongering by the very act of positing the question, “Has feminism gone too far?”

Heheh... I think she may have unwittingly got her answer, although it was probably not the one she wanted or expected...

typhonblue · 2012-09-18T05:23:25+00:00

Why are you linking to a feminist who is trying to make men's rights activists take responsibility for a man who would probably label them faggots if he had actually known they existed?

Perhaps you could quote the relevant bits so I don't have to wade through a bunch of outlandish claims.

yasee · 2012-09-18T23:30:23+00:00

I actually have an opportunity to go to this, but I'm afraid it's mostly going to attract The Crazies (both sides). I want to believe people can be civil, but after glancing over the fb event page I'm not so sure.

2012-09-19T04:28:47+00:00

In case no one has mentioned it, I would make sure to have security there, and probably notify police of the event as well.

EDIT: I hope there's well done video coverage as well. :3

fidelbogen · 2012-09-21T19:50:53+00:00

It is hard for me to piece together exactly what happened on this trainwreck of a thread.

ZimbaZumba · 2012-09-18T16:49:06+00:00

Be ready for them to break the meeting up. Have lots of video cams on hand.

typhonblue · 2012-09-18T05:35:18+00:00

it’s now illegal to menstruate in Arizona because personhood begins at ovulation

How is this different then a man effectively consenting to parenthood every time he ejaculates. Regardless of why he ejaculated or even if he consented to ejaculating?

Also, this appears to be hyperbole. Arizona is defining personhood at ovulation because fertilization is harder to determine and they're trying to figure out where to put the 20 week cut off period for abortions.

My god was that a bunch of shit stirring for the sake of stirring shit.

dupek11 · 2012-09-18T11:23:49+00:00

In case no feminists show up for the debate, ask a few MRA's to prepare in advance to play the devil's advocate and present the feminist's point of view. Let's not turn this debate into a MRA circlejerk.

Officially invite local human rights and feminist organisations to the debate.

Film everything just in case feminists show up to disrupt the debate.

owensounder · 2012-09-19T18:44:02+00:00

I predict a lot of white knights will show up to "help out" the female debaters. I'll be looking forward to video of the event :)

namae_nanka · 2012-09-18T09:49:50+00:00

sexual distinctions still exist, proof that feminism hasn't gone far enough.

"A wild wish has just flown from my heart to my head, and I will not stifle it, though it may excite a horse-laugh. I do earnestly wish to see the distinction of sex confounded in society ... For this distinction ... accounts for their [women] preferring the graceful before the heroic virtues."

"the exercise of which ennobles the human character, and which raises females in the scale of animal being .... all those who view them must, I should think, wish with me, that they [women] may every day grow more and more masculine."

from the grandmammy of feminism.

betaprime · 2012-09-18T16:11:21+00:00

It is said that sunlight is the best disinfectant.

mayonesa · 2012-09-19T23:23:33+00:00

She was then harassed and attacked by other feminists, and then cancelled the event.

Fear of letting MRAs speak.

Celda · 2012-09-28T15:39:43+00:00

[permanently deleted]

rightsbot · 2012-09-18T04:52:17+00:00

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VerySpecialSnowflake · 2012-09-18T17:55:46+00:00

I thought the MRAs were the ones issuing threats, based on the original organizer's statements?

root_of_penis · 2012-09-19T05:36:13+00:00

i hope you guys all realize that she had every right to pull out of this debate. the very question "Has Feminism Gone Too Far?" is very loaded and biased.

i belong to the debate club at my university and no one there would ever agree to debate such a loaded question. the question itself is designed to put one party on the defensive, instead of debating feminism vs. men's rights activism you now have a kangaroo trial where feminists are accused of a (very vague) crime of some sort and now the onus is on them to defend it.

i imagine the lady who agreed to this debate received a lot of flack from other feminists for agreeing to such a loaded and one-sided debate. she probably didn't realize it was stupid to accept such an invitation as the conditions are stacked against her side and it would be an uphill climb for her to engage in this debate, even if the audience and moderator were sympathetic (which i imagine they would not be in any way,) and her position was unassailable (which i believe it is.)

you guys need to think about these things more objectively instead of making so many blind assumptions.

Liverotto · 2012-09-18T09:15:55+00:00

We don't need any "women = gold digging sluts" "feminists = nazis who want to castrate all men" that do nothing except make MRAs look foolish.

Realism is now "foolish".

cthulufunk · 2012-09-18T19:16:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Celda · 2012-09-19T03:33:56+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ohreally101 · 2012-09-18T16:45:27+00:00

She was then harassed and attacked by other feminists, and then cancelled the event.

Source please? I've heard over and over that what actually happened in real life was that

She was then harassed and attacked by Mens Rights Activists, and then cancelled the event.

As the actual organizer herself explains,

I took the event down because of threats I had received from MRA members when I told them I was thinking of cancelling the event/changing the question. Having my Facebook account linked to here has reduced my safety from these men, who didn’t have my personal information as I was speaking with them over email. I have now had to cancel my FB profile which impacts my job seriously. Luckily I am in England right now so am safe. (http://jezebel.com/5941876/mens-rights-activists-shocked-that-their-misogynistic-posters-are-being-torn-down)

truthman2000 · 2012-09-18T05:30:19+00:00

We don't need any "women = gold digging sluts" "feminists = nazis who want to castrate all men"

How about these instead?

2012-09-18T16:49:09+00:00

He should host this somewhere on the UC Berkeley campus.

Title	"Has Feminism Gone Too Far?" MRA-hosted debate, September 23 in Vancouver, BC.
Author	Celda
Upvotes	84
Comments	106
Date	September 18, 2012 4:50 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/102cl2/has_feminism_gone_too_far_mrahosted_debate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/has-feminism-gone-too-far-mra-hosted-debate.1013304 https://theredarchive.com/post/1013304

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