Non-RP advice?

polyhooly · 2014-02-06T20:20:49+00:00

So, is part of TRP's problem just the language they use?

The language TRP uses is often dehumanizing to women: referring to women as bitches, whores, sluts, hamsters, whatever. This demonstrates in what regard TRP holds women from the get-go.

But I think the major problem of TRP's is the conclusions they draw. TRP does have many a kernels of truth to it, but then they take these kernels and make them into absurd, even cartoonish conclusions due to confirmation bias, the fundamental attribution error, and just plain letting your emotions cloud logic and rationality. An example of the fallacious conclusions TRP draws is many women react negatively to men placing them on a pedestal, worshiping the ground they walk on, treating as if they are some infallible goddess. This is true. However many members of TRP take this to believe that if women don't want you to be "nice," they must want to be treated like shit. So much of the advice given by TRP is straight up bullying. Another example, that has my jimmies rustled this afternoon, is the sincere belief that the only reason we have age of consent laws is due to elderly, post wall feminazis, you know, like 26 year olds, feeling intimidated by competition from pre-teens and young teens. No, TRP, that's not why we have age of consent laws. The absurd conclusions are my biggest complaint about TRP,.

[deleted] · 2014-02-06T20:24:40+00:00

I can't get past the jargon. They sound like a bunch of twats. I'm 100% sure it wouldn't work on me. But then I'm also fairly sure I'm not attractive enough to interest a PUA. Thank God!

[deleted] · 2014-02-06T20:14:11+00:00

I've said this elsewhere but I don't think RP is a "method" at all, it's a worldview (hence the name). The actual pick up advice is stuff that circulates elsewhere. The jargon is the point in many ways.

CFRProflcopter · 2014-02-06T21:12:35+00:00

So, is part of TRP's problem just the language they use? Do you all agree with this advice?

I think people object more to the assertions concerning women. PUA can be kinda funny at times and kinda useful at times, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.

What I object to is lumping women together into a single large group and saying "women behave like x because of y." PUA is fundamentally a heuristic strategy, and that's absolutely fine. Heuristics are necessary parts of all of our lives. That said, Heuristics are logical short cuts. They are not a substitution for fact and they are also not a substitution for logic. Going from "women seem to like this particular PUA tactic" to "therefore, women must be a certain way," that's using Heuristics in place of logic. It's essentially pseudoscience.

I might even say I'd encourage a struggling individual to look into some PUA stuff. I don't think that stuff can really hurt. However extrapolating your experiences with women into theories about gender dynamics is, IMO, ridiculous. If you're a PUA expert, then you're an expert at picking up women. You're NOT an expert on women, or gender, or gender dynamics, or biology.

twentyfoursevensex · 2014-02-06T21:43:41+00:00

The advice given in that comment is common advice and TRP really cannot claim ownership of any of it. It just seems funny to me that you point to the most basic of advice for being social and flirty as if that's proof of TRP.

If that's all TRP was, there wouldn't be an entire subreddit dedicated to making fun of the community.

IIHotelYorba · 2014-02-07T01:08:04+00:00

So, is part of TRP's problem just the language they use?

Yes, absolutely. This is something I've said again and again, in posts where I describe what X terminology would actually look like to the average guy. There are actually several "ex" pickup instructors who are recommended often by feminists because of how they present themselves.

Mark Manson used to have his highfalutin "Post-Masculine" (a term that shed light on the variation in high value traits around the world, and asked if we could define high value for ourselves) website which was a darling of many of those women. There'd always be the requisite preamble about how bad PUA is ...and then the meat of the article which would be about topics indistinguishable from inner game and cold approach, (the two irreducible elements of the PUA industry today) just worded with Oprah-ready terminology.

TRP doesn't have a monopoly on this advice

Well no, of course not. All game advice on TRP comes from the PUA industry, as much as they may express dislike for PUAs. (I personally think that's just holdover from Men's Rights talk) PUAs observed many things happening in the wild and appropriated it.

The difference to me lies in the specificity of BP vs PUA advice, and the amount of limiting beliefs BP people have, like

Obviously, if the girl is much taller than you and blonde and white and has fake tits, she just made eye contact with you by accident.

This is trash advice and very negative, to my mind.

Evolved_Red · 2014-02-06T20:30:36+00:00

The thing with TRP is it's stemmed from the pua/seduction community, but at a more advanced approach. Hence, the language is stemmed from the pua lingo.

The difference is, TRP focus a lot more on the actual 'manosphere' side of things and getting men to be liable for themselves especially n the dating game. This is the 'outcome independence' trope you speak of.

Sadly a lot of these messages get buried in favor of the less favourable RP content, stemmed from the influx of noobs who have no idea of the basic rules of attraction, let alone how to improve themselves as better men.

There is a belief of 'fake it till you make it', but these been others who've claimed to 'naturally develop confidence by taking up a skill and becoming good at it.' That's a long game though.

It's been mentioned before that the funny thing is about TRP language is, when it's advice we've given but using it with PC language, it's up voted through the roof. Go figure. Over in RP where testosterone is rampant, then the language will reflect it. We also promote freedm of speech here (unless it's too extreme of course.)

Abracadanielle · 2014-02-06T23:24:48+00:00

For me, yes, the language is a big part of the problem. It strikes me as unnecessarily hateful and also toxic. That's a large chunk of the criticism that I've seen against TRP. So much of the advice is common sense, why weigh it down and dilute it with misogyny?

alphabetmod · 2014-02-06T22:21:37+00:00

As a woman who has picked up every guy I've ever been with I can tell you it picking up men works very similar to what you have in your first quotes. You seek eye contact, you approach. Sometimes you approach anyways if they don't see you. You compliment the person and listen to what they have to say. With jokes or reactions you make it clear that you are interested.

I've never touched anyone during that initial phase though. I think that's just rude and very likely to go wrong. Doesn't matter if you call it kino or something else.

I also don't agree that the outcome shouldn't matter. That just seems callous and immature to me. Learn to deal with failure. I always got bummed out when I got turned down. That's just how life is, ups and downs. It's not the end of the world to get sad sometimes. Just don't get stuck in that frame of mind. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

I don't think "fake it until you make it" makes sense either. To the extent that you are unable to act like this naturally it's practice and about overcoming your fears. If you are scared of driving a car you don't "fake it until you make it". You challenge yourself and practice until you are not scared anymore.

The problem with TRP is simply that they think hooking up and fucking is something men do to women.

autoNFA · 2014-02-07T02:51:33+00:00

Oh for fuck's sake this is terrible advice. Just look at this line:

Obviously, if the girl is much taller than you and blonde and white and has fake tits, she just made eye contact with you by accident.

bullshit. it's like they're trying to undermine the reader's self-confidence from the get-go.

Jesus FUCK the "nonwhite men don't deserve hot women" REALLY pisses me off. I'm ethnically Indian. This cuntwipe is trying to screw me and everyone who looks like me over by telling us to settle for second choice.

If you can, you should probably lose your glasses

bullshit I look fuckin' fantastic in spectacles (and without, but I have the "hot nerd" look going for me with them)

No focus on how to improve his looks beyond maybe one or two throwaway lines.

This is why non-RP advice sucks.

jmikolash · 2014-02-06T21:04:09+00:00

If you need the truth bubble wrapped in safe language, are you worthy enough to receive it?

TRP community doesn't care if you like them. They don't care if you share their ideas. This isn't a marketing strategy. It's a group of men who need a philosophical guide post after they have been misled into utter dissatisfaction by prevailing femanist/white knight ideologies.

Women and their lapdogs don't need to like it. It is our haven away from manipulation, and it can't be stopped.

TehGinjaNinja · 2014-02-06T22:10:54+00:00

I'm not sure how I feel about the first part... does TRP advise a "fake it til to you make it strategy?"

You're thinking of 'PUA' Game. TRP does recommend learning game, but it also recommends genuine self improvement (see /r/becomeaman).

So, is part of TRP's problem just the language they use?

What problem are your talking about?

Do you all agree with this advice?

It's pretty good advice, it's just not complete. He doesn't say anything about how to build confidence (except to use alcohol). He doesn't directly address body language (which is more a matter of game than TRP). Things like that.

I'm reading this bestof'd comment and I'm seeing a lot of seemingly "RP" advice that may just seem generic because it lacks a bunch of fancy words and acronyms. Thoughts?

A lot of TRP comes down to things that would have been considered common sense just a few decades ago. The reason TRP has "a bunch of fancy words and acronyms" is because common sense has been marginalized in popular culture as sexist or out dated.

This for example:

initiate some other confident but non-threatening physical contact.

Would usually provoke some feminist screeching about how touching a woman without her explicit consent is assault.

TRP has to explain it's recommendations to counteract the social conditioning that many people have. This is why TRP has a heavy focus on theory, and why the titular metaphor for TRP is about counteracting a form of social programming. The OP's reaction is typical of how a lot of guys feel when they first encounter RP advice.

Title	Non-RP advice?
Author	alphabetmod
Upvotes	4
Comments	99
Date	February 6, 2014 7:05 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1x79r2/nonrp_advice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/non-rp-advice.286251 https://theredarchive.com/post/286251

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